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Something does not add up

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Juk, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. The Bible says that people will only believe the Gospel if God opens up their heart to it. If God has not opened up their heart to the Gospel, how can they be punished for unbelief? It's not a choice. Someone told me that God has opened up everyone's heart, but if that were the case, then more than half of the world, in fact, almost the entire world, would be Christians, because almost the entire world has heard the Gospel. If unbelievers don't believe because their heart is hardened, and their heart is hardened because God didn't open up their heart, how can they be blamed for unbelief? Something doesn't add up.
  2. Everyone has been given a choice to receive or reject truth. Holy Spirit's job is to speak to the spirits of men, and their spirits give birth to faith, but once that happens it becomes an act of the will (soul) to accept or deny following Jesus.
    Juk and Francis Drake say Amen and like this.
  3. In every heart there is a need. This need is GOD. God placed it there. Man how ever with his free will has to choose between filling this need with God or self. The devil is right there every step of the way trying to make sure that man always chooses self over God.

    God is constantly drawing every one to Him. Man ignores this and many Christians do as well. Every single day God is planting seed of His word and ways in this earth. Man has the right to ignore this or be drawn to this.

    Juk if God made it so every one would simply turn to Him and worship Him because He made them - then God would not have true love but a force loved kind of like making puppets do what ever He wished. God does not operate such as this. God desires our real Love He desires to be our FIRST LOVE and then everything else.
    God Bless
    Juk and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  4. God is fair. He will not condemn anyone who has not had the opportunity to make a free choice.
    God has a plan for the "innocent pagans" (i.e. those who have never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel), though
    it is not stated explicitly in scripture.
    Juk likes this.
  5. Something to remember is that every person on this earth is a decendant of adam. Therefore we all have this "God only" created hole within us. And man has decided to try to fill that "God only" place with things other than God. So in all reality every person already knows that there is a God. And if we can pray for all of God's lost sheep to be found by Him...then He will be pleased :)
    Juk, Euphemia and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  6. #6 Francis Drake, Jul 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
    Well spotted Juk.

    Here it is spelt out by Paul. Prior to already having the life of God within him, nobody can possibly comprehend what Jesus did on the cross.
    1Cor1v18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God.

    From the creation of the earth, Jesus has worked by the Holy Spirit in the hearts of man calling them to God.
    God still does that today, planting his seed, (sperma) in the heart of any willing recipient. It is that planting that first produces new life, long before anyone can possibly make sense of what the cross is about. Spiritually dead men cannot possibly comprehend the story of the cross!
    That is why the Holy Spirit is always at work in men's hearts, and their response is entirely down to their own hardness/softness of heart.
    1In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    This clearly refers to God the creator, who is Jesus, a long time prior to his incarnation!

    4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    Jesus is the light of the whole world!

    6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    This verse refers not merely to the physical Jesus we see walking in Gallilee, but to the logos, light of the world, the God who created all things. Receiving the creator God via the Holy Spirit brings new life to those living even in the darkest corners of the world.

    From that point, taking hold of the cross can turn a life of bondage into a life of salvation power.

    As a child born into a non christian home, I knew nothing of the gospel. One day whilst a child, the overwhelming love of God came so close to me in my bedroom, and I asked Him to never forget me. He kept his word.

    Another time in my early teens some kids were arguing about who went to heaven and who went to hell. One of the older boys who was an altar boy at the local church boldly stated, "that's easy, good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell."
    As he said that, it was as if a blanket of truth and understanding descended on me, and I clearly heard God speak that He lived in my heart not churches, and that although I was bad and everyone else was bad, God had made the way.

    A decade or so later when I got accosted by evangelists, I refused to listen because, after what God had told me, I didn't want anything to do with churches. It took me some time before I realised they were talking about the one I already knew!
    Only then did I become a Christian.
    Juk likes this.
  7. God gives us a choice to accept Christ as our saviour.
    There are others who reject Christ and seek other Gods, such as Allah etc...
    Some simply reject the idea of a divine being.
    Prayers with all who still need to accept Christ and realise His wonders.
    Juk, Fish Catcher Jim and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  8. Juk, you're falling into the devils trap of always questioning the word of God about "seeming" contradictions. You need to stop otherwise you're just going to reject it all at some point. Have faith in God and ask Him to reveal. If you keep coming to men, you're going to get men's answers. God wrote the word of God on our hearts and everyone knows what's right and wrong - we have the DNA from the that tree. Even 60 Minutes did an episode about babies knowing right and wrong!
    Heart_for_Christ, Lanolin, Major and 5 others say Amen and like this.
  9. Very well said my Brother
    God Bless
    Major and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  10. When I was looking at the thread, I believe God told me something.

    When people hear the Gospel, the Holy Spirit comes and "nudges" them (lack of a better word). Then it is their choice on whether to accept or reject the Holy Spirit (rejecting the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin). And if you check the story where Jesus talks about the unforgivable sin, it lines up.

    Not sure if it was God, but I'm pretty sure it was.
  11. It's Jesus we accept or reject. Even Christians who are on their way to heaven have lived lives of rejection to the Holy Spirit. It's all about Jesus.
    Juk likes this.
  12. I meant to reject the "nudge" of the Holy Spirit.
  13. Juk, only brain matter is needed to know right from wrong.

    Think of the boy born alone on an island with no access to any religion. He catches a fish. He has the power to either kill the fish as quickly as he can or let it die a slow and torturous death. If the latter he will not sleep properly at night. The act of evil he did will plague him.

    Gen 3:22 The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. God does not have to do anything. Our brain matter and perhaps a conscience of sort is already installed in us. We all have the power to have genuine love for God by hating what is evil or clinging to what is good Rom 12:9.

    It hit me like a ton of bricks when I first fully grasped that verse. You want to truly love God?? HATE what is evil. :). When that boy on the island hates what is evil he will repent. When he repents God pays him a visit. If God pays anyone a visit in the NT they see Jesus.

    God using us for the great commission I have always thought of as Him giving us an opportunity to get rewards in heaven. Us spreading the gospel of Jesus. It is that but it is also God doing the unsaved an extra favor. He can't wait to spill the beans. He can't wait for them to see what they are missing out on. God wants the unsaved to hate sin ...now / asap...to repent...now / asap...to be reconciled with Him now. That and the sanity of society are the chief reasons He uses / keeps us down here.
    Lanolin and Juk say Amen and like this.
  14. Romans 9:14-24
  15. What does that Scripture have to do with the topic?
  16. Even though it deals specifically with Israel's rejection of their Messiah (though not all of them did) and the justice of God, it contains some good guidance in the questions you asked. What you are questioning is the justice (or justness) of God. This text gives a rather direct approach.
    Juk likes this.
  17. I was reading the wrong chapter I think.
  18. :LOL: LOL. You know...when you asked that I checked to make sure I had quoted the right text. It's easy to hit a wrong key.
    KingJ and Juk say Amen and like this.
  19. Haha.
  20. It adds up. As said earlier, everyone knows the difference between right and wrong. His laws are on our heart. Unbelievers don’t believe because they love this world and their sin more than God. The sad part is this is true of every human and is why God, out of his mercy and for His purpose chose to save some out of the many (Eph 2; Matt 22:14). He has to remove our stony heart

    So your statement is correct, “people will only believe the Gospel if God opens up their heart to it.” This is because on our own none of us will believe the Gospel with all our heart and soul as God requires (Jos 22:5). We may think we believe for a while and then fall away but that is not real belief. This is what the parable of the sower is about (Luke 8). God opens the heart of His people and the word takes root (see also Eze 11:19-21).

    If God does not open up an individual’s heart to the Gospel it is because that individual was not elected to salvation (some made for honor and some not – Rom 9:20-23). That person’s name was not recorded in the Lamb’s book of Life, written before the foundation of the world.

    Like we did not choose to be born into this world. We cannot choose to be born into the next. Salvation is an unearned and undeserved gift from God. He has mercy on who He will (Ex 33:17, Ro 9:15). No one knows if they are elect or not. This is why we should all be “in the bible” as often as possible (Ro 10:17) and praying for salvation. The chosen are few relative to the all the people who ever lived on the earth but this is still a great multitude (Rev 19:6). If God saves us and opens our heart it is not because of our efforts but because of His purpose for us.

    To God be the Glory

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