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The Apostle Paul

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Nathan Hellrung, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. First, I'm new to the group and want to say, blessings to all of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

    Second, I've been dealing with someone lately who has been making claims that Paul was a false teacher. I've also seen many more (since my initial discussion with this person) people who also claim the same thing, that Paul was a false teacher. Has anyone on here ever dealt with someone claiming this? If so, what was your response?
  2. 2 Peter 3:14-18New King James Version (NKJV)
    Be Steadfast
    14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
    17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
    To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
    calvin, Big Moose and C1oudwatch3r says Amen and like this.
  3. Welcome, Nathan.
    I haven't heard much of this, but I have heard some people hinting at it at least. Considering that Paul wrote quite a lot of the New Testament, it would only follow that if Paul was a false teacher, then the New Testament can't be taken seriously anymore.

    Who are the people that you've encountered that make this claim? Do they claim to be Christian or something else? If it's something else, then I'd start further back. If they are Christians, then I'd begin questioning what source of Christian practice they learn from. If they say the Bible, ask why.
  4. This person specifically claims to be a follower of Christ and only cares for what Christ said and what the original 12 disciples taught. He holds Christ in high regard but questions the validity of the Bible (which Christ himself told his followers to keep in John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.) because Jesus never said the actual words, "God wrote the Bible". The guys reasoning is extremely illogical. It's like his reasoning hinges on only what Jesus himself said. It's extremely frustrating dealing with this guy's reasoning. He just won't back down.
  5. Yea, I informed this guy that Peter approved of Paul's teachings but he doesn't want to listen.
  6. Gotcha.
    Well, if this individual wants to follow Christ, he has to stick to what Jesus said in John 1:21-23 where he told the disciples that as the father sent Him, He is sending them. The mission didn't end when the disciples were martyred. Each of them went on to teach more people, many of their own students recounted Paul's work as valid in their writings. Not to mention the direct connection at least one of the apostles had with Paul first hand.

    I hate to say it, but your friend is being prideful.
  7. Agreed. Thanks.
  8. I wonder if he read the Old Testament was well?

    Hebrews for one relates a lot about Jesus to the Old Testament....
    Nathan Hellrung likes this.
  9. Never heard of that one, but as Lysander has alluded to, if you follow a train of logic then...

    assuming that Paul was a false teacher-> Paul's letters have no value ->
    the councils that compiled the Bible accepted Paul's letters as inspired -> the councils were wrong ->
    the Bible as a whole is suspect -> Christian doctrine is false

    Take any footing out from under a building the whole structure falls down.
    C1oudwatch3r likes this.
  10. Because there is a lot of what Jesus said that refers to the Old Testament…
  11. Very well put.
  12. Exactly.
  13. Very well said, agree completely.
  14. I think it's a good idea to get to the root reason of why a person rejects Paul's authority and it usually is very basic. I know of some Christians who reject Paul because they think he is misogynistic etc.
  15. Actually I have confronted many people who have said what you stated. If you read some more on this site you will probably see it here as well.
    There is a reason for it and it usually comes from the group of people who want to mix law with grace. The "Judiazers" believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, along with the worship of Jesus.

    But Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible.
  16. However, all of Hebrews is to encourage the Jewish believers who came to Christ to STAY with Christ and to not go back to the Mosiac system.
  17. I have run into this with some Messianic Christians that came from a very strong Orthodox Jewish background.... See.. They have been taught their entire lives that Belief in God works this one way... Then - they get to Paul - and he says it works a completely DIFFERENT way... A way that their scribes and sages really don't say anything about.... and it's really hard to accept....

    The first thing you have to remember.... Paul wrote to Gentiles... Gentiles didn't necessarily know WHAT is at the basis of Judaism... and they had no real idea what this belief is all about.... and having to wade through the entire Septuagint can be pretty tough... There's really no ONE book in there like Romans - where it explains "What do we believe"....

    #1. Don't worry too much about it. If they love Jesus with all their heart, soul, and volition - He will sort them back out.....

    #2. Get more familiar with the Old Testament.. ESPECIALLY the Torah... 99.5% of Paul's writings come straight out of the Old Testament.... You have to become quite familiar with the Old Testament to understand how he builds his arguments and where he builds them from...

    But.. Once you become much more familiar with the Old Testament - you will have no trouble with Paul.
    C1oudwatch3r likes this.
  18. Ask him if he believes ANY of the Bible! How can he pick and choose what parts to believe when it was the Holy Ghost who inspired all of it?
    2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
  19. I am female and while I used to struggle with some of Paul's teachings for women, now that I am older, I understand them more and accept them. If more of the church accepted those teachings, we might not be where we are today socially....
    Big Moose likes this.

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