The Bride of Christ .

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by GBzone, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. #1 GBzone, Feb 5, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
    This a subject rarely if ever taught or preached on save in the most fleeting way.
    For it is presumed by many and assumed by many and taught by many that as soon as you are BORNagain you are automatically in the Bride of Christ .
    This assertion is quite false and is due to jumping to conclusions rather than arriving at or "coming to a knowledge of the truth ".
    Let it be understood that EVERY true BORN child of God born again by the water /Word and Spirit of God are CALLED to that "high calling " But it will be found that not all are willing to pay the price to be so.
    But that is a negative and it is not my job or intention to point the finger but simply speak the truth and let it fall and sow and produce where it may .
    I cannot nor do I think that what follows is an exhaustive rendition on the subject. But at the very least should give any spiritual man some food for thought and to consideration and provoke their own research on the matter and for any who are asleep to wake up to the hour in which we live and to the challenge of that calling.

    Where does one start on such a subject? Not at the end Im thinking .But at the beginning .
    and to the book of beginnings where the seed and root of all that follows and has its fulfilment and harvest in the last book will be found.
    For I would warrant that every "sound doctrine " to be found in the Bible will have its seed and root in the first book and its development and revelation in all that follow .
    So with them so then with this one as well.

    So with Gods help and with careful thought let us go to the FIRST Adam.
    Gen 2:20 There was not found a help meet for him.
    Gen 2:21 and God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept ........

    Now Jesus was called the "the last Adam." In that he was called the last Adam he was then likened unto the first .
    But in reality it is the other way round . For the first Adam "who is a figure of that which was to come" Romans 5:14
    "For the first was made a living soul the last a quickening Spirit " 1 Cor 15.45.
    Somewhere in the scriptures he is also called the second Adam though I cannot at this moment find it .
    you may now be asking what has this to do with the Bride of Christ ?
    It has much to do with it .

    For the first Adam was given a Bride or a help meet for him.
    So also is the last Adam given a Bride .
    and the first Adams bride came from where?
    From the midst of his body . Not from the dust of the earth.
    She was not the whole body of Adam but came from the midst of his body after a deep sleep.
    The bride of Christ will not come from the world or the dust of the earth .But from the midst of his own body .
    Not all his body but a body out of a body.
    and bone of his bone and dare we say it ; having the same heart and mind as the groom.

    The deep sleep of Adam echos the death of Christ .

    The difference between the two is that as Paul warns the church today "to whom the ends of the world has come" and speak of his concerns that the church might be deceived as Eve was?
    The Bride of Christ will not be deceived having learnt from the past not to lean upon her own understanding and perceptions but "to lean upon her beloved "
    Solomon 6:10 and compare song of Solomon 8:5

    Now a sound doctrine is neither proved or established by just one verse .Even if that verse clearly states it . No where in scripture does it encourage the use of 'proof texts'
    But rather by the example of Paul in particular the use of Biblical argument ,The finest examples being the letter to the Hebrews and Romans funnily enough .
    Jews and Gentiles.
    So the above is but the start of an argument that needs must be substantiated by other scripture found in diverse ways and times where it is spoken of .

    This by the grace of God I hope to do.

    in Christ
  2. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
  3. Do you mean that you are simply wishing to arrive at the end before you have got past the beginning? and so have no idea what I am trying to say ?
    I am simply laying the foundations to a mans understanding of what the Bride of Christ is as it si taught in all scripture.
    If I have said something that is not understood then say so .
    For I am not trying to say anything .I have simply said it .
    The foundations are not the building . But they do give shape and form to what is built on it .
    The truth starts with the truth and line upon line precept upon precept it is built with the truth till the hole house is built .

    So you will need to explain yourself if I have no answered you already.

    in Christ
  4. No offense, but you bury your intent in too many words. Brevity is the soul of wit.
  5. Your 2nd adam is in 1 Cor 15:45-47. This is what happens when we mix translations together.

    1Co 15:47 kjva The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    1Co 15:47 gnb The first Adam, made of earth, came from the earth; the second Adam came from heaven.

    Second Adam is not mentioned in Greek or the KJV.

    The new city is called the Bride.

    2 Cor 11:2 and Eph 5 are read by some I guess in the pentecoastal groups wrong.

    We can't be a "Bride" and be the "Body" of Christ.Jesus is not going to Marry himself.

    There is no term in Scripture that says "Bride of Christ" and if it's not in scripture, then why believe it?
  6. None taken.
    But I do not believe that asserting truth means that you help anybody arrive at the truth and be fully convinced in their own heart and mind of it.
    A house is not built in a day .
    and if you don't lay the foundations it will not stand for long and if truth is not laid in the mind and heart with foundations then it too will not abide either . For a sower went out to sow and some fell on stony ground and it sprung up speedily but when offence or persecution came it withered away fro it had no deep roots .
    So while brevity is the soul of wit.
    It is in the main not good for the souls lasting profit in this case.
    Im talking about the Bride of Christ and even if you are not aware of it .I am ;that there is a lot of error taught and perceived about the subject .
    I wish to prem empt then a lot of misunderstandings as well as undermine error at the same time .
    This may then be for you burdensome .But is needful for others.

    in Christ
  7. #7 GBzone, Feb 5, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
    Thanks for that .The first man was and is clearly the first Adam and of the earth .The Second man and clearly the second Adam is from heaven.

    As the KJV is the more accurate then man it is . But that in no way detracts from the fact that ther eis the first Adam made a living soul and the last a quickening spirit .
    and the first man of earth and the second from heaven .
    Nor does it contradict or is not in any way out of harmony with all of scripture .
    For in being called the second man or Adam he is likened unto the first but between the first and the second there was no other .
    and ion being called the last Adam or man there is no other after him .

    As to your last point.
    Was no Eve OF his body and not of the EARTH? and was she not made his bride?
    Then the Bride of Christ like the first will have a bride not of the EARTH but of his body.
    and the Bride of the first was made or was a body out of a body and was not himself and the two became one .
    So then the Bride of Christ was made or is a body out of the midst of a body and was not himself either and the two shall become one .
    But this principle and pattern of a body out of a midst of a body is repeated . again and again. But will come to that anon.
    I am not one for using a multitude of 'translations' for the subtlety of their differences makes for confusion and error .
    As to the term the Bride of Christ . There are so many scriptures for the term the Bride and indeed the Groom that can only be understood as referring to both Christ and his bride or the church .
    The reference as the new Jerusalem descending as a Bride . is not disputed .
    But we are jumping the gun in any case and would rather arrive there at the proper place and time

    in Christ
  8. While I understand your connection, and the use of the Greek, If nobody else understands then what point are you telling them.

    Many believe the body of Christ is actually female and a bride.
    One becomes a bride as soon as your born again.

    Even women I know have said, "Jesus is My Husband"

    You go on to say, this is False................

    Then you go into a complicated thing that most won't be able to follow.

    Now if you believe that you are some bride of some kind and read up to the part you said it was false, then lots of folks stop there assuming you don't believe we are the bride of anything.

    At the bottom though, you say the Bride of Christ will come.............

    If someone read that far, then they certainly won't fully understand how you go from it being false to it not being false.

    We can compare lots of scriptures with other scriptures to get the so called "Full" picture.
    The Church is never compared to Eve, not one time.
    We don't compare to Eve to be decieved in anyway, for it is written He is more than able to present us without spot or blemish.
    The Gates of hell can't prevail.
    I could go on............

    So, the real body, (Not the jokers that fell into stupid doctrines) will not be decived and know the devices of the enemy. Eve being the real wife bought into Satans lie, Hook, Line and sinker.

    Jesus used wedding parables, to explain spiritual concepts. Paul never says a thing about the Church being any bride, nowhere mentioned the Church is a bride, but we have something to compare.

    Husbands, Love your wife, As Christ loved the Church.
    Not Husbands, Love your wife as Christ loves her as a wife.

    Rev 21:9 kjva And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

    Scripture is going to clearly show us who this Bride is. The Lamb of God's bride, the Lord Jesus's Bride, the Bride of Christ.

    Rev 21:10 kjva And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

    Rev 21:2 kjva And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    Isa 54:5 kjva For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

    So, when we have direct scriptures that show us clearly who this bride is, who the husband is, then we don't take a bunch of scriptures and try to make them fit something they don't.

    We don't take direct scriptures that tell us one thing, and use other scriptures that are not direct and say it's another.
  9. I am not going to get too deeply doing this piecemeal . But will add to what I have first written. That will show that this Bride is a body out of a body and is the church holy sanctified.
    "many believe that the body of Christ is actually female and a bride "
    "What many believe " does not mean it is true . For the truth is not democratic .
    Nor does the Bible sustain such a belief .
    What the scriptures do sustain and Paul teaches " is a mystery" for while he was talking about the practical aspects of a husband and wife he was actually talking "about Christ and the church ."
    So you cannot reduce it to a carnal understanding of male and female .
    "One becomes a bride as soon as you are BORNagain"
    That I am seeking to show is false . Your CALLED to that high calling when you are BORNagain. But that too will be shown anon.
    "Every woman I know says Jesus is my husband"
    Well spiritually a man can say that as well in theory .
    But then Jesus when his mother according to his flesh sought to talk with him while he was teaching in a house .Denied his flesh and said in effect his true mother and bretheren were those who did the will of God!
    It is easier to understand how I can be his brother .
    For he taught us to pray "OUR Father ..." and a brother is one of the same household and of the same father . A neighbour is of another household and of another father .
    That is on the face of it straight forward . But how then can I be his mother ?
    In the same way spiritually as Mary was His mother of his flesh .
    Inso far as she received the promise and the Word of God which was conceived gestated and then brought forth Christ .
    So too then or in likeness a person receives the promise and the Word of God that is sown in the heart it is conceived gestated and in due time the new life is manifested.

    The reason why I say it is false or an assumption will become more apparent as I go on .
    You assume most people wont be able to follow my argument because of its complication? How is it complicated so far ? and who cannot follow the argument ?
    I simply so far have shown that The Lord is called the last Adam. and in another the second man or Adam from heaven.
    If then he is called an Adam he is therefore likened unto the first Adam. if then we look at the first who is " a figure of Him that was to come " Even like a foreshadow gives an outline of the substance so then looking at the first Adam we may in some measure get an understanding of that which is to come and recognise it/him.
    If then the first Adam had a bride .So too then as will be shown the last Adam has one also and by the same token as the Bride of the first Adam was not created from the dust of the earth but out of the body of the first Adam .
    So then the bride of the last Adam will not be taken from the world but from the body also .
    This too can be seen to be a pattern of teaching in scripture .
    So I do not accept that "most wont be able to follow " and if something is not understood or needs clarification I will do my best to give it .
    What I said was false was the teaching or projection of the idea that as soon as you are BORN again you are automatically in the Bride . What I have said and will prove is that every new BORN child of God is CALLED to that end and to that "high calling"
    You have simply held onto that which is false and argued from it.
    But as I said before I am not going to waste time arguing to prove it is false but rather by speaking the truth show how false it is and people can adjust their thinking accordingly .

    Again you seek to want me to jump to the end or put the roof on when the foundations are not fully laid yet .
    This I cannot nor will do .
    It is line upon line precept upon precept .
    Thus you start with the truth and with each step speak the truth and if any man does so it is self evident that the same man or you if you are willing to follow will arrive at the truth or come to a knowledge of the truth and to the same conclusion as I have being led also to it .
    But men who jump to conclusions never arrive at the truth .
    The church was warned by Paul or he was concerned that it did NOT be deceived like Eve .
    "The arm of flesh will fail you " Eve that was of the flesh did .
    The Bride will not.
    Simply because she will walk by faith and not by sight and lean not upon her own understanding and her own perceptions but upon the arm of her beloved . As a Bride terrible as an army with banners coming out of the wilderness of this world .
    But again we are jumping ahead of ourselves .

    In Christ

  10. To add and expand the thought of scripture.
    If The Lord is called the last Adam and the second man from heaven .
    Then he is another 'ADAM' in likeness.
    Adam that was of the earth was the father of this 'generation' insofar as that all men from him to this day are born of HIS seed .
    and thus BORN subject to sin and death and predestined to condemnation and hell .
    For the wages of sin is death ,The soul that sinneth it shall die .
    and according to that that law of God that's says every seed will bring forth fruit after its kind .So then we and all men born of Adams seed are predestined to bring forth corruption unto death .
    It is vital then that "men every where should repent " not only of what they have done but also of what they are. Sinners.
    "For unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish"
    The words of Jesus then "ye MUST be BORN again" was not an option nor was it something you can do in your own time and at your leisure . But it was an imperative a command and a demand from God .
    For while man was CREATED in the image of God . He is BORN in the image of Adam .or "shapen in iniquity"
    He needs must then be BORN again.
    and be translated not only" from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Gods dear son " But also from one predestination to another .
    For the law that says EVERY seed shall bring forth fruit after its own kind that will predestine a corrupted seed to bring forth corruption unto death .
    Also applies to "the incorruptible seed which is the word of God"
    and if a corrupt seed is predestined to bring forth corruption unto death .
    So then an incorruptible seed is predestined to bring forth righteousness unto life.

    We needs must then be BORNagain of that incorruptible seed which is the Word of God .
    So as we are BORN of the first Adam which is of the earth . So then we are or needs must be BORNagain of the second and last Adam which is of heaven.
    The first Adam was created in the image of God .
    That image was lost or marred by sin .
    and we are BORN in the image of Adam. Gen 5:3.
    But the last Adam was and is "the express image of the living God "
    Who came "to seek and to save that which was lost "
    Thus when Christ is born in our hearts that image of God is and can be found once again in us .
    and we are no longer by nature "children of disobedience " but have by our" obedience to the gospel" made children of obedience and true children of God made conformable to HIM and as we have born the image of the earthy so also we will bare the image of the heavenly ." I Cor 15 :49
    and have put on the new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him. Col 3:10
    2Cor 3:18 is also noteworthy .
    Is it any wonder then that those who have relegated the first few chapters of Genesis to simply a myth or a metaphore or symbolic of ;or stories that have no foundation in reality go so far amiss ?
    For God is a God of order and not of confusion .
    The road to the cross did not start at Bethlehem but with the opening salvo and words "let there be light"
    and words being what they are they can only be said one word at a time . and as such albeit Gods will and intention even from before the foundations of the world was already set and perfect .
    Its manifestation and revelation can and could only be done in the order he so gave it by inspiration of the Holy Spirit .
    and as words are expressions of thought then the Word of God must and should be honoured as the expression of the mind of God .
    The account then of the first few chapters of Genesis as it is so written needs to be believed and understood for what it is .The very foundations of our faith or "THE faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints"
    For all that is laid in those first few chapters and all that is sown in them has its fulfilment and harvest not only in all that follows but ultimately in the last book above all .

    in Christ
  11. Everyone "MUST" be born again.

    What you write is still complicated, and I suspect someone without tons of scripture knowledge will get lost in what your trying to say.

    From what I gathered..........

    Just being born again does not make you a bride, but following the will and plan of God.

    Paul was concerned with the Church in Corinth that they like Eve might be led astray.

    However, the Church did no such thing, but Paul found them doing well. It was the Galatians that Paul even wondered if they had been Bewitched to take back up the practices of the law.

    I also have an issue with God's plan from the start, the start of Faith found in Gen that Adam was to produce corruptible seed, then you infere that man must believe, must be born again.

    Adam did not have a choice and we do? I am not fully understanding what you think about the "Whole" plan God had from the start.

    As concerning the Bride, there are till zero scripture saying the Church is the bride of Christ.

    I did give you scripture that showed who the bride is, and who God considers his Wife. I am not sure how shadows of putting things together can over ride what we are told.

    The bride of the lamb is the new city, I am not sure how the scripture can word it more clear, and in Isa we are told Jeruslam is the wife of God. For He is their Husaband.
  12. #12 GBzone, Feb 7, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
    "If you have an issue with Gods plan to start with "
    We will not get very far in any event .
    and given that God is both good and righteous in all his ways .
    Then clearly it is your perception and understanding of Gods will that is wrong rather than Gods will and plan that si wrong .
    In all fairness .
    The plan of salvation was not some knee jerk reaction to the devil putting a spoke in Gods creation.
    Just on the foundation of that scripture that the first Adam was a figure of Him that was to come .
    You cannot blame God for giving man of the earth to go first as you cannot blame Abraham for Lots bad choices and giving Lot first choice .
    Indeed God gave Adam everything possible it was to give at that time NOT to die but to live .

    As for getting lost it is with having to answer a lot of posts that the posters want to jump ahead rather than have the patience to follow the argument that has "complicated it "
    Indeed what Initialy said can be followed by anybody with a Bible and a concordance .
    in Christ

    in Christ
  13. Then Adam being the first of what was yet to come (and we can look at scriptures like Christ forordained before the foundation of the world (Pet)

    I gues then if Adam got the 1st label before being put in the Garden, knowing a 2nd would show up. Then God must not be all that good, or even plan that well.

    That can't be the case, can it?

    So, then Adam must have gotten his 1st label after chowing down on the fruit God told him not to eat.

  14. Lord we are Your church

    The bride prepared for You

    Nothings borrowed

    Nothings blue

    Nothings old

    All is new

    Clothed in linen

    Pure and white

    Pleasing fragrance

    Beautiful sight

    Shes the bride prepared

    For the Lords delight

    She longs to be taken home
  15. As I said if you do not believe God to start with we are not going to get anywhere.

    In Christ
  16. I am not full of unbelief, and believe God. Your pretty arrogant to think I don't believe God. It's not God, It's your uderstanding I am trying to grasp. I have never had anyone accuse me of not believing God until now.

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