We are a vessel to be used by God . There are souls out there who need to hear of the good news of salvation. People havn't even heard of Jesus. God wants to use us to reach these people in all corners of the earth. People will accept and we can be that person to lead them to Jesus. The ones who don't would at least have been given the opportunity.
The Basics Of Overcoming Satan
- Thread starter christianbacktobasics
- Start date
MichaelH
Inactive
Those folks that sent themselves to hell, sure gonna wish they didn't.
But you did answer part of the puzzle. God has a plan.................... Created for his Workmanship, Sat in the body as He chooses, Fearfully and wonderfully made. So the plan could not be for anyone to go to Hell.
So if God made a plan and path to follow, then God would know exactly everything if the man stayed on that path. God is the one that made and planed it. Everything set up as we continue to walk down that path. We stay on the path, we run into all God had waiting.
So, then Is it election ............... I guess you don't agree with that one.
Then foreknowledge?
1Sa 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.
Foreknowledge would not have felt bad (long sigh hebrew repent) that it made Saul King. God said He turned his back from following me.
What happens if you get off God's path?
But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
(Pro 4:18-19)
The only foreknowledge God would have is that if you don't get back on that path of the Just, your not going to make it.
Jesus came to show us the Father. How He operates.
He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
(Luk 13:6-9)
Jesus did not say........ Well, well, I am God and I know if that tree will make it or not. Well, Well, I see that the tree is going to make it so Don't cut it down.
No, he said give that Tree a chance, give it more nutrients and if it does not produce fruit then, cut it down.
Now Jesus could be wrong about How God works and what God knows, as some think Jesus was. I for one take his word on it, it was up to the tree with no foreknowledge. For even He was waiting to see if it would bare fruit. Just like Saul turned from the Lord.
Be blessed.
I’d say the forces of darkness are like a speck of dust on my sofa and God is every square inch, of the whole universe.
Satan is the speck but if a believer puts their faith in him they are making him the couch when he is only the speck. When a believer walks in the Spirit however, there isn't even a speck because they are fully in God where there is no evil. Even though evil existed during the time of Adam and Eve before their fall, it wasn't until they turned their faith from God and believed evil that evil became true for them (thus knowing good and evil). When fully in God's Spirit.
Hi Christianbacktobasics,
I have one question for you?
Christianbacktobasics said, "During our season of babies and website work, we've received many attacks and normally in the form of accusations from those who profess to be saved, loving and compassionate Christians..."
God Calls Me Olivia says: Does this sound like the Holy Spirit speaking?
I ask this in love because I truly want you to have real power, that power that only the blood of the lamb can give.
MichaelH
Inactive
My theory was these attacks were not really attacks, but believers who were just dumbfounded that A Pastor would say God sent a hit man to murder a mans children that served him. Not Job's fault, God the killers fault.
So, it was not attacks, it was just people stunned in disbelief and had questions. Satan is under our feet, defeated, a big Zero and is going to be cooked very soon.
Just saying.
Also want to say that words that are not from faith are manifestations that will be judged.
"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. 37"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matthew 12:26).
Evil words (not in faith of God words) are a dichotomy to the Word which is salvation, faith, the manifest (begotten truth), that is Jesus. In Him our words are power and truth, light and life for they are from His mind and His Spirit.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). "In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind" (John 1:4).
The believer is in the Word whose words are all righteous so they are justified (the true confession of salvation is actually as a result of faith in the words of God's Spirit).
The power over principalities, evil powers etc. comes from the righteous one, not doctrines being spoken from the mind (even if doctrines are correct) , but words of life being spoken from God's Spirit through us (which are living doctrines).
"The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit" (Proverbs 18:21).
Each person can choose the words of life from the Word, the Spirit of good fruit (the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law [Galatians 5:22-23]), or the words of death (sin and the fruit of sin which is destruction, separation from God, and death spiritually).
Words are spiritual.
"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. 37"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matthew 12:26).
Evil words (not in faith of God words) are a dichotomy to the Word which is salvation, faith, the manifest (begotten truth), that is Jesus. In Him our words are power and truth, light and life for they are from His mind and His Spirit.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). "In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind" (John 1:4).
The believer is in the Word whose words are all righteous so they are justified (the true confession of salvation is actually as a result of faith in the words of God's Spirit).
The power over principalities, evil powers etc. comes from the righteous one, not doctrines being spoken from the mind (even if doctrines are correct) , but words of life being spoken from God's Spirit through us (which are living doctrines).
"The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit" (Proverbs 18:21).
Each person can choose the words of life from the Word, the Spirit of good fruit (the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law [Galatians 5:22-23]), or the words of death (sin and the fruit of sin which is destruction, separation from God, and death spiritually).
Words are spiritual.
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Wow Olivia, never seen that,(exactly as you explained it) you are a deep well indeed
MichaelH
Inactive
The idle words are the ones that count. The inactive words in our heart, our belief system. They just come out in time of stress, or in lewdness. The words we really believe from the abundance of our heart.
Saying you scared me to death after someone sneaks up on you is words that will be judged. Our mouth should have no death or fear in them. The tongue can no man tame but can be put under subjection by the living Word sown in us.
Jesus said, you will have what you say, and Believe in your heart. Belief comes from hearing and the abundance of what you hear for it is written to guard your heart with all diligence, for out of your heart comes all the issues of your life. Your tongue sets your course for failure, or sets the course to do the plan of God.
God said in times back that I will take you to the promise land, they said God brought us out to die by the sword and that our children will be pray.
God had enough and said............
How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me? I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel, which they murmur against me. Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you:
(Num 14:27-28)
They got exactly as they have chosen.
Be blessed.
Hello Sal, I must apologise again my friend, I'm still trying to get used to Online Chats and it can be a little difficult to come across in the right ways, I much more at ease preaching and discussing scriptures face to face. I must say it's nice to speak to someone who actually respects the role of the Pastor in todays world, it seems all over that many individuals who profess to be saved can speak and act outwith the fruits of God's Spirit and still claim to be being lead by the spirit? Still trying to get my head around it. I think this is a subject which many find confusing not least myself, I think the fact God created Satan in the first place is a difficult fact to comprehend but there is no doubt, God is righteous and there's no darkness in him so the reasons had to be correct. At the end of the day God is God and we'll never fully understand until this lifetime is past. Let me share my experiences and maybe it will help any reader see where I'm coming from on this one to qualify my remarks. When I was a younger Christian I was always taught that God's Word is perfect, that it doesn't contradict itself in any way and presents the true mind of our Lord God and so far, I've never seen God in my own life or in the life of others do anything outwith his Word, will or nature and i doubt I ever will. So when we come across more difficult aspects of his word like the passage is in Job, it can take a lot more than book-smartsand the original text to come to a conclusion. A couple of years after I was called to the ministry (but not yet serving in the role) I fell seriously ill from a disease called Ulcerative Colitis and what followed was 4 years of pain, surgeries and many trips to the emergency room. Now I had no issues with God's power to heal, I'll called upon the Lord 3 times to heal my wife once from a life-threatning condition but God's Word to me was simple, "it's not your time yet". In the end I had my whole large bowel removed and these days I still suffer a bit from pain but what was really interesting was the end of this particular season. At the end, a Senior Pastor friend of mine who I hadn't seen for a very long time dropped a letter through our door which basically gave me a word from the Lord that I'd been sifted like wheat and that that season had come to an end. It felt like a sifting alright and I was a very broken man by the end but one night God impressed upon me very deeply the reason for his will. He impressed upon me, which was later confirmed, that the pride within me was far more of a poison than the disease ever was and this was the process he allowed to rid me of this pride. This whole event mirrored the account of Job but more of the Apostle Peter in that God had to rid Peter of his pride before he would be really useful. When God did rid me of my pride, our ministry took off, I was set forward within our church to oversee, I began preaching night after night in our church and in other places, I wrote books and created our bookshop and it was only then I could fully appreciate why God took me down the road he did. With all of the pride and arrogance I had, I was no use to the ministry, it just wouldn't have worked and I am so glad God took me down that road or I would not be here today. I wouldn't swap my sifting experience for anything, I wouldn't want to go through it again, but like Peter, God needed to work on me to make me useful becuase within myself, I just wasn't capable. I hope the above makes sense and i hope it goes a little way to see why I hold what I believe, not only does the Word show us the sifting of Peter and Job but I've read many other testimonies of Pastors and Evangelists who have experienced the same thing and experienced it myself. Hope this has been a good read and God bless you for your kindness Sal...
I think again you're making many assumptions about who I am and where I come from. Almost every book in the New Testament including the Word's of Jesus Christ speak of those religious who come against the ministry. Jesus said beware of the leaven of the scribes, Paul endlessly contended with the religous of the day, Paul warned Timothy of evil doers and even names Alexander the coppersmith not to mention Paul encouraging Titus to stop the words of those who try to subvery hearers. When you have to practice what the Word of God teaches in reality, it's only then it becomes confirmed in the heart. I've seen the devastatiomn unclean spirits wreck in peoples lives and had the pleasure of dispatching them seeing the person set free from their bondage. The Spirit of the Lord and the Word of God go hand in hand, we're called to test the spirits to see if they be of God and the only way is through his word. As a Pastor within the Body of Christ I am called to preach the word, be instant in season and out, to reprove, rebuke and exhort with all long suffering and DOCTRINE.
Again Michael your making no sense, Peter encouraged his readers to be aware of the wiles of devil as he is a roaring lion, Paul said to to take on the full armour of God to withstand, I think you need a better understanding of NT teachings and what it means to speak act and walk in the fruit of the spirit. Since you have no respect for the role of a calledand qualied Pastor within the Body of Christ I would ask you to refrain from commenting on my posts. God bless you...
Thank you for sharing your personal experiences . I am not too familiar with the 'sifting of Peter' . However from what you explain i feel i am definitely going through a 'sifting experience' in my own life. I was even at church this morning and my pastor taught us Deuteronomy 8:2, "And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commamdments or not".
I believe God has allowed me to go through something very unpleasant and painful to test me. And that if everything was 'fine' in my life i wouldn't have had the opportunity to give my time to the Lord and seek Him, to know how much i need Him.
I look forward to learning more from you.
I believe God has allowed me to go through something very unpleasant and painful to test me. And that if everything was 'fine' in my life i wouldn't have had the opportunity to give my time to the Lord and seek Him, to know how much i need Him.
I look forward to learning more from you.
God bless you Sal that's so kind, do you feel a call to the ministry?
MichaelH
Inactive
Your experience, is your experience. Your still alive. We don't understand the Word by experiences. The Word produces the experience, the Word tries us.
You talk about pride, but you are full of pride still today. Instead of taking responsibility for your physical condition, it must be God's fault in trying to get the pride out of you that you already have.
Scriptures say we are to put our bodies in subject. Paul learned a big lesson about going in his own IQ when that messenger of Satan came to stop him.
The Word does not contradict. Ever. I am not sure if your a new Pastor or what, but you should know this.
My own son was diagnosed with Terminal cancer. They did what they could, but it came to the point where they said he would be dead by morning.
Not one time did I ever think God had anything to do with it. Not once. Jesus told he He gave me the authority over the enemy, I was suppose to resist the devil and stand fast in faith.
I did, and I never asked God to heal my son one time. God said by his stripes we are healed, and good enough for me. I did tell the devil to get his hands off my son though. I also thanked God that his word was true and never fails. I never spoke any doubt our fear over my son, never said he might die, never planned a funeral just in case God dropped the ball.
Your teaching on Job is Wrong. God had nothing to do with it and if you would take time to read the whole book of Job you would know this.
Everything Job feared is what happened to him. He did not sacrifice for his kids out of faith, but fear of loss.
Satan came because fear is a spirit, Satan already had a place but wanted God to put his hands on Job. God said NO, pay attention he is in your power stupid.
You can't follow the suggestions of the enemy and be OK. God has never perverted his Word, will never change it for you or me.
You Mock fear, though God warned 58 times to fear not. Be not afraid 48 times. These were not suggestions, Fear will kill you and what you fear will come to pass, just like it did in Job's case. Jesus warned about fear, it's the one thing that got him Upset. No faith and having fear.
I showed you what Elihu said,........ He said the almighty will not do wickedly.,
You said... well God in war times had the kids killed of the heathen. bla, bla, bla, bla. God never told Joshua to kill the kids, Joshua did that.
Job was not a heathen, and you can't even tell the difference. God offered no protection to the heathen children, Zero and He is not obligated to protect them. He will protect his own though, and do it bloodily if He has to.
I even gave you the scriptures............. Scripture should mean something to a Pastor.
Pay attention!!!
Elihu..............................
Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what is good. For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.
(Job 34:4-5)
Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways. Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
(Job 34:10-12)
Elihu's says let us use judgement and to know what is good. God shall not do wickedness................. God does not commit iniquity. God will not pervert Judgement.
The work of what man does is rendered to man. God won't stop it.
If God stopped Satan from Getting Job, then God would have to pervert his eternal Word. God warned how many times to fear not and be not afraid?
You think you can disobey God and be OK??? then whatever happens to you is God's fault?
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
(Job 3:25)
We can ignore the Word, then when Satan gets a place it's God's fault and Murdering children of a just man is not wicked.
According to you Pastor, that is what your trying to feed us here.
I feel i really would like to do something , what i am no sure. I am not at ease in church standing to talk and give testimony, talking about bad things that happened. I am not confident in that respect although i wish i were and hope in time i will overcome that by the power of the Holy Spirit. I have evangelised with the church (not as often as i should), which can be fun, enjoyable and rewarding. My church have mentioned a few things in future in a sort of way. But i feel i'm not where i need to be yet, not ready , not strong enough , however it's a good thought to think i may be used in some eay in the future.
Wow Sal you seem so humble and honest, it's so freshing to speak to you. Years ago, I was an individual who stood in church with my hands in my pockets in the pews, I had anger issues, I wasn't comfortable at all with people hugging me or telling me they loved me and I had a tremendous fear of speaking publicly at all. I was aksed at times to lead a bible study or speak at events to share my testimony and although I stepped forward, I felt sick to my stomach for days before and days after. As the years rolled on I so wanted to preach as I felt it was my call but I would just freeze, my mind would go fuzzy and I just couldn't think straight. I thought how on earth will I ever overcome this, I knew I was called to the ministry but I just couldn't do it. Over the seasons of growing and experiencing God, he not only releived my fears of preaching publicly but set me forward to oversee and when that time came, I had no fear at all, none, it didn't matter if it was 10 people or 200 I was to teach in front of, God had brought me through and set me free into a new call with him. Sal if you feel feel any kind of desire to do more from God, it's likely God has put it there himself and I've no doubt, he'll do everything to bring that to a result in your life. God bless you and again thanks for being so kind, I hope this wee message repays your respect...
Hi family...sorry I just weighed in (good article brother Steve, it asks as many questions as it answers) and have not finished all the thread yet (but I will). I would like to present two posts...one on the idea of killing...I think I give enough scripture to demonstrate what these differences specify...part II will be an analogy that we can hopefully relate to...so then
What does the Bible speak to when we read about killings (especially where God is concerned)....it answers "Why would our God do that?"
The Hebrew word “rasah” or “rashah”, as it is used here in the 6th Commandment refers most specifically to premeditated murder without just cause. However, it can also be used in the sense of manslaughter, as when one kills by mistake, or without intent, like in the case of Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 4:42, 19:4, Joshua 20:3-5, and elsewhere! what we must understand is that, in Hebrew, the specific meaning of this word must always be determined by its’ context. We must always see it in relation to the surrounding statements. In the commandments it is absolute, the law is conditional under that covenant (IF you do this THEN I will do this, but IF you do that, THEN I will do that…see Deuteronomy 28)...in the Septuagint translation 1,000 years before the Masoretic was written, these Hebrew Rabbis put the 10 commandments in the imperative mood (in Greek). What makes this interesting IS that this mood precludes that man is capable of keeping these. But since the fall we are self-willed selfish creature who eventually do what is right in our own eyes (Genesis 3:5...we become as god to our self...we become lord of our own life).
We know sin is at least a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) but if you think about it, there are actually 613 commandments not just 10 and all sorts of nuances brought out through the remaining Scriptures. The word says…the soul that sins it must die. This is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that the consequence of sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death)...in some sins it is a punishment but in most it is a consequence...(if I violate the Lord's immutable law of gravity I will smash to the ground and be killed)
Next, we have the word “hemit”, which carries no sense of guilt or iniquity and is used in the case of righteous capital punishment, or when the killing is the result of an attack from a wild beast, and so on! The root of this word is related to the word “emet” or truth. We see this usage in Leviticus 20:4; Numbers 35:19-21; Deuteronomy 13:10 (your passage) and Deuteronomy 17:7!
Finally, when God orders the execution or destruction of an individual or group (like when He commands Joshua at the five cities of Canaan), the word “haraq” is used (See also Genesis 20:4; Exodus 4:23, etc.). This form of killing is used specifically in the prevention of foreseen evils beyond our comprehension. By eliminating these people (who He knows will be condemned anyway for they will refuse to repent), God is actually sparing millions of people (not just the Israelites) the pain, disease, suffering, and death that they would have caused. It would be used, for example, in eliminating an Adolph Hitler. There is absolutely nothing evil in this, in fact it is very good. Therefore, this form of killing is always just, whether or not we finite humans can see the full implications of His doing it.
The question has also been asked, “Why couldn’t God just make the devils repent and then save them rather than condemn them all to eternal death in Gehenna? I mean, didn’t Jesus die for all sins? Can’t He save them as well?”
And the answer is, “Yes, He could, but He won’t, because these are free-will beings who not only have made this choice, but God has foreseen that, even if given many opportunities, they still will not repent.”
Why didn't He just annihilate them at once. "Because He made them eternal beings their existence will not cease. When God does something IT IS. Thus foreknowing they would rebel (an act of the will) HE made place where all unrepentant self lords who cannot cease to exist would eventually be placed." When He made them, the grace of repentance was not part of the program.
Therefore, regarding this last type of death that they will suffer (eternal separation from the presence of God), and believing they know what this means, they still choose faithless rebellion, and so God is entirely justified, and no person who truly understands this can feel sorry for the malevolent beings of this universe who are being so judged. An unrepentant mass murder is such a person. Satan and his minions know God is real and rejects the Lordship of God, and thus mock God.
re-read about "haraq"...
I know at the end some theology snuck in there...ignore it as I know some of us may differ slightly on some points and I am not trying to derail
In His love
brother Paul
What does the Bible speak to when we read about killings (especially where God is concerned)....it answers "Why would our God do that?"
The Hebrew word “rasah” or “rashah”, as it is used here in the 6th Commandment refers most specifically to premeditated murder without just cause. However, it can also be used in the sense of manslaughter, as when one kills by mistake, or without intent, like in the case of Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 4:42, 19:4, Joshua 20:3-5, and elsewhere! what we must understand is that, in Hebrew, the specific meaning of this word must always be determined by its’ context. We must always see it in relation to the surrounding statements. In the commandments it is absolute, the law is conditional under that covenant (IF you do this THEN I will do this, but IF you do that, THEN I will do that…see Deuteronomy 28)...in the Septuagint translation 1,000 years before the Masoretic was written, these Hebrew Rabbis put the 10 commandments in the imperative mood (in Greek). What makes this interesting IS that this mood precludes that man is capable of keeping these. But since the fall we are self-willed selfish creature who eventually do what is right in our own eyes (Genesis 3:5...we become as god to our self...we become lord of our own life).
We know sin is at least a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) but if you think about it, there are actually 613 commandments not just 10 and all sorts of nuances brought out through the remaining Scriptures. The word says…the soul that sins it must die. This is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that the consequence of sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death)...in some sins it is a punishment but in most it is a consequence...(if I violate the Lord's immutable law of gravity I will smash to the ground and be killed)
Next, we have the word “hemit”, which carries no sense of guilt or iniquity and is used in the case of righteous capital punishment, or when the killing is the result of an attack from a wild beast, and so on! The root of this word is related to the word “emet” or truth. We see this usage in Leviticus 20:4; Numbers 35:19-21; Deuteronomy 13:10 (your passage) and Deuteronomy 17:7!
Finally, when God orders the execution or destruction of an individual or group (like when He commands Joshua at the five cities of Canaan), the word “haraq” is used (See also Genesis 20:4; Exodus 4:23, etc.). This form of killing is used specifically in the prevention of foreseen evils beyond our comprehension. By eliminating these people (who He knows will be condemned anyway for they will refuse to repent), God is actually sparing millions of people (not just the Israelites) the pain, disease, suffering, and death that they would have caused. It would be used, for example, in eliminating an Adolph Hitler. There is absolutely nothing evil in this, in fact it is very good. Therefore, this form of killing is always just, whether or not we finite humans can see the full implications of His doing it.
The question has also been asked, “Why couldn’t God just make the devils repent and then save them rather than condemn them all to eternal death in Gehenna? I mean, didn’t Jesus die for all sins? Can’t He save them as well?”
And the answer is, “Yes, He could, but He won’t, because these are free-will beings who not only have made this choice, but God has foreseen that, even if given many opportunities, they still will not repent.”
Why didn't He just annihilate them at once. "Because He made them eternal beings their existence will not cease. When God does something IT IS. Thus foreknowing they would rebel (an act of the will) HE made place where all unrepentant self lords who cannot cease to exist would eventually be placed." When He made them, the grace of repentance was not part of the program.
Therefore, regarding this last type of death that they will suffer (eternal separation from the presence of God), and believing they know what this means, they still choose faithless rebellion, and so God is entirely justified, and no person who truly understands this can feel sorry for the malevolent beings of this universe who are being so judged. An unrepentant mass murder is such a person. Satan and his minions know God is real and rejects the Lordship of God, and thus mock God.
re-read about "haraq"...
I know at the end some theology snuck in there...ignore it as I know some of us may differ slightly on some points and I am not trying to derail
In His love
brother Paul
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Now for a human analogy...(Pt. II)
Imagine the human body...each cell is an individual life form. They each function as part of a specific local cellular community (the heart, the lungs, the blood stream, etc.,). Different cells, and groups of cells (like humans), display differences in structure, appearance, life-span, function, etc.! Each cell in its relation to the other cells, and as a member of their particular cellular community, knowingly or unknowingly works as an intricate part of a whole (which is greater than the sum of its parts just like our communities). The human host, of which the cell is but a tiny seemingly insignificant part, is as the Lord is to us, in relation to the members of His body. We are the lord if you will from a cell's perspective. The individual cell’s instinctual purpose, like our own in His creation, is to work to maintain and protect its life, as well as the goals of its community life but in effect it is working our will and the end all of the purpose the serve in the one physical body.
One of the ways they assure their survival, and the continuation of their higher purpose is through self-replication or offspring. Their higher purpose is actually to achieve our will and our good, though they are most probably totally unaware, or only vaguely, that we, their human host, even exists. They understand little if anything about us personally, and our ways are higher than their ways, our thoughts are higher than their thoughts, if indeed it can be said that they even have any. They go about more or less doing the right thing in relation to one another unaware of the part they are playing in working within our overall purpose and will. Beyond their circumstantial perceptions they are working and interacting and helping to fulfill our long term plan.
Now then, each individual cell is created in our image. They contain the image of their host within each of them (in cells called DNA). They probably can sense an order and function interactively to enhance their mutually dependable existence. The span of their existence may be miniscule in relation to their human host, but to them it is a lifetime.
NOW sad as this truth is, every once in a while, a cell or some group of cells, decides they are going to do their own thing. They’re going to be their own lord if you will. They seemingly become self-willed and rebellious toward the order of the Host's will.
They begin to gain new converts so to speak, in great numbers, and nothing is going to stop them from their plan to take over. We call this actual biological phenomena is what we call “Cancer”! These terrorist or barbarous cells literally go into attack mode and start sapping the life out of the surrounding cells, killing as many as necessary in pursuit of their self-willed agenda. At first the effect of their violence upon their community of cells is slight and almost unnoticeable, causing some alarm, discomfort, and intermittent disturbance here and there. Regulatory norms are enforced by the greater community, and often these violent murderous outbreaks are remedied without bringing much attention or alarm to the neighboring cellular communities.
These cells usually reject these corrective measures and rebel even further, extending there influence ever outward. They begin to influence their surroundings in such a way the other members of that community and even other communities are alerted. The policing immune system is brought into play, and the local community has to call in specialists to eliminate these criminal cells in an attempt to protect the near by individuals, and the society at large. These are usually in the form of “anti-bodies” and white blood cells, that specialize in response to the types of violent rebellion these particular cellular individuals impose. Why try to eliminate them? Because of the inevitable threat they cause to individuals and to the greater society.
These terrorist calls literally bring a sort of chaos into the order of things, bringing distortion, perversion, and destruction to the work being done. If left on their own without being stopped they will continue to maliciously destroy and entirely take over. The forces alerted to remedy the problem will stop at nothing to prevent more senseless murder and mayhem and if necessary will even kill them. They even try surrounding them and trapping them as a first attempt by encapsulating them in a membrane or prison if you will.
If they get too powerful, or for some non-sensible reason are released, or break out of their captivity, or get away with their self-lordship too long, the cell’s lord, the human host, begins to take notice and likewise goes on alert. It likewise then takes any steps necessary to overcome or even kill the Cancer before it gets too powerful. It will irradiate, cut out, laser roast, or even chop off a limb in order to preserve the greater good and sometimes the life of the whole. Often times a number of good healthy citizen cells are called on to make the sacrifice of self for the greater good. Sometimes just the act of chasing down these devils and getting at them causes the sacrifice of good, innocent, healthy, cellular individuals. As tragic as this may seem it is the necessary price that must be paid to protect and save the most lives in the community.
So it is with God! Occasionally, God sees the development of a human cancer growing stronger and stronger. The appropriate members of the human community at large are being intimidated, persuaded, abused, and even eliminated. Sometimes He sees that resistance attempts have been, or will continue to be futile, and so He must step in and take action to save the many, to work the greater overall good, even though we may not fully comprehend the extent of this benefit at the time. When we have to go in and wipe out a cancer are we not grieved? There just are times when certain individuals or groups are determined to work their will against the wellbeing of others, or against the will and best interests of their Lord, and so He has to step in and fix the problem by getting rid of these human cancers, and by this He repairs the damage. Again, sometimes seemingly innocent individuals or perhaps many, may lose their lives as well. Sometimes this is necessary to maximize the optimal benefit to the many. Jesus understood this principle and so He willfully laid down His own “bios” life. Mahatma Ghandi understood this. Martin Luther King Jr. also understood this.
Thus, God is not a “murderer” because He calls for death or allows it. He is a Savior and Deliverer. He knows the end from the beginning and we do not.
In His love
brother Paul
Imagine the human body...each cell is an individual life form. They each function as part of a specific local cellular community (the heart, the lungs, the blood stream, etc.,). Different cells, and groups of cells (like humans), display differences in structure, appearance, life-span, function, etc.! Each cell in its relation to the other cells, and as a member of their particular cellular community, knowingly or unknowingly works as an intricate part of a whole (which is greater than the sum of its parts just like our communities). The human host, of which the cell is but a tiny seemingly insignificant part, is as the Lord is to us, in relation to the members of His body. We are the lord if you will from a cell's perspective. The individual cell’s instinctual purpose, like our own in His creation, is to work to maintain and protect its life, as well as the goals of its community life but in effect it is working our will and the end all of the purpose the serve in the one physical body.
One of the ways they assure their survival, and the continuation of their higher purpose is through self-replication or offspring. Their higher purpose is actually to achieve our will and our good, though they are most probably totally unaware, or only vaguely, that we, their human host, even exists. They understand little if anything about us personally, and our ways are higher than their ways, our thoughts are higher than their thoughts, if indeed it can be said that they even have any. They go about more or less doing the right thing in relation to one another unaware of the part they are playing in working within our overall purpose and will. Beyond their circumstantial perceptions they are working and interacting and helping to fulfill our long term plan.
Now then, each individual cell is created in our image. They contain the image of their host within each of them (in cells called DNA). They probably can sense an order and function interactively to enhance their mutually dependable existence. The span of their existence may be miniscule in relation to their human host, but to them it is a lifetime.
NOW sad as this truth is, every once in a while, a cell or some group of cells, decides they are going to do their own thing. They’re going to be their own lord if you will. They seemingly become self-willed and rebellious toward the order of the Host's will.
They begin to gain new converts so to speak, in great numbers, and nothing is going to stop them from their plan to take over. We call this actual biological phenomena is what we call “Cancer”! These terrorist or barbarous cells literally go into attack mode and start sapping the life out of the surrounding cells, killing as many as necessary in pursuit of their self-willed agenda. At first the effect of their violence upon their community of cells is slight and almost unnoticeable, causing some alarm, discomfort, and intermittent disturbance here and there. Regulatory norms are enforced by the greater community, and often these violent murderous outbreaks are remedied without bringing much attention or alarm to the neighboring cellular communities.
These cells usually reject these corrective measures and rebel even further, extending there influence ever outward. They begin to influence their surroundings in such a way the other members of that community and even other communities are alerted. The policing immune system is brought into play, and the local community has to call in specialists to eliminate these criminal cells in an attempt to protect the near by individuals, and the society at large. These are usually in the form of “anti-bodies” and white blood cells, that specialize in response to the types of violent rebellion these particular cellular individuals impose. Why try to eliminate them? Because of the inevitable threat they cause to individuals and to the greater society.
These terrorist calls literally bring a sort of chaos into the order of things, bringing distortion, perversion, and destruction to the work being done. If left on their own without being stopped they will continue to maliciously destroy and entirely take over. The forces alerted to remedy the problem will stop at nothing to prevent more senseless murder and mayhem and if necessary will even kill them. They even try surrounding them and trapping them as a first attempt by encapsulating them in a membrane or prison if you will.
If they get too powerful, or for some non-sensible reason are released, or break out of their captivity, or get away with their self-lordship too long, the cell’s lord, the human host, begins to take notice and likewise goes on alert. It likewise then takes any steps necessary to overcome or even kill the Cancer before it gets too powerful. It will irradiate, cut out, laser roast, or even chop off a limb in order to preserve the greater good and sometimes the life of the whole. Often times a number of good healthy citizen cells are called on to make the sacrifice of self for the greater good. Sometimes just the act of chasing down these devils and getting at them causes the sacrifice of good, innocent, healthy, cellular individuals. As tragic as this may seem it is the necessary price that must be paid to protect and save the most lives in the community.
So it is with God! Occasionally, God sees the development of a human cancer growing stronger and stronger. The appropriate members of the human community at large are being intimidated, persuaded, abused, and even eliminated. Sometimes He sees that resistance attempts have been, or will continue to be futile, and so He must step in and take action to save the many, to work the greater overall good, even though we may not fully comprehend the extent of this benefit at the time. When we have to go in and wipe out a cancer are we not grieved? There just are times when certain individuals or groups are determined to work their will against the wellbeing of others, or against the will and best interests of their Lord, and so He has to step in and fix the problem by getting rid of these human cancers, and by this He repairs the damage. Again, sometimes seemingly innocent individuals or perhaps many, may lose their lives as well. Sometimes this is necessary to maximize the optimal benefit to the many. Jesus understood this principle and so He willfully laid down His own “bios” life. Mahatma Ghandi understood this. Martin Luther King Jr. also understood this.
Thus, God is not a “murderer” because He calls for death or allows it. He is a Savior and Deliverer. He knows the end from the beginning and we do not.
In His love
brother Paul
Brother Steve and brother Mike.. I know and understand the conflict that you guys see in each others views and understanding of the truth. I delight in both you guys? I know why mike believes so strongly in these doctrines of unmovable faith, and that they do in fact move many mountains that others in the body of Christ have come to put in terms of trials or testing etc.. I came out of the WOF because I could see that much or these doctrines had become unbalanced from a overall understanding of the truth and especially the issue of love and humility. Me and brother Mike have had very strong debates along these issues. But I see in him a mighty zeal that God will conform and will work that which pleases Him. I am much inclined to agree with our friend, brother Steve on his understanding, but I do hope that some of what Mike is saying would be considered. As far a being a "pastor" I have no doubt about that calling on you brother Steve, but I have had titles offered to me as well and many other honors in ministry. I have also seen the compromise that always seems to go along with these titles. I hope you understand that the reason "pastors" are not honored are because of the "pastors" that have taken those honors and brought shame upon that title. I say to any pastor, stop trying to defend the title and those who use the title, bring honor back and have no fellowship with pastors who bring dishonor. Then we can restore the value of that title. Just as the problems in the church and our families are not others faults, the fault is with us Men, who have compromised to gain for ourselves. Let us be men of God, not in word or title but in power, truth and love and we will restore what has been broken down.
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