The "Are you a good person" quiz

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KingJ said:
That blanket condemnation clearly / sarcastically includes Ray and whoever preaches like this though. So its not really that rude and arrogant. I see it as an innovative attempt to start a discussion. We all need to repent and Ray makes that crystal clear. The only issue with the OP questionnaire was that the conclusion is having sin, gets us into hell. Jesus is not a bath we need to take. Jesus is someone we love over 'loving' sin.

I would say it does work on many. My judgment is that some of us are being too harsh on him ;).
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Matthew 28:19
"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and the Holy Ghost".

The purpose of Christians is to disciple all kinds of people reaching out to them so that they might realize they are lost and need to be saved.
 
Major said:
King....you said......"People go to hell because they love darkness / sin."

Wouldn't the sin of "un-belief" come in here somewhere???
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Of course! But un-belief gets very technical. Only really mature Christians can grasp it imho.

Un-belief is not the opposite of the belief the devils have in James 2:19. We need the belief Abraham had in Gen 15:6. Now trying to explain the difference....:giggle:. Its simpler just to say their heart is not after God's' or they loved darkness.
 
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PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I think the essence of my reason for starting this thread is basically this: If you are reaching out for people to become Christians, I don't think it's going to be very effective if you have them take a "quiz" which isn't really a quiz at all, but a blanket condemnation masquerading as a quiz. If you walked up to an unbeliever in the street and told them they were a liar, a murderer, a thief and an adulterer, they would have two words for you (and they wouldn't be "happy birthday"). They would feel tricked by that quiz and ultimately judged by someone who doesn't know them.

That is NO WAY to bring people on board with Christianity. It appeals to guilt, blame, shame and negativity. And worse than that, it doesn't work, and serves only to push people AWAY from Christianity.
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Isaiah 6:8 Then I heard the voice of the LORD saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us? And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Then of course there is Romans 10:14 (ESV)
14 "How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? "
 
KingJ said:
Of course! But un-belief gets very technical. Only really mature Christians can grasp it imho.

Un-belief is not the opposite of the belief the devils have in James 2:19. We need the belief Abraham had in Gen 15:6. Now trying to explain the difference....:giggle:. Its simpler just to say their heart is not after God's' or they loved darkness.
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What then do we do with Romans 10:14?
 
KingJ said:
That blanket condemnation clearly / sarcastically includes Ray and whoever preaches like this though. So its not really that rude and arrogant. I see it as an innovative attempt to start a discussion. We all need to repent and Ray makes that crystal clear. The only issue with the OP questionnaire was that the conclusion is having sin, gets us into hell. Jesus is not a bath we need to take. Jesus is someone we love over 'loving' sin.

I would say it does work on many. My judgment is that some of us are being too harsh on him ;).
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There was nothing sarcastic about what I said. I meant it very sincerely. The Ray Comfort style, harsh though it is, is in no way tailored for the unbeliever. I'm sure I'm very correct in saying that if you subscribe to his form of Christianity, you're coming from another form of Christianity where you've already been told of man's sinful nature. So you may not be as adverse to hearing about your own shortcomings.

No, I think the unbeliever must start of from a position of feeling they need God and his unconditional love before hearing anything about sin and repentance. I think it needs to happen in that order otherwise there would be a lot more atheists in this world.
 
Major said:
Isaiah 6:8 Then I heard the voice of the LORD saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us? And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Then of course there is Romans 10:14 (ESV)
14 "How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? "
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I am in no way condemning preaching. The issue here is the style of preaching.
 
Major said:
What then do we do with Romans 10:14?
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It is difficult to explain how someone 'cannot believe in God', when all believe in God / devils believe in God / have no excuse Rom 1:20. It is easier to explain unbelief in Jesus.

1. Unbelief in Jesus = 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Making unbelief in Jesus = someone who rejects Jesus = failed the session of God's judgment Jer 17:10 / did not let Jesus in Rev 3:20.

2. Unbelief in God. Here is my stab at it :cautious:.... On the one hand we have Rom 1:20 that says all believe in God as all have seen evidence of Him all around them. But yet not all could say what Jonah did in Jonah 4:2 'I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil'.

Likewise Abraham would not have gone to the level he did in sacrificing his son... if he believed God was evil. It is because Abraham believed God was good, like Jonah. It is because Abraham believed in / had a revelation of who God actually is.

Making unbelief in God = someone who rejects God = failed a session of God's judgment Jer 17:10.

So when we preach about Jesus / good God we are preaching about a God they do not know. Following Rom 10:14. Which is good. But ...we cannot ignore that there is a reason they do not know. There is a reason we do know. The speaker is never technically us. God speaks through us. God reaches out to all mankind James 4:8. God uses us. Rom 10:14 is proof of that. God does not need us. Nobodies salvation is on our head.
 
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PeaceLikeaRiver said:
There was nothing sarcastic about what I said. I meant it very sincerely. The Ray Comfort style, harsh though it is, is in no way tailored for the unbeliever. I'm sure I'm very correct in saying that if you subscribe to his form of Christianity, you're coming from another form of Christianity where you've already been told of man's sinful nature. So you may not be as adverse to hearing about your own shortcomings.

No, I think the unbeliever must start of from a position of feeling they need God and his unconditional love before hearing anything about sin and repentance. I think it needs to happen in that order otherwise there would be a lot more atheists in this world.
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Never said you were sarcastic. The underlined is exactly what they are doing.

You need to grasp their sin focused sarcasm. Obviously they too are guilty of it. Thinking of a woman :ROFLMAO:.
 
KingJ said:
It is difficult to explain how someone 'cannot believe in God', when all believe in God / devils believe in God / have no excuse Rom 1:20. It is easier to explain unbelief in Jesus.

1. Unbelief in Jesus = 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Making unbelief in Jesus = someone who rejects Jesus = failed the session of God's judgment Jer 17:10 / did not let Jesus in Rev 3:20.

2. Unbelief in God. Here is my stab at it :cautious:.... On the one hand we have Rom 1:20 that says all believe in God as all have seen evidence of Him all around them. But yet not all could say what Jonah did in Jonah 4:2 'I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil'.

Likewise Abraham would not have gone to the level he did in sacrificing his son... if he believed God was evil. It is because Abraham believed God was good, like Jonah. It is because Abraham believed in / had a revelation of who God actually is.

Making unbelief in God = someone who rejects God = failed a session of God's judgment Jer 17:10.

So when we preach about Jesus / good God we are preaching about a God they do not know. Following Rom 10:14. Which is good. But ...we cannot ignore that there is a reason they do not know. There is a reason we do know. The speaker is never technically us. God speaks through us. God reaches out to all mankind James 4:8. God uses us. Rom 10:14 is proof of that. God does not need us. Nobodies salvation is on our head.
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I agree with that!
 
KingJ said:
Never said you were sarcastic. The underlined is exactly what they are doing.

You need to grasp their sin focused sarcasm. Obviously they too are guilty of it. Thinking of a woman :ROFLMAO:.
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The underlined referenced above, to refresh, is "the unbeliever must start of from a position of feeling they need God and his unconditional love." But I don't see that being done by Ray Comfort nor the person who wrote this quiz. They focus instantly on bad, bad, bad, evil wicked sinner, murderer, thief, adulterer, bad, bad, bad. And you just aren't going to want to hear that from anyone at all if you are an unbeliever. Not at first.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I am in no way condemning preaching. The issue here is the style of preaching.
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But how can we condemn a "style" when it is nothing more than an extension of a personality. All of us are different. We all communicate in different ways. My experience over the years actually does agree with what you are saying but those people who do not particularly care for a certain teacher will move on to another church that he finds is more in tune with his thinking and personality. We gravitate toward those things that are like us.

All man does is tell the story of God and the gospel of the Lord Jesus and allows the Holy Spirit to convince the lost man of his sin so that he can then be saved.

John 16:7-11
"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."
 
Major said:
But how can we condemn a "style" when it is nothing more than an extension of a personality. All of us are different. We all communicate in different ways. My experience over the years actually does agree with what you are saying but those people who do not particularly care for a certain teacher will move on to another church that he finds is more in tune with his thinking and personality. We gravitate toward those things that are like us.

All man does is tell the story of God and the gospel of the Lord Jesus and allows the Holy Spirit to convince the lost man of his sin so that he can then be saved.

John 16:7-11
"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."
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I am thinking it not from the viewpoint of the person preaching but the person being preached to. You can attract people to Christianity with a positive message or you can drive them away further with a message of doom and judgement. I'm thinking strictly of the effectiveness of the method.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I am thinking it not from the viewpoint of the person preaching but the person being preached to. You can attract people to Christianity with a positive message or you can drive them away further with a message of doom and judgement. I'm thinking strictly of the effectiveness of the method.
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I hear you and understand what you are saying.

Let me ask you this......when is the appropriate time to speak to someone on doom and judgment, or is there a time?
 
Major said:
I hear you and understand what you are saying.

Let me ask you this......when is the appropriate time to speak to someone on doom and judgment, or is there a time?
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I would say after you have expressed a message of God's infinite love and forgiveness.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I am thinking it not from the viewpoint of the person preaching but the person being preached to. You can attract people to Christianity with a positive message or you can drive them away further with a message of doom and judgement. I'm thinking strictly of the effectiveness of the method.
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True, but there are some people who will only react to the 'doom and judgement' style of evangelism.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I think the word "react" is awfully well-chosen here!

That's kind of what it's all about, the reaction you're going to elicit based on your methodology.
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Hence the reason for the Holy Spirit to lead us in reaching out. Only He knows how the person will respond. The ground has to be ready.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Are people familiar with this online quiz?

http://www.goodpersontest.com/

I find it offensive in the extreme, but before I get too far into my issues with it, I'll give some of you the chance to take it so we can compare notes.
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I took the quiz and I am aware of Ray Comfort and Cameron's ministry. That test was meant for unbelievers. The only part I didn't agree with was the anger and murder question. That is going a bit overboard. We can be angry, it just depends how we respond to that anger.

I use to do door to door witnessing and it is very similiar to street corner witnessing. You claim you like for people to get to know you and then notice by your actions that they should be saved? What if that takes months or days and during that time the person dies? I would rather share the gospel right away then take that chance this person has never heard it.
 
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