The Bible Speaks Of Only One Way To Eternal Salvation

[Roads]

Scripture makes it very clear that Christ had no intention of destroying the law. It was His goal all along to fulfill the law through His finished work for mans redemption. The moral law of the Sabbath has not been compromised by the changing of the day of worship. Rather the law has been fulfilled in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

That is a very good explanation, Major, I'll just add in a few thoughts.

The fourth commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), as Brother Paul points out, says that all you have to do to honor the Sabbath is not work. That's it -- it's not the one day you set aside for worship; we do (and they did) that every day! This commandment is really more of a gift to us: rest.

But then there is the obvious question: what's work?

A Rabbi's interpretation of the law was called his "yoke." Because people wanted to know whether or not they were breaking the law by doing certain things on the Sabbath, the Rabbis made a lot of rules about what work is and what it isn't. If you, as a Hebrew, followed a particular Rabbi, you took on his yoke by which to understand the law.

Jesus said in Mat 11:29-30, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

So who's your Rabbi?

One Rabbi may say that we must rest only on Saturday, another may say we must rest on Sunday. Our Rabbi Jesus says He gives us rest - every day. But a different kind of rest that anyone under the law ever knew was possible: an easy yoke and a light burden, rest for your soul.

As you pointed out, Major, Paul says in Hebrews 4:9-10 "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his."

We should never read this statement as Paul overwriting the law. Instead, if we agree that Paul wrote as inspired by the Spirit, then we should instead read this is Jesus, our Rabbi, speaking through Paul to instruct us about how He wants us to read the law. And so, if we are disciples of Jesus, we take on his yoke, learning from Him, reading the law as he instructs us to read it.

It is truly amazing what Jesus does here -- when men wanted to know how to follow the fourth commandment, they turned to the Rabbis, who wrote even more laws to try to define what "rest" really is. If we look to our Rabbi Jesus' teaching about how to follow the fourth commandment, He says, "Find your rest in Me." Incredible.

 

[Major]

That is a very good explanation, Major, I'll just add in a few thoughts.

The fourth commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), as Brother Paul points out, says that all you have to do to honor the Sabbath is not work. That's it -- it's not the one day you set aside for worship; we do (and they did) that every day! This commandment is really more of a gift to us: rest.

But then there is the obvious question: what's work?

A Rabbi's interpretation of the law was called his "yoke." Because people wanted to know whether or not they were breaking the law by doing certain things on the Sabbath, the Rabbis made a lot of rules about what work is and what it isn't. If you, as a Hebrew, followed a particular Rabbi, you took on his yoke by which to understand the law.

Jesus said in Mat 11:29-30, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

So who's your Rabbi?

One Rabbi may say that we must rest only on Saturday, another may say we must rest on Sunday. Our Rabbi Jesus says He gives us rest - every day. But a different kind of rest that anyone under the law ever knew was possible: an easy yoke and a light burden, rest for your soul.

As you pointed out, Major, Paul says in Hebrews 4:9-10 "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his."

We should never read this statement as Paul overwriting the law. Instead, if we agree that Paul wrote as inspired by the Spirit, then we should instead read this is Jesus, our Rabbi, speaking through Paul to instruct us about how He wants us to read the law. And so, if we are disciples of Jesus, we take on his yoke, learning from Him, reading the law as he instructs us to read it.

It is truly amazing what Jesus does here -- when men wanted to know how to follow the fourth commandment, they turned to the Rabbis, who wrote even more laws to try to define what "rest" really is. If we look to our Rabbi Jesus' teaching about how to follow the fourth commandment, He says, "Find your rest in Me." Incredible.

Excellent Roads! It is for me, simply overpowering that God would do that for ME.
Thank you for the kind words and I always enjoy reading your comments brother.

 

[Bro.tan]

I can't necessarily agree or disagree with that explanation of that passage without knowing more about what you mean when you say it. What's the practical application of that in a Christian's life?

If there is no law, there is no sin!

 

[Bro.tan]

I apologize in advance for this long post. I do not like long posts myself but I did not see anyway to answer my brother Tan's point with a short answer.

Hebrews 4:9-10........
"So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his."

The majority of Christians worship on Sunday the 1st day of the week. Muslims worship on the 6th day of the week and Jews on the 7th day or the Mosiac Sabbath Saturday. You being a "Judizer" believe that Saturday is your day of worship. Wonderful!!!

So then why did the early church of the New Test. change the day of worship from the 7th to the 1st???????
What about God's moral law????
Does our decision completely disregard the fourth commandment?????

Good questions are they not? Aren't they at the heart of what you are trying to point out Tan?
Well lets see what we can do about answering your concerns.

1.
Why was the change from the 7th to the 1st day of the week?
Until the resurrection of Christ, the church observed its day of worship and rest on the 7th day, Saturday or the Sabbath. Some people and obviously you are one that believes the church has abandoned the 4th commandment altogether.

The simplest thing to point out here is that the New Testament church immediately began to worship on the 1st day of the week after Jesus's resurrection. With this ultimate act of love, Christ fulfilled His mission as God's chosen Sacrifice to restore sinful people to God's perfect (complete) redemption. Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the 1st day of the week and His first appearance to the saints after His resurrection was on the 1st day of the week. Jesus appeared to His disciples on the evening of the first day of the week.

John 20:19.....
"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

Now then, we must ask ourselves......was this a coincidence or a pattern being set?

Personally I do not believe in coincidences at all but instead believe in the plan and will of God. ****Watch this****
One of the disciples was missing on that 1st Sunday. Always the skeptic, Thomas could not hide his doubt when the others reported Jesus' appearance. BUT we learn from the Word of God that it wasn't until the NEXT FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK that Jesus chose to return and disclose Himself to Thomas.

John 20:26.....

"Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

Coincidence or a pattern being set???

It seems fitting to me to worship on the 1st day of the week in celebration of Christ's resurrection and His giving to us the promise of eternal life through His shed blood. If it was not for His death and resurrection we would still be in our sin and be on our way to hell. We are saved by the death and resurrection of Jesus, not by His birth or His sinless life.

2.
Is this change consistent with the validity of the moral law?

Let me remind Brother Tan and others that it is Biblical suicide to suggest that the idea of Sabbath rest was presented for the first time in the 4th commandment. God spent 6 days in Creation and having finished, He rested on the 7th day. He created man on the 6th day in His image and there was nothing lacking, His work was complete. At that point of perfection God called man into His rest. The problem is that perfection did not last very long in the garden. Perfection was sacrificed in the name of FREE CHOICE and sin entered the world. Once Adam and Eve made the choice to disobey God and go their own way, the option to enter God's REST was impossible. God's attitude toward humanities sin condition is seen in His Word.........

Psalms 95:10-11
"For forty years I loathed that generation and said, “They are a people who go astray in their heart, and they have not known my ways.” 11 Therefore I swore in my wrath, “They shall not enter my rest.”

The same declaration is made in Hebrews 3:11. The reference of Psalms 95 within Hebrews tells us that the rest is God's rest, not ours. Specific reference is made to God's rest on the 7th day in Hebrews 4:3-4.....

"For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

It was never God's intention to enter the 7th day rest alone. He created us to be His intimate companions and enjoy His finished work of creation in all of its glory. But because of our sinful, rebellious and disobedient condition, Christ was the only hope for this to ever become anything more than a longing in God's heart. So then the key to understanding what this is all about is found in Hebrews 4:9-10.......

"So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his."

The resurrection of Christ made it possible for us who believe in Him to enter the rest that had been waiting for us since creation.

3.
Does the changing of days to worship, undermine the 4th commandment?

NO! Scripture makes it very clear that Christ had no intention of destroying the law. It was His goal all along to fulfill the law through His finished work for mans redemption. The moral law of the Sabbath has not been compromised by the changing of the day of worship. Rather the law has been fulfilled in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul is talking about another rest in Hebrews 4 chapter, not the weekly Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, that's another lesson for another time. Jesus says... Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets

Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about jesus and what he had to do.

First of all, all is not fulfilled, lets look at this again
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

In (John 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (2) Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. So at this point Jesus was gone before Sunday morning, it was still dark. Lets take another look at this.

Now it says in (Luke 24:1) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (2) And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. (3) And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (4) And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: (5) And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? (6) He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Again, Jesus was gone, and they came early on the first day of the week and we know that's Sunday.


Lets take a look at what Jesus did on the seventh day of the week in Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 4:16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. So your customs should be the same as Jesus...correct????

 

[Major]

Tan,

While you say, "All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life.", the Bible says, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Gal 2:16 In fact I would say to you, "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4

And "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about— but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness APART FROM WORKS"

When Jesus responded to the man who asked "What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", he was responding to a man who thought himself good. In contrast Jesus responded, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." To convict the man of sin he repeated the Old Covenant requirement for salvation - namely to keep the commandments. "the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24,25

Rom 3:20 "No one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

What you're preaching is the same as that of the false brethren Paul dealt with in Acts 15 and Galatians who said that to be saved one must obey the commandments. It is not the New Covenant of salvation by faith alone (John 3:16), but the Old Covenant.

Yes. It is the teaching of the "Judizers" who said that the death and resurrection of Jesus was not enough to save and keep man saved. They said that we had to keep the law in addition to the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Bro.tan]

Tan,

While you say, "All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life.", the Bible says, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Gal 2:16 In fact I would say to you, "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4

And "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about— but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness APART FROM WORKS"

When Jesus responded to the man who asked "What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", he was responding to a man who thought himself good. In contrast Jesus responded, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." To convict the man of sin he repeated the Old Covenant requirement for salvation - namely to keep the commandments. "the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24,25

Rom 3:20 "No one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

What you're preaching is the same as that of the false brethren Paul dealt with in Acts 15 and Galatians who said that to be saved one must obey the commandments. It is not the New Covenant of salvation by faith alone (John 3:16), but the Old Covenant.

I understand where the confusion is.God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning. Lets take another look at Galatian 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. This is true, but the works of the law Paul is talking about here is not the commandments. Paul is talking about the works of the animal sacrificial law.


Lets go into (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself. (v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). (v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law. How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus. (v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law only.

 

[Silk]

Bro - Given that I am not the first to say "the emperor has no clothes on", I am wondering if you read what you have written? Do you really think that Christ only came to relinquish the animal sacrifice part of the law?

 

[Major]

I understand where the confusion is.God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning. Lets take another look at Galatian 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. This is true, but the works of the law Paul is talking about here is not the commandments. Paul is talking about the works of the animal sacrificial law.


Lets go into (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself. (v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). (v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law. How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus. (v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law only.

Being the second to respond to your comments Tan after my friend Silk......."Do you read what you write???????"

Now I know where the confusion lies...............with YOU my brother!
I understand where the confusion is.

You just wrote..............
"God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing."

Seriousely?? Are you kidding me???

Peter says that what Paul wrote was SCRIPTURE! He goes on to say that Paul wrote of truth in depth. He certainly did that my friend and IMHO Peter did the very same thing in his own Epistle.

CONTEXT........You did not quote verse 17 which tells us.........
"Ye therfore beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED fall from your own stedfastness".

Peter and Paul AGREE! There is no easy way to change your life . We must seriousely study the Word of God not just a verse here and a verse there.

You must know and realize that Paul and his apostleship was attacked by the Judizers and it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.
The Judizers said that Paul was a new guy, a come along suddenly man and was not one of the 12. He was not with Christ during HIs ministry but came along recently. with new idea. PETER is confirm Paul not disagreeing with him.

Gal. 3:5..........."doeth he it by works of the law, or by hearing of faith". No mention of animals sacrifices my friend.

The promise concerning Christ was made to Abraham before the Mosaic Law was given and that promise holds as good as though there had been no law given at all. The promise was made irrespective of the Law.

Why then was the Law given? What was the purpose?

Gal. 3:19 tells us the answer.......The Law was given because of transgressions...SIN! It was given to reveal SIN not to remove sin and that speaks to the Moasic Law NOT animal sacrifices.

The Law was not given to keep man from sin but to show man as a crude sinner in front of God.

 

[Bro.tan]

Being the second to respond to your comments Tan after my friend Silk......."Do you read what you write???????"

Now I know where the confusion lies...............with YOU my brother!
I understand where the confusion is.

You just wrote..............
"God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing."

Seriousely?? Are you kidding me???

Peter says that what Paul wrote was SCRIPTURE! He goes on to say that Paul wrote of truth in depth. He certainly did that my friend and IMHO Peter did the very same thing in his own Epistle.

CONTEXT........You did not quote verse 17 which tells us.........
"Ye therfore beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED fall from your own stedfastness".

Peter and Paul AGREE! There is no easy way to change your life . We must seriousely study the Word of God not just a verse here and a verse there.

You must know and realize that Paul and his apostleship was attacked by the Judizers and it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.
The Judizers said that Paul was a new guy, a come along suddenly man and was not one of the 12. He was not with Christ during HIs ministry but came along recently. with new idea. PETER is confirm Paul not disagreeing with him.

Gal. 3:5..........."doeth he it by works of the law, or by hearing of faith". No mention of animals sacrifices my friend.

The promise concerning Christ was made to Abraham before the Mosaic Law was given and that promise holds as good as though there had been no law given at all. The promise was made irrespective of the Law.

Why then was the Law given? What was the purpose?

Gal. 3:19 tells us the answer.......The Law was given because of transgressions...SIN! It was given to reveal SIN not to remove sin and that speaks to the Moasic Law NOT animal sacrifices.

The Law was not given to keep man from sin but to show man as a crude sinner in front of God.

Once again...I just teach the uncut word of God, according to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. You guy are welcome to disagree or agree, I just put forth the truth from the Bible. Again, Paul said in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. Which mean we can do as we please when we please! People we must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. But now you are going to try and convince yourselves that the creator of the world has no laws by which we must live. Paul said in (Rom. 5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. If there is no law, there is no sin! In (1Cor. 14:37) If any man thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. Paul didn’t come preaching and teaching his own thing, but he abided in the doctrine of Christ. (Rom. 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sights for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
This is true because the blood of Jesus can only justify us. But does this make the law void? God forbid. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

 

[Major]

Once again...I just teach the uncut word of God, according to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. You guy are welcome to disagree or agree, I just put forth the truth from the Bible. Again, Paul said in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. Which mean we can do as we please when we please! People we must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. But now you are going to try and convince yourselves that the creator of the world has no laws by which we must live. Paul said in (Rom. 5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. If there is no law, there is no sin! In (1Cor. 14:37) If any man thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. Paul didn’t come preaching and teaching his own thing, but he abided in the doctrine of Christ. (Rom. 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sights for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
This is true because the blood of Jesus can only justify us. But does this make the law void? God forbid. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

Well, I have to disagree with you because your understanding is wrong. I admire your zeal but that does make for truth.

You are in fact a "Judaizer". You can say whatever you want, quote any Scripture you choose, but in the end you are saying that the blood of Jesus is not enough to save man and to keep him saved.

That is wrong, it is error and there is simply nothing else I can say to you. You have rejected every one's advice and your agenda is clear.

 

[Silk]

Original sin, in the Garden of Eden, preceded the Law, as given by Moses. No one is claiming the Law, should be thrown out, else we would not say Christ is the fulfillment of the Law. Believing in Christ, means all sin (original) is forgiven. Christ supercedes the Law.

 

[Major]

Original sin, in the Garden of Eden, preceded the Law, as given by Moses. No one is claiming the Law, should be thrown out, else we would not say Christ is the fulfillment of the Law. Believing in Christ, means all sin (original) is forgiven. Christ supercedes the Law.

Excellent point!

 

[Ravindran]

Original sin, in the Garden of Eden, preceded the Law, as given by Moses. No one is claiming the Law, should be thrown out, else we would not say Christ is the fulfillment of the Law. Believing in Christ, means all sin (original) is forgiven. Christ supercedes the Law.

But wasn't there even at the time of Garden of Eden? "Do not eat the fruit from that tree". This was the law. It was simple. Without law, sin cannot be defined. That's my understanding. Mosaic law was expanded as Israel was called out as a nation to serve the Lord

 

[Silk]

But wasn't there even at the time of Garden of Eden? "Do not eat the fruit from that tree". This was the law. It was simple. Without law, sin cannot be defined. That's my understanding. Mosaic law was expanded as Israel was called out as a nation to serve the Lord

Mosaic Law includes (614?altogether) dietary laws, which made sense for the time but does no longer. It included hygiene laws, which again, no longer applies.

Disobedience to God has it's consequences but they were only given one "rule" - don't eat from that tree or you will surely die. All sin came from eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Once we knew evil, evil multiplied until God had a flood. Starting again, with Noah, evil continued to multiply. Up comes Moses with the Law - and sin continued to multiply. God had mercy on us, seeing we could not get out on our own and sent Christ - to erase all sin and the root - original sin. That is ALL sin - past, present, future. All the poison from the poisonous tree. God knew that sin would continue, so He gave us a sure way home.

 

[lynn w]

So where does sin fit in?
James 4 17
To him that knows to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is a sin.

1 Corinthians 6 9-11
Or do you not know that wrong doers will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the Kingdom.

 

[Major]

So where does sin fit in?
James 4 17
To him that knows to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is a sin.

1 Corinthians 6 9-11
Or do you not know that wrong doers will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the Kingdom.

Where does sin fit in???

Sin is the thing that seperates man from God. It fact, the sin of un-belief is the only sin that seperates man from God.

Paul gives a list of moral sins committed by man that effect his standing with God. All of those can be forgiven except UN-BELIEF.

The Christians at Corinth had been involved in these things before their conversions. During that time they had no hope at all of heaven. Also, any make believing Christians returning to such practices would forfeit their eternal home with God.
But these things were now a part of the past. The disciples at Corinth had been washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. This happened when they obeyed the gospel from the heart.. This obedience involves those who have come to believe in Jesus repenting of their former conduct and being baptized in the name of Christ (ACTS 2:38). Thus they had been washed (baptized), sanctified (set apart from their old manner of life and dedicated to a new purpose) and justified (declared forgiven and made righteous by God's grace). God took people who were headed toward eternal destruction, and by His power and grace had altered their direction. He continues to do so today. Those who live according to His purpose shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Not in what we have done or can do, but based entirely on what Jesus did for us all on the cross.

 

[Bro.tan]

Really????

My dear brother, sin immediately inundated the whole world and had a mortal effect on all who lived in it and those who came after them.

"SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHERE THERE IS NO LAW". And your thought is .........."If there is no law, there is no sin".

But even before the law was given, physical death gave witness to the presence of sin in Adam and Eve and his posterity. So universal was this sin that its deadly effects were over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adams sin.

Before what law was given?

 

[Bro.tan]

The law that came from God to man by Moses Bro.tan. Isn't that the law we have had in focus all through this discussion????

Isn't that what you have been wanting to add to salvation brother???

Once again...Which law? There's a law that's been around for ever, and there's a law that was added because of the law that was around forever.

 

[Bro.tan]

So where does sin fit in?
James 4 17
To him that knows to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is a sin.

1 Corinthians 6 9-11
Or do you not know that wrong doers will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the Kingdom.

(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. So sin fits in to those who do the opposite of what the Lord tell them to do. Exodus 20th chapter

 

[Major]

Before what law was given?

The Word of God brother.

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, for in the day that thou eatest therof, thou shalt surely die".

Was that not a prohibition, and Adam and Eve disobeyed the Word of God.

“Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law” (I John 3:4).