sound doctrine

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Lanolin, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. Larry!!! I have to tell you that some of your thinking is a lot different than mine.

    First of all, Why would you say that the 144,000 are the 5 wise virgins. Only because they are WOMEN? Men are virgins too!

    It seems to me that you are only quoteing the Scripture you want to use and are ignoring everything else. The 144,000 are Virgin, Jewish MEN.
    That is not me saying that my brother that is exactly what the Scriptures tells. Why would you feel the need to reject the words of God on this????

    Rev. 7:4.........
    "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

    That tells us that they are JEWISH!

    Revelation 14:4............
    "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

    That tells us that these 144,000Jews are MEN (Were not defiled with women). And they are VIRGINS.
    144,000 MALE, VIRGIN JEWS!
    Abdicate likes this.
  2. As we do to you Larry. We (I) do not have to agree on everything to love one another my brother.

    The only thing that has happened is that you have posted some rather, shall say different explanations than some of us are used to dealing with and you have been challenged to prove them against the Word of God. IF you choose to disagree then God love ya brother and we can and will talk about other Biblical things in the future.

    That does not mean we have beaten you at all. If we had beaten you, then you would be putting on band aids about now.
  3. No brother, I'm not making Mary the woman of Rev 12. I have a note in a study of Revelation below by Gene Hawkins:
    Now Ephesians 2:19 says it this way. "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God." But this is what we want to notice. The household of God includes those which are in heaven and those which are on the earth also. Ephesians 3:15 says, "Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." So Rev 12:1 shows that this woman is the part of God's kingdom in heaven, and Revelation 12:13-17 shows that same woman on the earth, or that part of the kingdom of God on the earth.

    As to Satan having all those babies killed at two years old, why did he wait? Rev 12:4 tells that Satan stood before the woman to kill him; somethings wrong in Jesus is the Man Child theory of Revelation chapter twelve.
    Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    Thanks brethren. :)
  4. I hope you all can see the relationship of the man child of Revelation chapter twelve and those that keep Jesus’ works below. At least the man child of Rev 12:5 meets the criterion of Rev 4:1.
    Jesus said "I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    Rev 2:27 And he (WHO? The one that keeps Jesus’ works?) shall rule them with a rod of iron. (Nations).

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    Don’t we have the inference in these verses that it is mankind ruling the nations?
  5. We who are the righteous will be ruling with Jesus, and Revelation 2:26-27 is telling us that. We will have the Lord's governing authority over the nations, executing His will over the people, bringing to the earth a time of peace as never before experienced.
    Major likes this.
  6. I have no idea who Gene Hawkins is my brother. I will say however that he is completely wrong when he says that the woman is a "Literal woman" on the earth. That is without any correct context at all.

    Yes something is very wrong. Lets consider the words in Rev. 12:1.

    THE GREAT WONDER IN HEAVEN. Right there should be your 1st clue to it not being a literal woman, Mary or anyone else.

    The WOMAN is actually on the earth but the wonder or sign is seen in heaven so that God's purposes concerning her may be made know from heaven. Two distinct features are given to us: Her clothing and her condition.

    First we see that see is clothed brilliantly with the heaven bodies and a crown; she is a mother with child and is in labor. When the Revelation is studies thoroughly it is seen that it pictures FOUR women and each one of them is in a representative capacity.

    "Jezbel" in 2:2 represents the clerical system at its height and so will say that means the Papal system.
    "The great Whore" in 17:1 is the corrupt apostate religious system.
    "The Wife" in 19:7 represents the Church in heaven which is the Bride of Christ.

    The 4th woman is the nation of Israel. As I have posted to you the Bible clearly identifies Israel with the vision given to Joseph.

    Now I do not know Gene Hawkins but I have studied Dr. T.A. Robertson, Matthew Henry, John Gill, H.A. Alford, Dr. Green and Dr. Magee they all say that the woman is Israel. Genesis, Isaiah, and Micah all identify Israel with the sun, moon and 12 stars.

    There is absolutely NO Biblical evidence that the woman is Mary. She never went through the experience seen in verse #6 for example. How could verse #17 even be applied to her.

    Then on top of that, the church did not give birth to Christ. He is the builder of the church not a Child of the church.
    Euphemia likes this.
  7. My brother. Your understanding and entrenchment focused on Rev. 4:1 is very suspect. Chapter 4: 1 and the words "I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" is How Jesus tells John what is about to happen in the future.

    The future with its blessings and woes is fixed. "Come up heither" IMO and most others is the Rapture of the Church to heaven.
    In fact when you consider the 1st 3 chapter and then #4 the scene itself changes FROM the earth to Heaven.

    Now as for Rev. 2:26 & 27.

    The authority of the saints over the nations here on the earth will take place during the Millennium.

    Jesus will sit on the throne of David and we who are believers will rule with Him for 1000 years. The over comer shall rule over the angry nations with a rod of iron. All nations will know that God is God and He sets in power and authority of all.
  8. Are you saying or inferring the woman in revelation is Eve?
    Just wondering. Im not entirely sure its meant to be Mary either.

    Because God put hostility between the woman and her enemy..something about crushing the serpents head, and he will strike her heel.

    The man child does not seem to be Abel though?
    However, Jesus did say, he saw satan fall from heaven like lightening. But i was thinking he meant at the fall, right from the beginning of time.
  9. The woman in Revelation 12 is none other than Israel.
    Arrie03 and Major say Amen and like this.
  10. I'm thinking it must be Eve because the last verse of that chapter says
    'And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ'.

    Remnant of her seed - we all had sprung from Eve who is the mother of all living...yet only those who keep the commandments (before Jesus appeared) and have his testimony (after) are the ones the dragon is angry with.
    Also previously it is mentioned about the great Flood. I don't know if Eve was still alive at the time of the great flood that Noah and his family were safe on the ark.
  11. They lived a long time back then.
  12. No it is not Eve---or Mary, but Israel.

    Revelation 12:13-17
    13 When the dragon realized that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman [ISRAEL] who had given birth to the male child. [JESUS]14 But she was given two wings like those of a great eagle so she could fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness. There she would be cared for and protected from the dragon for a time, times, and half a time. [3.5 YEARS]

    15 Then the dragon tried to drown the woman [ISRAEL] with a flood of water that flowed from his mouth. 16 But the earth helped her by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that gushed out from the mouth of the dragon. 17 And the dragon was angry at the woman [ISRAEL] and declared war against the rest of her children [JEWS]—all who keep God’s commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus.
  13. Good grief!
    Abdicate likes this.
  14. What do you think is the agenda behind those who reject such a clear and Biblical answer as the one you have given????
  15. I certainly agree with that, but I tend to get the idea that thought goes out the window the moment the "Man Child" and the woman of Rev 12:1 in heaven, and on earth of Rev 12:6 are spoken of. I'm not sure where you think I believe it is one certain woman, but as Gene Hawkins said: it is the total of believers in heaven and earth. How can we be talking of things future, and then believe it is talking of Jesus in the past?
    Also in Rev 12:6, I suppose we can assume the 1260 days the woman is protected is speaking of the second half of the tribulation?
  16. Dear Brother Major, I'm sorry to read the suggestion I have some agenda other than godly because I do not see scripture as you do. No need to reply; I'm through with this.
  17. I'm not really sure about that. 1260 days is about 3 and a half years?
    Jesus had about that time for ministry.

    Sorry I don't know who Gene Hawkins is. I just go by what the Bible is saying.
  18. If it is Mary, then that fits cos I think she was kept safe all that time Jesus was doing ministry, Also, Jesus was caught up to the throne when he was transfigured, both John and Peter witnessed this. He was to rule all nations yet satan tried to prevent him.

    So it could be Mary also. When Jesus was on earth he called himself the 'son of Man'.
  19. I don't know where the flood fits with it all if it's meant to be Mary. But being born again - we are her seed.
  20. NO. It doesn't fit Mary in any way. Mary wasn't in any danger!
    Major likes this.

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