the american dream

I suppose thats where those american 'visionaries' come from, like Walt Disney, making their own magic kingdoms. All artificial of course.
People then buy in. I recall he made his own town called Celebration which was meant to be this model perfect society.

I kinda thought the american dream involved making big money...becoming a CEO, being able to afford a house or two, plus family, picket fence, fame and fortune.
Or it could be the pursuit of happiness. All wordly and fleeting, but a carrot stick all the same.
It didnt seem to be about helping the poor or disadvantaged in any way. that might be something else, philanthropy I suppose, after making ones fortune. Like Bill Gates.
 
We see what's happening to america and their dream and even to the basic american church, they do what is right in their own eyes, they are not in God's Word, they are not being doers of the Word. There is no power in their churches. America is falling apart. I'm not just trying to be mean, I am praying for our leaders and churches.
 
There are good things about america, of course. But im very skeptical of the american dream.
I have a cousin in america, works on wall st. He got married to american and they have one child. Course he makes loads of money, but they now split up.

They didnt have the big house though. They had two apartments in nyc instead...

The houses in america are HUGE. For even normal family. Ones that big here would be considered mcmansions.
I just know heaps of americans in my circle of acquaintances and most ALL of them had troubled marriages, dysfunctional families. They seem very driven ppl. I wonder why this is. Chasing after dreams?
 
We see what's happening to america and their dream and even to the basic american church, they do what is right in their own eyes, they are not in God's Word, they are not being doers of the Word. There is no power in their churches. America is falling apart. I'm not just trying to be mean, I am praying for our leaders and churches.
I made a mistake here and feel convicted, if I can't speak from a place of love I should not speak at all, so forgive me
 
The thing that made America the land of the dream was that the fathers of America purposefully threw away the cast and aristocratic systems of Europe and denied right to rule by virtue of who one's rather is/was. No caste system. No nobility by birth. A person's life is theoreticaly potentially determined by personal ability. Of course we do not always live up to our potential, and it originally only applied to males of European extraction. We have been struggling ever since to expand that equality to include other races and women. We also struggle to even define how we turn potential into actual in the case of the poor/disenfranchised. I believe that this is a noble struggle, even if it is a temporal and not eternal concern.
 
Is that what is called a meritocracy?
I suppose there's good things about that but then again only applies to certain groups of people.
I suppose america is the land of dreams for new immigrants - anywhere is better than where they came from. I suppose that's why my cousin went there, to make his fortune.
Also called the land of opportunity.
That prolly wasn't the case for those that went there to be slaves!
 
I once saw my America as the land of plenty and now I see it as the home of the beast with churches riding on the beast like the great whore. They are the twisted sister of the Bride of Christ. Everyone seems drunk on coporate Kool-aid and are about to become deathly ill from it as it sours in thir bellies.
 
My grandmother could never bring herself to say a bad thing about anyone, even if it was true. My wife says that I am too trusting and unable to attribute bad intentions to anyone. I don't see it that way. According to 1 Corinthians, Love believes all things. I believe that each person I meet is trying to do right in their own eyes. Sometimes their goals are bent and the means they employ are wrong-headed. They need the Lord to truly do right, but the problem is not that most people wish bad on anyone.

I believe that society is how individuals interact. Believing the individual in front of you is just trying to get along and worthy of our Lord's blood causes many to try to live up to that image. Treat the unbelieving as the enemy and few will be led to Christ.

The American dream is each individual working in their enlightened self interest. If you mistrust the dream of your community, how can you respect its individuals?
 
I suppose working for the enlightened self is a lot different from serving the Lord. You may have good intentions...but that road does lead to hell.

I just learned in my journey that that christians are actually need to be selfless, self is satans way of tempting us to put our own selves first before anyone else. Self-interest. I was also brought up with that mindset...to stand on my own two feet, to be self reliant. To look out for number one and rely on myself.

Jesus always listened to his Father, he did not come here to further his own interests.
 
I just like to ask any americans on this forum...what exactly is the american dream?
And...are you living it?
Or is it just an illusion?

Does it have anything to do with Martin Luther King's speech?

Is it possible that America in the 1800s was differentiated from all other countries around the world (Exceptionalism) because it protected life and liberty as “natural rights,” also protected property rights in variance?

If “natural rights” would have been expanded to protect “property” the same way our Bill of Rights protected “life and liberty” we would still be a country of “Exceptionalism” today.

People often say that the “American Dream is micro-economics in action (or financial success realized),” yet instead, it was “natural rights which protected the “just-opportunity” to engage micro-economics without legal plunder or despotism to interfere.” Without the protection of “life, liberty and property” there is no dream on earth; for natural rights are “ownership rights from God” which include the liberty to worship, assemble, speak, write, give grievances, and prosper.

Modern day colleges, media, Wikipedia and many movies have fallen in variance to socialistic definitions which have forgotten the foundation of Natural Rights. The world now embraces socialistic terminology that would construe the premise of Natural Rights.

Though America in her beginning was indeed flawed, she was also indeed “exceptional to offer a Dream” as the first nation in the history of the world that would on a strong national level embrace “natural rights.”

I am hopeful that my fellow Americans will remember our roots again, but this time without hideous slavery, compulsory banks, arbitrary power, and unjust law; an embedded hope that we will be moved to support Natural Rights again but also to protect individual property the same way we did for life and liberty.

I believe the church is the last line of defense in these perilous socialistic times before despotism eviscerates what’s left of our liberty. I will argue that it is often that the Christian church is the chieftain of "ethical non-aggression" which provides the tangible and natural defenses in any country: for it was the Christian church that pioneered natural rights from scripture all through history and was able in variance with an ethical and benign stance to push back the death-throes of despotism that would destroy the innocent in many regions around the world. I go to my church freely today because many suffered despotism to the death in their ethical benign defense of liberty, including Christ who is the catalyst for liberty.

What church will stand up for what is good, what is pure, and what is just? If we can, then in that country or my own, the exceptional status can exist again and maybe unto more pure manifestations; for it is my hope that despotism will diminish and ethical liberty will flourish.

Is it possible that Martin Luther King also in part stood for "natural rights?" Thus in part he stood for the American Dream.
 
Well I do want to know what Martin Luther King talked about in his 'i have a dream' speech, is that the american dream?

That they can all call each other brothers? To live and love without fear? Or is it something else?
Maybe I look it up. I just thought you americans would know, cos you grew up there. And probabky memorised his speech. I know he did talk about righteousness and justice using words from the Bible.
 
I just like to ask any americans on this forum...what exactly is the american dream?
And...are you living it?
Or is it just an illusion?

Does it have anything to do with Martin Luther King's speech?

A·mer·i·can dream
noun
the ideal that every US citizen should have an equal opportunity to achieve success and prosperity through hard work, determination, and initiative.

I'd say that I'm living it. I've worked hard all my life and it has paid off well for me.
 
ok..cool, what do you mean paid off well? Are you now retired and living the good life?
Not retired yet. My hard work has enabled me to have a high paying career, large house, and land that has a river running on it. I can't realistically imagine having it better.
 
Do you have a large family to live in your large house as well?
It's good to have a sizeable piece of land. Will you leave it to your children?
 
Is that what is called a meritocracy?
I suppose there's good things about that but then again only applies to certain groups of people.
I suppose america is the land of dreams for new immigrants - anywhere is better than where they came from. I suppose that's why my cousin went there, to make his fortune.
Also called the land of opportunity.
That prolly wasn't the case for those that went there to be slaves!

Meritocracy? Ok, but that is more of a description than a definition, and it is only one side of it. Americanism and the dream that it inspires is also about aiding those that have not fared as well.

There seems to be a lot of distrust of ‘the other side’ of the have/have-nots. Some people on the lower half of the income scale see those at the top as getting there through unfair privilege. Some at the top see those at the bottom as being there because they are too lazy to apply themselves and spend too much on beer and other strong drink. You can find examples of both stereotypes. I do not believe that either view is accurate, or fair.

And there are many things that distort the theoretical. A wealthy man who has an impoverished son is likely to be thought a miser. If he provides a first class education and sees to the career of his offspring, his children are thought to be given unfair advantages.

And there is the ‘Peter Principle’ that holds that within an organization, as long as an employee is successful, he will be given promotions. Eventually that employee will rise to the point where he is only mediocre, or even incompetent. The end result is the so-called dead-wood people that used to be productive but are now just extra drag.

None of these concerns with climbing the corporate ladder mean that the persons trying to make the best life they can for their family are evil or back-biting. It's just that the world is competitive. I would agree that it is too competitive, but that doesn't mean doing one's best and being trustworthy to your employer is being wrongly motivated.

For myself, I never made it into management. In fact I avoided it. I assessed early on the cost getting a degree would have on my marriage and on the time and quality of time spent with my kids. I chose not to work toward a degree, but to keep my reputation as a dependable, talented performer and team player. I did keep going to school, but on my terms. Eventually the University I was taking courses at wanted me to enter a degree program or be content with lower level studies. I found other avenues.

I wrote a lot of computer code. I designed a lot of modules, taught a lot of young programmers how to be productive, I became a quality engineer, and finally performed Independent Validation & Verification tasks. I did well in IV&V because I was seen as a straight forward reviewer, not trying to unfairly criticize, and I could accurately report back to project management rather than simply find fault. So I progressed without climbing the corporate ladder. I could have climbed higher if I had rolled everything up into an advanced degree, but that is not success for me. I put away for rainy days. I had something to fall back on when it rained. Still the American Dream. I did not climb over anyone else to do it.

House? I have three roofs, and one small mortgage:
one is the townhouse I had when I was working.
About 18 months before my job ended, I bought a small home farther out on a couple of acres, I intend to stay here. Never sold my townhouse since the market was pretty bad. I let my son who has a lower paying job stay there. He is out now and I will be selling.
And last year my wife's sister was moving out of the house my wife grew up in. Its special to her so I cashed in some of my rainy day fund and bought it for us.

So, even though I have had challenges, the American Dream is alive here.
 
Well I do want to know what Martin Luther King talked about in his 'i have a dream' speech, is that the american dream?

That they can all call each other brothers? To live and love without fear? Or is it something else?
Maybe I look it up. I just thought you americans would know, cos you grew up there. And probabky memorised his speech. I know he did talk about righteousness and justice using words from the Bible.

King sometimes would refer to natural rights, often times to God's love, and occasionally to wretched Socialism.
 
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