The “mark of the beast” and 666 are not the same.

hey there guys,

revelation was written to prepare God's people for a time of persecution from the Roman Empire. Using a common method of giving letters a numeric value, the Emperor Nero's name equals "666". Since revelation was written after Nero's persecution, it may be that his name was associated with the religious persecution and the Roman Empire that "666" would have warned the readers that someone like Nero would come in the future, bringing great harm upon the church.

the first beast out of the sea symbolizes a person with political and social power, and the second beast out of the earth is one with religious or spiritual power.

signs on the hand and head held religious symbolism for Jews, with symbolic marks spoken of in Ex 13:9 and Deut 6:8, 11:8. the hand and head refer to a wholehearted commitment of mind and actions to God. To counter this, the beast commands that everyone must receive his mark.

be blessed,

steadywalking
 
steadywalking said:
hey there guys,

Revelation was written to prepare God's people for a time of persecution from the Roman Empire. Using a common method of giving letters a numeric value, the Emperor Nero's name equals "666". Since Revelation was written after Nero's persecution, it may be that his name was associated with the religious persecution and the Roman Empire that "666" would have warned the readers that someone like Nero would come in the future, bringing great harm upon the church.

The first beast out of the sea symbolizes a person with political and social power, and the second beast out of the earth is one with religious or spiritual power.

Signs on the hand and head held religious symbolism for Jews, with symbolic marks spoken of in Ex 13:9 and Deut 6:8, 11:8. the hand and head refer to a wholehearted commitment of mind and actions to God. To counter this, the beast commands that everyone must receive his mark.

Be blessed,

steadywalking
Click to expand...

Great post, Yes, I think so too - here is an edited reprise of an earlier post I wrote that ties Nero to Rev Chapter 17. The early Christians understood Revelation - we have to recreate from history the mentality that they existed in.

Rev. 17:9-11 (NASB)
"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, [10] and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. [11] "And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

The first verse is easy and simple – Rome was built on seven hills. An indirect reference to the beast which was Rome. A chart of these Kings from that historical period is...

1. Tiberius - fallen 1.

2. Caligula - fallen 2.

3. Claudius - fallen 3.

4. Nero - one who was, is not, and is to come for a little, who also was an eighth, but was of the seven, making Nero both one of the seven and the eighth.

5. Vespasian – fallen 4.

6.Titus - fallen 5.

7.Domitian - the one who is, Nero reincarnated, therefore an eighth – belonging to the seven, yet symbolically having Nero reincarnated in him making Domitian both a seventh and an eighth.

So the eighth is Domition after his "incarnation" of the spirit of the cruel Nero. The historical information you must know to understand this chart is the fact that it was a very common belief among the Romans in that day that Nero was expected to be reincarnated. The Nero redivivus or resurrection myth was widely and continually perpetuated for a period of over twenty years.

Historian William Durant said that Domitian ..."began like Gabriel and ended like Lucifer." Domitian reigned from AD 81-96. Something happened to change Domitians character in the year AD 86 after an attempted take over by Saturninus. Durant says that this was the turning point between his better and worse selves. He had always been coldly severe, but now he slipped into cruelty. He then filled the Capitol with statues of himself, announced the divinity of his father, brother, wife and sisters as well as himself. Set up a new order of priests to attend to the worship of these new deities and required officials to speak of him in their documents, as Dominus et Deus Noster – our Lord and God. This caused a general rebellion in the empire and was especially problematic to the Christians. It was in AD 93 that Domitian executed some Christians for refusing to offer sacrifice before his image. This was the beginning of the "incarnation" of Nero. Something that God foresaw and warned the early Christians about in the book of Revelation.

Rome had a practice of dealing with the leadership first, which would mean that John was the first to be dealt with in Asia Minor possibly in 92 AD or maybe as late as 93 Ad . By the way, Asia Minor had the highest concentration of Christians in the first Century (Eerdmans History). The time lapse is unknown, but John said it would happen "shortly" - how long is shortly? Was it several months, a year, or a couple years? From the time the scroll of Revelation was written, smuggled out of Patmos, was duplicated by hand by copyists and distributed to the seven Churches and read by all the many cell groups - I could see that it could have easily taken half of a year. And even longer if the boats were all moored for the winter.

The interpretation given here also ties the writing of the book to the time of Dometian and not the earlier date of Revelation before the fall of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 AD. One complaint is that the list of emperors is not complete - remember that John is not accurately using historical data - he is only using historical and Old Testament history as symbols. Example: when he lists the 12 tribes of Israel - it is not acorrect listing. Julius Casear (not an emperor), Augustus (first Emperor), Galba, Otho, and Vitellius (these three were short term) are not included.

Rev. 13:18 (NASB)
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

1. It's something that you have to "Calculate" and it was common in that day to use numbers to represent letters. Not so much in our day.

2. It is the number of "A" man – singular according to translations.

3. The calculated (added) numbers of his name totals 666.

Fr. Patrick J. Sena says that the Hebrew totals for Nero Caesar add up to 666 – but it is spelled Neron in Hebrew and not in the Latin used by the Romans which only uses one "N". Remember the writer John thought in Hebrew and Aramaic and translated to Greek in his writing. Some ancient manuscripts use 616 because they did not include the final Hebrew N of Neron (50) in their translation.

So 666 indicates "Nero" who is now dead in the suggested time line. But the scripture says that the seventh now is, "Domitian" and the eighth is yet to come. It is saying that Domitian is on the throne, but his time of cruelty toward the Christians had not yet taken place and didn’t until 93 when he became reincarnated with the "spirit" of Nero. He then became the eighth. The end of Rev 17:11 says... and he goes to destruction. This is a Prophesy of the demise of Domitian in 96AD, who was assinated. One would have to be very careful of making such statements under occupation. This of course is the reason for using apocalyptic language to encode the message.

And of course there is also the general understanding that six is the number of man and triple six means total depravity. But this given interpretation addresses every word of the Prophesy within the context of the historical record.

Larry II
 
There are so many theories and views on this it could make one dizzy. That is indeed an interesting train of thought though Larry.
 
Boanerges said:
That is me in the dryer!:p
Click to expand...

I blew up the image - can't be you! No beard and you are better looking.

Larry

dryerA.gif
 
I was thinking of staying away from this, but as I read, certain things came to mind. According to the accounts I have researched, Nero came into power in the mid 40's and committed suicide in mid 68 A.D. If John wrote Revelation during the beginning of 68, Nero would have been dead by the time it was circulated. If the warning to the Christians was strictly about Nero, then the timing would have been considerably off. Example: If someone wrote something now telling us that Bin Laden was going to attack Washington, D.C. and even gave the specifics, but didn't get it to anyone of any significance until after the attack, the warning would have lost all of its value.

In Wiki it says concerning the date of the writing of Revelation that it was between 68 and 96 A.D.:

Book of Revelation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to early tradition, the writing of this book took place near the very end of Domitian's reign, around 95 or 96. Others contend for an earlier date, 68 or 69, in the reign of Nero or shortly thereafter.[13] The majority of modern scholars also use these dates.[14] Those who are in favor of the later date appeal to the external testimony of the Christian father Irenaeus (d. 185), who stated that he had received information relative to this book from those who had seen John face to face. He says that the "it was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign" (A.H. 5.30.3), who according to Eusebius had started the persecution referred to in the book; however, recent scholars dispute that the book is situated in a time of ongoing persecution and have also doubted the reality of a large-scale Domitian persecution.[15]
Some exegetes (Paul Touilleux, Albert Gelin, André Feuillet) distinguish two dates: publication (under Domitian) and date of the visions (under Vespasian). Various editors would have a hand in the formation of the document, according to these theories. The dating of the work is still widely debated in the scholarly community.

But isn't the significance of the Book that it details the end of the age and Christ's return?
 
very good post peter,you would think people could control there posts ,spirit lead again to destroy the truth,keep washing guys ,you are being daft.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top