The Basics Of Overcoming Satan

Also want to say that words that are not from faith are manifestations that will be judged.

"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. 37"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matthew 12:26).

Evil words (not in faith of God words) are a dichotomy to the Word which is salvation, faith, the manifest (begotten truth), that is Jesus. In Him our words are power and truth, light and life for they are from His mind and His Spirit.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). "In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind" (John 1:4).

The believer is in the Word whose words are all righteous so they are justified (the true confession of salvation is actually as a result of faith in the words of God's Spirit).

The power over principalities, evil powers etc. comes from the righteous one, not doctrines being spoken from the mind (even if doctrines are correct) , but words of life being spoken from God's Spirit through us (which are living doctrines).

"The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit" (Proverbs 18:21).

Each person can choose the words of life from the Word, the Spirit of good fruit (the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law [Galatians 5:22-23]), or the words of death (sin and the fruit of sin which is destruction, separation from God, and death spiritually).

Words are spiritual.
Hey Olivia, I was looking for this post and forgot what thread it was on... If its ok with you, i want to transfer it to another one, so I can consider these truths as you have written them? I will assume I have your permission:)
 
Brother Steve and brother Mike.. I know and understand the conflict that you guys see in each others views and understanding of the truth. I delight in both you guys? I know why mike believes so strongly in these doctrines of unmovable faith, and that they do in fact move many mountains that others in the body of Christ have come to put in terms of trials or testing etc.. I came out of the WOF because I could see that much or these doctrines had become unbalanced from a overall understanding of the truth and especially the issue of love and humility. Me and brother Mike have had very strong debates along these issues. But I see in him a mighty zeal that God will conform and will work that which pleases Him. I am much inclined to agree with our friend, brother Steve on his understanding, but I do hope that some of what Mike is saying would be considered. As far a being a "pastor" I have no doubt about that calling on you brother Steve, but I have had titles offered to me as well and many other honors in ministry. I have also seen the compromise that always seems to go along with these titles. I hope you understand that the reason "pastors" are not honored are because of the "pastors" that have taken those honors and brought shame upon that title. I say to any pastor, stop trying to defend the title and those who use the title, bring honor back and have no fellowship with pastors who bring dishonor. Then we can restore the value of that title. Just as the problems in the church and our families are not others faults, the fault is with us Men, who have compromised to gain for ourselves. Let us be men of God, not in word or title but in power, truth and love and we will restore what has been broken down.

Amen Mitspa...well said...
 
Thanks for being honest Mistpa and thanks for your comments. This is one of those subjects which can cause some debates however I am rather surprised about your comments toward the role of Pastor? I indeed agree that there are countless stories of "Pastors" who have brought the gospel into disrepute however, all Pastors can't be painted with the same brush and referring to yourself as a Pastor is as common as Paul the Apostle referring to himself as an Apostle, a minister or a preacher. This is one subject which I feel is being lost, each and very book written in the new testament was written to either assemblies of God's people or overseers of churches and as we can see by Paul's ministry of overseeing the ministry and of the precepts he taught Timonthy to follow, there is a very clear role in oversight and recognisition of the kind of hard work we put into the body of Christ. Paul shows Timothy a very clear precept of setting forward overseers within the body of Christ and those men, including me, are there to oversee in accorance with God's Word. I'm sorry that you might have had bad experiences in this area however not all Pastors misuse their role. i would be more than happy to share with you the true role and mindset a Pastor shoudl have including what it took to be set forward if it's something you might never have came across. God bless....
 
Brother Steve and brother Mike.. I know and understand the conflict that you guys see in each others views and understanding of the truth. I delight in both you guys? I know why mike believes so strongly in these doctrines of unmovable faith, and that they do in fact move many mountains that others in the body of Christ have come to put in terms of trials or testing etc.. I came out of the WOF because I could see that much or these doctrines had become unbalanced from a overall understanding of the truth and especially the issue of love and humility. Me and brother Mike have had very strong debates along these issues. .

Well, I certainly do not want to be the carrier of strife. As a pastor, you want people to have victory in their life. I have shown that fear is a spirit, Job was full of fear and care and it was those things that came on Job.

Fear Not is mentioned many more times than Don't steal.

If I were to preach that God is Sovereign and wanted to test Job, So God gave permission to a disobedient angel to murder his children. That does not give people a whole lot of confidence in God. It gives them excuses not to believe the Word.

Well, you know........ Paul asked Jesus 3 times to heal him and He said no.

Not what Jesus said. Jesus said the Grace is already there Paul, start doing things in my Strength and not your own knowledge I gave you.
Paul then said I would rather be weak, that the Power of Christ (The anointing) will be strong.
then later said.

We can do all things through Christ that strengthens us. Paul had to learn that abundance of revelation was not going to work, you need the grace and anointing also and Satan knocked the wind out of his sails by setting up the people against him.
For Paul quoted the OT saying the people shall be as thorns in your sides and prices in your eyes.

Paul convinced writing.....

2Th 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

God giving the devil permission to murder his peoples children is EVIL. At least here in the U.S.A

2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

How many was Paul delivered from.............. ALL OF THEM.

As Pastors, if we want the people to have faith and trust God, we are going to have to preach it. We can't be Wishy Washy saying God is good on minute then saying God is mysterious and we don't always understand why God took that small child home so early. You know God causes it to rain on the Just and unjust. We just never know.
 
Hi family...sorry I just weighed in (good article brother Steve, it asks as many questions as it answers) and have not finished all the thread yet (but I will). I would like to present two posts...one on the idea of killing...I think I give enough scripture to demonstrate what these differences specify...part II will be an analogy that we can hopefully relate to...so then

What does the Bible speak to when we read about killings (especially where God is concerned)....it answers "Why would our God do that?"

The Hebrew word “rasah” or “rashah”, as it is used here in the 6th Commandment refers most specifically to premeditated murder without just cause. However, it can also be used in the sense of manslaughter, as when one kills by mistake, or without intent, like in the case of Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 4:42, 19:4, Joshua 20:3-5, and elsewhere! what we must understand is that, in Hebrew, the specific meaning of this word must always be determined by its’ context. We must always see it in relation to the surrounding statements. In the commandments it is absolute, the law is conditional under that covenant (IF you do this THEN I will do this, but IF you do that, THEN I will do that…see Deuteronomy 28)...in the Septuagint translation 1,000 years before the Masoretic was written, these Hebrew Rabbis put the 10 commandments in the imperative mood (in Greek). What makes this interesting IS that this mood precludes that man is capable of keeping these. But since the fall we are self-willed selfish creature who eventually do what is right in our own eyes (Genesis 3:5...we become as god to our self...we become lord of our own life).

We know sin is at least a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) but if you think about it, there are actually 613 commandments not just 10 and all sorts of nuances brought out through the remaining Scriptures. The word says…the soul that sins it must die. This is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that the consequence of sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death)...in some sins it is a punishment but in most it is a consequence...(if I violate the Lord's immutable law of gravity I will smash to the ground and be killed)

Next, we have the word “hemit”, which carries no sense of guilt or iniquity and is used in the case of righteous capital punishment, or when the killing is the result of an attack from a wild beast, and so on! The root of this word is related to the word “emet” or truth. We see this usage in Leviticus 20:4; Numbers 35:19-21; Deuteronomy 13:10 (your passage) and Deuteronomy 17:7!

Finally, when God orders the execution or destruction of an individual or group (like when He commands Joshua at the five cities of Canaan), the word “haraq” is used (See also Genesis 20:4; Exodus 4:23, etc.). This form of killing is used specifically in the prevention of foreseen evils beyond our comprehension. By eliminating these people (who He knows will be condemned anyway for they will refuse to repent), God is actually sparing millions of people (not just the Israelites) the pain, disease, suffering, and death that they would have caused. It would be used, for example, in eliminating an Adolph Hitler. There is absolutely nothing evil in this, in fact it is very good. Therefore, this form of killing is always just, whether or not we finite humans can see the full implications of His doing it.

The question has also been asked, “Why couldn’t God just make the devils repent and then save them rather than condemn them all to eternal death in Gehenna? I mean, didn’t Jesus die for all sins? Can’t He save them as well?

And the answer is, “Yes, He could, but He won’t, because these are free-will beings who not only have made this choice, but God has foreseen that, even if given many opportunities, they still will not repent.”

Why didn't He just annihilate them at once. "Because He made them eternal beings their existence will not cease. When God does something IT IS. Thus foreknowing they would rebel (an act of the will) HE made place where all unrepentant self lords who cannot cease to exist would eventually be placed." When He made them, the grace of repentance was not part of the program.

Therefore, regarding this last type of death that they will suffer (eternal separation from the presence of God), and believing they know what this means, they still choose faithless rebellion, and so God is entirely justified, and no person who truly understands this can feel sorry for the malevolent beings of this universe who are being so judged. An unrepentant mass murder is such a person. Satan and his minions know God is real and rejects the Lordship of God, and thus mock God.

re-read about "haraq"...

I know at the end some theology snuck in there...ignore it as I know some of us may differ slightly on some points and I am not trying to derail

In His love

brother Paul
Hello Brother Paul and thank you for such full comments regards my post. I must apologise, I've just read through however it's a little late over here in Scotland to engage in a full debate however I look forward to further fellowship with you in the future...
 
I think again you're making many assumptions about who I am and where I come from. Almost every book in the New Testament including the Word's of Jesus Christ speak of those religious who come against the ministry. Jesus said beware of the leaven of the scribes, Paul endlessly contended with the religous of the day, Paul warned Timothy of evil doers and even names Alexander the coppersmith not to mention Paul encouraging Titus to stop the words of those who try to subvery hearers. When you have to practice what the Word of God teaches in reality, it's only then it becomes confirmed in the heart. I've seen the devastatiomn unclean spirits wreck in peoples lives and had the pleasure of dispatching them seeing the person set free from their bondage. The Spirit of the Lord and the Word of God go hand in hand, we're called to test the spirits to see if they be of God and the only way is through his word. As a Pastor within the Body of Christ I am called to preach the word, be instant in season and out, to reprove, rebuke and exhort with all long suffering and DOCTRINE.
There are people battling in the physical, yet the whole battle is in the spiritual. That is the whole battle is in the spiritual.Someone can reprove and rebuke from the physical and someone can do it from the spiritual. Because it is following scripture does not mean it is from the spiritual either (everything that is not of faith is sin [Romans 14:23]). Obedience without faith is sin. What is faith? "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). When in the Spirit even scripture is as new life working through us, not a command from the past that we learned. Following scripture by the Spirit of God (we know the scripture is true because the Spirit is alive in us and acts God's power through us as life, love, and truth through faith) is where the real power is and no evil can stand against it. This is God's true life.
 
We know sin is at least a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) but if you think about it, there are actually 613 commandments not just 10 and all sorts of nuances brought out through the remaining Scriptures. The word says…the soul that sins it must die. This is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that the consequence of sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death)...in some sins it is a punishment but in most it is a consequence...(if I violate the Lord's immutable law of gravity I will smash to the ground and be killed)

I did not mean to ignore post here.

That was my point about Job. Fear not, Be not afraid mentioned how many more times than Thou shalt not Kill, Murder I think was the correct translation of that command.

Hosea 4:6 says my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge......... Job's issue here about fear and worry.

For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
(Job 3:25-26)

Job's way of dealing with fear was with lots of thoughts, lots of worry and not resting in the Lord about it. Satan mentioned to Job that his kids might be cursing God during those parties. Satan always has a theme to start some form of mental issues.

God never said one time you die if you curse me. Satan made that up.

Job believed it.

Job starts to slaughter animals out of fear of loosing his kids. Thus Job did continually.

God knows Satan got a place and will not pervert his word (Elihu said that)

It was not permission. Satan says, You harm him God, you do it and Job will bless you to your face....(Salute back in acknowledging the same)God said, look and pay attention stupid, Job is in your power, I saw the whole thing but it's without cause and stop asking me to harm Job.

Your right Paul, we can't ignore what God said over and over and expect things to turn out well.

It's never God's fault though, not one time.
We have struggles in the flesh enough and have to trust God. We don't need taught God is in cahoots with the devil, plotting our time of sorrow to test our whatever it is that needs tested.
 
I came here today because I wanted to ask about drinking and smoking and weather it is sin...but in my heart I always knew that this is not what God intended for me and reading your article has only made that more clear to me.
 
I came here today because I wanted to ask about drinking and smoking and weather it is sin...but in my heart I always knew that this is not what God intended for me and reading your article has only made that more clear to me.

Anything that is not of faith is sin. In other words, if you ever have to question about doing something, then that is not faith. Don't do it. It's a good guide to follow.
 
Thanks for being honest Mistpa and thanks for your comments. This is one of those subjects which can cause some debates however I am rather surprised about your comments toward the role of Pastor? I indeed agree that there are countless stories of "Pastors" who have brought the gospel into disrepute however, all Pastors can't be painted with the same brush and referring to yourself as a Pastor is as common as Paul the Apostle referring to himself as an Apostle, a minister or a preacher. This is one subject which I feel is being lost, each and very book written in the new testament was written to either assemblies of God's people or overseers of churches and as we can see by Paul's ministry of overseeing the ministry and of the precepts he taught Timonthy to follow, there is a very clear role in oversight and recognisition of the kind of hard work we put into the body of Christ. Paul shows Timothy a very clear precept of setting forward overseers within the body of Christ and those men, including me, are there to oversee in accorance with God's Word. I'm sorry that you might have had bad experiences in this area however not all Pastors misuse their role. i would be more than happy to share with you the true role and mindset a Pastor shoudl have including what it took to be set forward if it's something you might never have came across. God bless....
My issue is not with the good but the bad and the good who refuse to stand against the bad. I am well aware of the scriptures and the context of where titles are used "I Paul" is the common term of the greatest apostle. I meant no offense to you or your calling, but what I have said I said with my conscience bearing witness in the Holy Spirit. I am not an offended soul lashing out.. I am a Man of God speaking in the authority God has given to me as a teacher and a reformer of the Church. You have titles I have titles, it does not matter, what matters is the truth. The truth is the reason the term "pastor" is not honored is because of those who have used that title and have used in in a way that dishonors it. I hope you understand that I have and will continue to treat you with the respect you deserve as a man of God and not based upon the title pastor. Let me just be honest brother Steve and get around the polite talk that we sometimes try to use to say what we want to say without really saying it. It is my aim to challenge every tradition against the truth of Gods Word, I believe with my whole heart the "church" as we know it, is a unpleasing sight unto God and that He desires that those who use the title pastor, begin to make real reforms and stop all this playing church and titles and let us cover for each other nonsense. I think it time to stop with the titles and be what we are called to be. I believe and KNOW this is the condition of the church:


Re 3:14 ¶ "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' --and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
 
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There are people battling in the physical, yet the whole battle is in the spiritual. That is the whole battle is in the spiritual.Someone can reprove and rebuke from the physical and someone can do it from the spiritual. Because it is following scripture does not mean it is from the spiritual either (everything that is not of faith is sin [Romans 14:23]). Obedience without faith is sin. What is faith? "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). When in the Spirit even scripture is as new life working through us, not a command from the past that we learned. Following scripture by the Spirit of God (we know the scripture is true because the Spirit is alive in us and acts God's power through us as life, love, and truth through faith) is where the real power is and no evil can stand against it. This is God's true life.
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I agree that obedience without faith is sin: that is reading James 2:17 _ backwards. Faith without works (obedience) is not faith (dead). And if it is not of faith, it is sin. Faith will have it's work (obedience); but works of the flesh cannot profit man....that includes speaking another gospel.
 
We are a vessel to be used by God . There are souls out there who need to hear of the good news of salvation. People havn't even heard of Jesus. God wants to use us to reach these people in all corners of the earth. People will accept and we can be that person to lead them to Jesus. The ones who don't would at least have been given the opportunity.
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Amen. The Church is called to do a specific work: but too often she is still being fed milk and honey, and is not able to fulfill her task. There are too many "chiefs" in the Ministry: therefore no one is available to perfect the saints, show the Church how to work the ministry, and she still lacks edification. And the people are dying en masse. The Lord help us to take our place and do His will...and not ours.
 
Hello Brother Paul and thank you for such full comments regards my post. I must apologise, I've just read through however it's a little late over here in Scotland to engage in a full debate however I look forward to further fellowship with you in the future...

Thanks, the Lord be praised...it was just a clarification to some post that asked how could the God we know kill? I am exploring some of your blog page now...I was very busy.
 
My issue is not with the good but the bad and the good who refuse to stand against the bad. I am well aware of the scriptures and the context of where titles are used "I Paul" is the common term of the greatest apostle. I meant no offense to you or your calling, but what I have said I said with my conscience bearing witness in the Holy Spirit. I am not an offended soul lashing out.. I am a Man of God speaking in the authority God has given to me as a teacher and a reformer of the Church. You have titles I have titles, it does not matter, what matters is the truth. The truth is the reason the term "pastor" is not honored is because of those who have used that title and have used in in a way that dishonors it. I hope you understand that I have and will continue to treat you with the respect you deserve as a man of God and not based upon the title pastor. Let me just be honest brother Steve and get around the polite talk that we sometimes try to use to say what we want to say without really saying it. It is my aim to challenge every tradition against the truth of Gods Word, I believe with my whole heart the "church" as we know it, is a unpleasing sight unto God and that He desires that those who use the title pastor, begin to make real reforms and stop all this playing church and titles and let us cover for each other nonsense. I think it time to stop with the titles and be what we are called to be. I believe and KNOW this is the condition of the church:


Re 3:14 ¶ "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' --and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Hello and thank you for your reply. I think you have a passion which most Christians share and one I share more than most. I wouldn't for a minute defend assemblies of people who claim to be walking in the spirit and preaching Christ yet ignoring his word, I've challenged Pastors and even National Overseers in great depth about their folly of continuing in tradiations that didn't work, don't work and never will will work. It's got me in a lot of trouble too but these things I have done lawfully and God has delivered me from those individuals. I have been trouble most of my Christian life because I refuse to waver from his truth but again, I stayed within his fruitfulness in doing so and I continue to do so.

It;s interesting you used the verses from revelations because each begins with "to the angel (Greek - Angelos - Pastor) of the church....". I am well aware of my responsibility as an overseer within the body of Christ and this why I stay within God's Word to the fullest and not compromise his truth. When the times become right, I can assure you, I will be building upon Christ's foundation with gold and silver, I've seen first hand too how Christians get hurt from tradiational overseers and those who abuse their postition for their own gain. If you spoke to any Christian who knows me, they'll tell you I don't comprise even if it does mean ruffling a few feathers.

I see many individuals who quote 'the problem with church' and 'the church is this and the church is that' - The church is the worldwide body of Christ, those who are truly saved and walking in the fruits of his spirit attending various assemblies from all over the world. They are Christ Body, when individuals use the word Church and try to identidy problems, they are indeed offending Christ's own body as he is the living head. This is why if I have a comment to make regarding church, I just wouldn't use that word I would use the word assembly.

I do agree with you about the folly of some assemblies and some who call themselves Pastors but it seems each time I come on this forum, I am automatically put in a the bracket of a traditionalist, a legalist or I've heard a hyper grace teacher. These individuals don't even know me yet you guys can so easily try to derail me just for referring to myself as a Pastor.
 
I came here today because I wanted to ask about drinking and smoking and weather it is sin...but in my heart I always knew that this is not what God intended for me and reading your article has only made that more clear to me.
Hello Justin, I must apologise I can't tell from your comment whether you agree with the article or not however if you would like some advice on the subject you brought up then please mail me personally and I will share an answer....blessings...
 
Hello and thank you for your reply. I think you have a passion which most Christians share and one I share more than most. I wouldn't for a minute defend assemblies of people who claim to be walking in the spirit and preaching Christ yet ignoring his word, I've challenged Pastors and even National Overseers in great depth about their folly of continuing in tradiations that didn't work, don't work and never will will work. It's got me in a lot of trouble too but these things I have done lawfully and God has delivered me from those individuals. I have been trouble most of my Christian life because I refuse to waver from his truth but again, I stayed within his fruitfulness in doing so and I continue to do so.

It;s interesting you used the verses from revelations because each begins with "to the angel (Greek - Angelos - Pastor) of the church....". I am well aware of my responsibility as an overseer within the body of Christ and this why I stay within God's Word to the fullest and not compromise his truth. When the times become right, I can assure you, I will be building upon Christ's foundation with gold and silver, I've seen first hand too how Christians get hurt from tradiational overseers and those who abuse their postition for their own gain. If you spoke to any Christian who knows me, they'll tell you I don't comprise even if it does mean ruffling a few feathers.

I see many individuals who quote 'the problem with church' and 'the church is this and the church is that' - The church is the worldwide body of Christ, those who are truly saved and walking in the fruits of his spirit attending various assemblies from all over the world. They are Christ Body, when individuals use the word Church and try to identidy problems, they are indeed offending Christ's own body as he is the living head. This is why if I have a comment to make regarding church, I just wouldn't use that word I would use the word assembly.

I do agree with you about the folly of some assemblies and some who call themselves Pastors but it seems each time I come on this forum, I am automatically put in a the bracket of a traditionalist, a legalist or I've heard a hyper grace teacher. These individuals don't even know me yet you guys can so easily try to derail me just for referring to myself as a Pastor.
My brother, the Greek for Angelos is not "pastor"... as you well know and should understand that I would know as well? What these passages speak of is a condition. You have my respect brother Steve and you will gain the respect of many to whom you minister but its because you are what the title says. We are not something because we have a title, we have a title because of what we are (namely what God has made us) I am glad you do not compromise and I know for myself that this can be a lonely place in ministry, but I have but this one life and one ministry to serve God. Win or lose, I aim to look to no man or group or consider man opinions but to consider the Lords Will alone. There is many reasons why I hold some of these views Brother Steve, some are evident and some are related to things God has shown me in private and are related to the call I feel I have on my life. You know I ask God once why men seek after these titles? He told me it was a lack of faith that they where what He said they where. I am what God has called me, I need no man to approve me or to call me by a title. I do often need God to remind me and uphold me in the call He was placed upon me. I don't know it all... I just know what God has showed to me. Again I mean no offense but I have very real and sincere reasons to have my opinions and they where formed in those deep places of God where mans opinions have little value.
 
My brother, the Greek for Angelos is not "pastor"... as you well know and should understand that I would know as well? What these passages speak of is a condition. You have my respect brother Steve and you will gain the respect of many to whom you minister but its because you are what the title says. We are not something because we have a title, we have a title because of what we are (namely what God has made us) I am glad you do not compromise and I know for myself that this can be a lonely place in ministry, but I have but this one life and one ministry to serve God. Win or lose, I aim to look to no man or group or consider man opinions but to consider the Lords Will alone. There is many reasons why I hold some of these views Brother Steve, some are evident and some are related to things God has shown me in private and are related to the call I feel I have on my life. You know I ask God once why men seek after these titles? He told me it was a lack of faith that they where what He said they where. I am what God has called me, I need no man to approve me or to call me by a title. I do often need God to remind me and uphold me in the call He was placed upon me. I don't know it all... I just know what God has showed to me. Again I mean no offense but I have very real and sincere reasons to have my opinions and they where formed in those deep places of God where mans opinions have little value.

I think Mitspa when you check the Greek (g32) you'll find that it does reffer to Pastor for example the church in Thyatira. the letter was addressed to the Pastor and the woman Jezabel wasn't the one we tend to think, it was the Pastor's wife Jesus was referring to 'woman - go-nay - specifically a wife'. These are the literal translations from the original Greek Texts so I guess we maybe need to agree to disagree on that point.

I wouldn't for a moment question the leading of God upon those who might not have been called to an overseer role in the body of Christ but God doesn't contradict his word and each and every word we receive spiritually needs to be tested on the light of the scriptures. If Paul the Apostle found it okay to address himself as Apostle or commend other Apostles to other churches then these statements are divinely inspired and perfectly normal. Again I've no doubt God takes issues with some using a title to their own uses but as the Word clearly states multiple times, an overseer in the body of Christ should make himself know as to who he is to other Christians. All Pastors can't be tarred with the same brush so I would venture to say the Lord gave you was about a portion of those shepherds.

For me, I've lived an uncompromising path when it comes to my calling in the Lord. I was called years ago by a prophetic message (Like Paul, Timothy) afterwhich I served the church as a servant until years later, after being found blameless in accordance with 1st Timonthy 3, I was set forward by the laying on of hands to publicly recognise me as a fit Pastor. Even then I was still early on the path and served as an associate Pastor during which we were called to preach, teach, lay hands on the sick, give prophetic messages and lead people to the Lord Jesus Christ. Hopefully the above brief paragraph will give you enough to know who I am.
 
I think Mitspa when you check the Greek (g32) you'll find that it does reffer to Pastor for example the church in Thyatira. the letter was addressed to the Pastor and the woman Jezabel wasn't the one we tend to think, it was the Pastor's wife Jesus was referring to 'woman - go-nay - specifically a wife'. These are the literal translations from the original Greek Texts so I guess we maybe need to agree to disagree on that point.

I wouldn't for a moment question the leading of God upon those who might not have been called to an overseer role in the body of Christ but God doesn't contradict his word and each and every word we receive spiritually needs to be tested on the light of the scriptures. If Paul the Apostle found it okay to address himself as Apostle or commend other Apostles to other churches then these statements are divinely inspired and perfectly normal. Again I've no doubt God takes issues with some using a title to their own uses but as the Word clearly states multiple times, an overseer in the body of Christ should make himself know as to who he is to other Christians. All Pastors can't be tarred with the same brush so I would venture to say the Lord gave you was about a portion of those shepherds.

For me, I've lived an uncompromising path when it comes to my calling in the Lord. I was called years ago by a prophetic message (Like Paul, Timothy) afterwhich I served the church as a servant until years later, after being found blameless in accordance with 1st Timonthy 3, I was set forward by the laying on of hands to publicly recognise me as a fit Pastor. Even then I was still early on the path and served as an associate Pastor during which we were called to preach, teach, lay hands on the sick, give prophetic messages and lead people to the Lord Jesus Christ. Hopefully the above brief paragraph will give you enough to know who I am.
Again brother angel is not pastor , if some have through "tradition" implied this as the meaning? I would challenge that tradition and that form of translation is what has perverted much of what these terms bishop-overseer really mean. As far as your right to call yourself a pastor, I have not challenged that nor would I. It seems you have spent much time affirming your calling in your own thoughts? And I see you use statements as the one I have highlighted... I cannot imagine what scriptures you have drawn this from? And the fact that a group approves a man or calls him by a title is of little value unless God has called that man? Again Paul never taught us to seek titles and such and he often belittled this sort of efforts by religious men. He himself limited his authority to that which God had put under him.

1Co 3:5 ¶ Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

2Co 3:1 ¶ Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you?

Ga 1:10 ¶ For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
 
Again brother angel is not pastor , if some have through "tradition" implied this as the meaning? I would challenge that tradition and that form of translation is what has perverted much of what these terms bishop-overseer really mean. As far as your right to call yourself a pastor, I have not challenged that nor would I. It seems you have spent much time affirming your calling in your own thoughts? And I see you use statements as the one I have highlighted... I cannot imagine what scriptures you have drawn this from? And the fact that a group approves a man or calls him by a title is of little value unless God has called that man? Again Paul never taught us to seek titles and such and he often belittled this sort of efforts by religious men. He himself limited his authority to that which God had put under him.
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I need to say that Mitspa is correct in this: it does not refer to a pastor, but a messenger. Personally, I believe the messenger is not ONE individual, but ONE Ministry: the one with the offices of "...some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers." Five "offices": but one Ministry.

Mitspa: you have already challenged CB to basics by saying that he calls himself a pastor, and affirming the same in his own thoughts. Beloved, you ought not to do this. "Who are you that judges another man's servant?" Think about it.
 
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