Some Of My Friends Are Losing Their Religion. Very Long Thread.

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by blessedguy, May 14, 2013.

  1. Good day to all! Sorry for the grammar and this very long thread. I know it's probably too long for many but maybe if someone could help me with a few of these questions.

    I hope i'm putting this in the correct forum, if not I do apologize.

    I'm in my 30s and have been raised in a Christian family my entire life. I have always believed and prayed to Jesus Christ. However, I have just recently started reading my Bible on a daily basis.

    Recently my best friend had a cookout and several of my friends from college and high school attended. I attended a Christian school. My friends girlfriend said she doesn't believe in God. Some people shy'd away from the subject but I was the most vocal in defending my God and my belief.

    In all, I felt a little stupid because they kind of teamed up on me and my only defense was what God has done for me and people around me. I couldn't recite any scriptures or anything to defend my Lord.

    Why would God let a drunk person kill an innocent person in a car accident?

    Why would God allow innocent people to be killed in these masacre's?

    Why did He allow those innocent people to lose their limbs in the Boston Bombing?

    Why do I have a black friend who's the best person i've ever met and he's lost his sister to hiv, his brother to a bullet?

    My friend even said to me, why did you (me) work for a company for 8 years, they wrongfully fired me and I can't find another job. He said to me you have had to sell your tv's, furniture, you've moved into a very small place not on the best side of town. He said, i've saw you putting in applications, going to job fairs, you have a good resume' how come your going through all of this when you did nothing but help others and show up to work everyday.

    how can we pray and pray for someone with an illness and they still die?

    I was rushed with all these types of questions and to where I know the truth, God has everything happen for a reason, Jesus Christ went through way more than we could ever imagine, God likes to test our faith, etc....None of my answers convinced any of them and I was upset with myself because I couldn't recite anything from the Bible (my lack of knowledge of stories in the Bible).

    I'm moreso worried about my best friend, me and him speak daily. He's very involved in his church (teaching Sunday School, God saved him when he became dependent on prescription drugs, etc...). But, now it seems that he's starting to question things. When he started becoming involved with the church he was a new person for God, unfortunately as he's become closer to some preachers and deacons. I think he's saw another side of things. He spoke on how one preacher visited their church and put on all this hoopla. The preacher told showed him he made $800 for that one night. Then my friend saw a guy we went to school with who is preaching. He told him he makes $800 to $4,000 a week speaking at various church's.
    My friend is talking about preaching, but I feel its only for the money, he talks about money more than God. He's a very smart guy, once he was salesman at a company making over 100k a year before his addiction. He see's the vunerable people at these church's he attends and i think his idea is to get in their pockets more than to spread the teachings of Jesus Christ. How do I handle this friend? He knows way more than I do about the Bible. He's already spoke on some people getting jealous because he's starting to speak at church. Should I not say anything? i'm confused, I was so happy he changed his life and got in the church but now I think the devil is getting in him.

    sorry for all these questions, another thing he is ALWAYS saying. he believes God has blessed all rich people, he always says they must be doing something right and I don't know how to respond to that.

    For example there's been a few scandals on some of these megachurch preachers. I'll be saying i don't like how they are always begging for money, driving $250,000 cars, etc... But, my friend says God has blessed them for a reason, if they weren't living right God would've already took their fortune. My response is (i don't know if its right or wrong) but my response is...the devil is currently controlling our land but when Jesus returns many of those people will have their day.

    When the Bible says don't judge, I wonder am I wrong for saying this guy in the youtube video is the devil. My friend who's about to start preaching (not his own church but going to various non denomination church's) says creptlo dollar must be doing something right for God to continuously bless him.

    warning this video does have a couple of graphic images.

    I know my friend who's getting into preaching is going down the wrong road because he's always asking "i wonder how creflo, benny, those big congregations" "i wonder how they started...they must be making millions a month....God wouldn't bless them like that if they were doing wrong."

    I praise Jesus for everything! Thanks for your time, prayers, and help!
  2. First of, you need to understand that the comments and questions asked of you have been around for thousands of years. Man has always used those types of things to question the existance of God.

    Now the real question is WHY. Why does man question the existance of God???

    SIN! Man loves his sin and if he can convince himself that there is no God, then there is no judgment. BINGO!!
    He is then able to live a life of sin with a clear conceouse.

    You asked................
    Why would God let a drunk person kill an innocent person in a car accident?
    Why would God allow innocent people to be killed in these masacre's?
    Why did He allow those innocent people to lose their limbs in the Boston Bombing?
    Why do I have a black friend who's the best person i've ever met and he's lost his sister to hiv, his brother to a bullet?
    Bad things happen ALL people my friend. When it rains, everyone gets wet.

    You must realize that man has a freedom of choice and wicked, bad people do wicked things.

    Then you asked............
    how can we pray and pray for someone with an illness and they still die?

    Everyone has an appointement to die. It does not matter where you are or what you are. We all have that appointment.

    Hebrews 10:24
    "And it is appointed unto man once to die but after this the judgment".

    From your explination only because I do not know, but it does not sound like your friend was ever saved.
    Saved people do not act and talk like what you described.

    Then you must know that there are lots and lots of people who are in the ministry to make money. They see it as a way to better themselves instead of bettering their fellow man. It has been that way since Genesis and will be that way until Jesus comes again.
    Mr. Darby likes this.
  3. Without accepting the gift of salvation, the knowledge of God is foolishness to unbelievers....

    1 Corinthians .....
  4. Not to sound callous but your post is reminiscent of Luke 13. When some of His disciples reported to Lord Jesus about the Galileans who were slain at the temple along with their sacrifices by Pilate, then Jesus added the 18 that were killed by a falling tower in Siloam. Were these bad people, were they good people? Lord Jesus says “No, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

    You are going to die and people die every day. You start to die the day you are born so get over it. What’s sad isn’t that people die, what’s sad is that people die in their “SIN”. They don’t have a relationship with The Lord Jesus Christ, they don’t repent, their SINS aren’t Atoned, and they spend an eternity in hell with their “SIN” because of it.

    That is the good news of the Gospel, that is why sinners need the Gospel, because now you don’t have to die in your “SIN”. The ones whom The Lord Jesus loves and who follow Him, He has Atoned for their “SINS”. They and only they can enter the Kingdom of Heaven for all eternity.

    So the next time people are ganging up asking; “Why, Why, Why?”. Reply; “We live in a fallen world and unless you repent, you will all likewise perish, dead in your SINS.” Sometimes I can sound callous but it is what it is, and on that note that is what makes the good news of the Gospel sound so good. (actually, maybe you should know Scripture a bit better before you try that one)

    Anyway you acknowledge your lack of understand of the Scripture which is a good first step.

    So now you think that because people are rich they are blessed by God? Don’t you know God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the (supposed) wise? Don’t you remember Lord Jesus Himself said; “It’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven.”? Didn’t The Lord Jesus also say; “My Kingdom is not of this world.”? Being rich would be a deterrent for what the Christian ultimately seeks. So wouldn’t it make sense that only non-Christians would seek riches?

    The narrow road is narrow for a reason, because you can’t take anything on that road except yourself. The narrow gate is narrow for a reason, because only you all by yourself with nothing else can fit through it.

    Remember Proverbs 1; “So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way and be satiated with their own devices.” They want riches, they seek riches, they will get their riches and riches will destroy them. The Scriptures tells us the things of this world will only bring destruction. God will laugh at them and God will mock Them. They will call on His name when dread comes but God will not answer. They will seek God diligently, but they will not find Him at the time of their calamity and it’s the end of the road for them!

    Mr. Dollar and those like him are not blessed, but cursed by their own devices. What good does it for a man to inherit the whole world but loose his soul?

    Oh yes Matthew 7 1, which is probably the second most abused verses in Scripture by the Biblically illiterate. The context here is; “If you yourself are a thief, don’t go around judging other thieves”. However Lord Jesus also says in this same chapter; “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.”

    Hmmm, I see a man in a $2,000 suit, preaching the Word of God to get rich, driving a Rolls Royce to his private Jet, to get home to his multi-Million dollar mansion. I think I’ll go out on a limb here and “Judge”, this isn’t what Jesus had in mind when He spoke of “The Fruits of the Spirit”.
  5. Matt 5:12. I once stuttered in defending God. It is the biggest shame of my entire life. It irks me more then my biggest sins. God is everything to us. Dare we not stand up for Him properly.

    It is funny to think how the righteous want to die and go be with the Lord (Phil 1:21) whilst the evil want to hold onto this life as much as they can. A righteous person is kept living because God is using them. The evil, God gives them as much time as He can without showing partiality. God had the angels kicked out of heaven for a level of intent. When a human reaches that same level, God cannot keep them alive any longer lest He show preference to them. God shows preference to nobody (Acts 10:34). God has to sadly give them over to death. God is saddened by the fallen angels and all the evil that reject Him. They choose death. No death is random, even though it appears to be.

    Psalms 34:17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.

    As Christians we need to grasp the experience of Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego...God did not deliver them from the furnace, rather He was with them in it. As Major always says, God answers our prayers with a yes, no or later and He is always with us.

    About six years ago I was in a fight where a guy threw a brick at me. I blocked it with my hand ( I used to do kung fu), my ring finger broke in half, just skin holding it. I had so many pins put in and doc accidently shortened my tendon. Point is, I was in excruciating pain for two weeks!! I could not even sleep. I had taken so many painkillers that I saw them as worse then the pain. During those two weeks, I grew so close to the Lord. Having the option to curse Him and not cursing Him, throws us right into His presence spiritually. Most of our lives are spent without pain and suffering. Suffering in any form for a Christian must cause us to rejoice as it does cause us to grow closer to Him. God will not put us through anything we can't handle. Which means that if we are going through a lot, He thinks we can handle a lot...rejoice!! for great is our reward in heaven!

    How much closer will you be to a friend that gave you his last savings, took a punch for you... or to your wife taking all your calls even though she has an ear infection.

    It all depends where God needs us. Obviously our focus must not be money. I have so much mercy though for those guys you mentioned. Who here can honestly say they will not be corrupted by money? Most had good intentions starting out. I like Paul and Jesus's example set. They provided for themselves. It is a noble drive to want to preach all out at for the Lord. But dare we only select mega churches...:eek:. I would expect a good Christian preacher to give most of the money he made at the mega churches away, keeping only what is needed for a moderate lifestyle.
    comfy likes this.
  6. The only subject that I battle to explain is the suffering of babies, children and animals. Unlike adults they have not accepted or rejected God. They are neutral. As Major pointed out God gives us free will. God gives to both the good and evil, space to exercise their free will. The neutral and sinners are most vulnerable to acts of evil as God's people have His protection.

    When God protects me, He protects my household, which includes my neutral kids and pets. But if I was a satanist inviting demons into the house, I am pretty sure they could possess my kids. If it annoys you and I, we can be certain it does God too.

    One more thing....remember that Christians see / know God is ''good''. Sinners see / believe / brainwash themselves that God is bad. They don't judge God fairly or try look at the full picture. They don't want too.

    Sinner = God killed so many Egyptians. God is brutal and evil.
    Saved = God killed many Egyptians...that He warned many times. Sending plagues at increasing levels of severity. God is good and longsuffering.
  7. wow thanks so much for all the advice and help! sorry for my late reply, i've been trying to find a job and take care of bills. I thank Jesus for the first time in 2 months someone contacted me about a job. I go in for an assessment test in the morning! Ironically I posted a prayer request yesterday! Thanks


    Thanks a lot yes I feel like I knew why things happen (why bad things happen to good people) but when trying to prove my point to my peers, I felt like I failed. You guys have provided some great scriptures for those situations. I am currently in the 23 Chapter of Matthew. Its taking me some time because i'm taking notes for every verse and I have attention deficit and horrible chronic fatigue. I did start in the Old Testemant and I was in Numbers but I switched to the NT.




    great words of wisdom! yes I am getting more involved in Christ. Never in my life have I been reading my Bible everyday and I feel so much better about this world and my situation. I love what you said about the reason the road to heaven is narrow.

    I'm with you and your thoughts about these materialistic preachers, but I saw one on I believe 60 Minutes and he said (i'm paraphrasing) "God doesn't want us to be poor, he wants us to have the finest things, Jesus rode on a camel, that was like a bentley in those times." I'm really trying hard to follow the word and not judge, that can be pretty hard at times. But, my friend who is getting into preaching he really admires all those megachurch preachers. He's become very close with some young local ministers, he just seems like his intentions are wrong, but i've been kind of silent not wanting to make him mad or anything...since i don't know who true intentions, I guess that's between him and God.

    King J,

    thanks a lot!

    I had to read your post a few times because of my intention deficit, i can read 2 times and still not remember what i read. Before I lost my job I was taking medicine for it, i lost my insurance and could no longer afford those expensive medications. Thanks to Jesus I have made it through and I'm much better today than I was a while back.

    What do you mean by God kicked the angels out because of intent?

    I know I need to focus on being more righteous and understand life is better after here.

    What do you mean by no death is random?

    I love what you said about rejoicing through hard times. I've been going through some hard times since losing my job. I try and try to be positive, when my friends and family call i try to not sound so sad, its hard, but i've been getting better. Besides I have so much to be thankful for!

    Far as what you said about the mega church preachers, I shouldn't judge, because as you said many probably did start off with good intentions. They've had a few documents on the news about some of these guys, i guess that's why i've spoke negative against them. Lord Forgive me because I don't know where they stand with God and I shouldn't be judging.

    thanks to everyone, so happy I joined this site!
  8. Sorry King...James 4:6, Proverbs 3:34, Psalm 145:19
  9. There's judging and discernment...discernment is OK...:)
  10. You know...I'm a newbie Christian myself...Almost 30 too ;) I have to say that these types of questions have plagued me over the past few months as well. Concurrently, my faith has grown in these questions. It's almost as if God has allowed Satan to test me because, as yourself, it has caused it to truly delve into the bible and establish a relationship with God. Previously, I would have skirted the issue or said "I'll get back to you." Now, I ask the Holy Spirit to speak through me when my unbelieving friends (which I have few of now) have questioned me. It has been amazing at what I have been able to say through the grace of God in those circumstances. I tell you and advise you, to pray during those times silently as your friends are bombarding you with questions. I recommend you pray to God that you remain steadfast. I personally ask God for forgiveness for when I doubt. There's no denying that I doubt at times. I can't hide a single thing from my Father because he sees so deeply into my heart, more so than I could ever imagine; so I just lay it out there to Him.

    I believe the Lord knows we are going to have doubts about His way of doing things. There's no way we couldn't. Look at it this way though. God created His first two humans (which my theory is Adam and Eve were created with perfection...probably the most beautiful looking man and woman that every lived on this earth) and God gave them so much. He gave them ruling and authority over everything over the planet and said, just don't eat from one tree. That's it! What did they do? Well, the rest is history.

    Even with his first, most wonderful creations having completely gone against Him after everything he gave to them (a whole world!) and even after the multitude of people who ruined His beautiful earth, he gave His only son for us, so that we may receive redemption, salvation, His love, His glory.

    So at the end of the day, when I doubt certain thing...things only He knows, and that I would not readily admit to others, I still know in the depths of my heart that He is there.
    comfy, autumn oddity, KingJ and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  11. Another thing to mention...there is no other book in the history that better explains the world and that has had so many prophesies come to fruition, than the bible.

    Take a look at this site. I'm sure there are many more out there, but this is the first one I found. These are some things you can mention to your friends. Pay attention to number 1, 5, and 9.
  12. In the spiritual realm a yes = yes and a no = no. In the flesh our yes = yes'ish and no = no'ish. Angels intent is immediately known. But for us, only after a while of rebellion does our yes to reject Jesus become an 'absolute' yes. There comes a point where God concludes our hearts intent is not to serve Him ever. Ie...those that go to hell, would never be truly desirous of ever serving God. Taking them out of hell and putting them in heaven would be going 100% against their ''true'' will. God does not override anyones free will.
    Hehe, yeah it is hard as all we know is this life. But every Christian has to grasp that this life is a drop in the ocean of eternity.
    As Major said, ''Everyone has an appointement to die. It does not matter where you are or what you are. We all have that appointment.''
    Sorry to hear bud. I will be praying for you.
    You must judge all things. But lets not condemn them, rather discern and help if we get an opportunity. Don't forget Mark 9:40.
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.
  13. I agree with those scriptures but don't see how they should alter what I said? :):confused:
  14. You said God shows no partiality....I think the ones I provided displayed that at times he does? Perhaps I'm taking them out of context?? Forgive and correct me if so! :notworthy:
  15. None of those verses you quoted speak of God showing partiality. God is impartial on all but favors those who obey Him. The verses you quoted speak of those God favors.

    James 4:6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble''.

    Since I have the choice to be either proud or humble, it is I who determine God's reaction.

    Imagine you had two kids. One was naughty, one was good. You would say to the both of them....I will give you a hiding if you are naughty and a sweet if you are good. You are not showing preference / partiality to either as they both have the ability to rebel or obey you and the consequences / rewards are the same.
  16. The heathen love to throw those pointless arguments at you - as if they meant something profound.
    Why does God allow misfortune and death? Why should He not? We have free will, that covers a lot more territory than most would like to accept.
    For God to have interfered with the Boston bombers for example, He would have had to have killed them out of hand or let some of the authorities in on their plot beforehand.
    Would you have God kill every sinner before they can commit their sin? We would have a world full of dead.
    Would you have God alert "the authorities" to every planned crime? We would all be in jail.
    We have the world we have because as long as there is sin, it is the only way that it can be.

    And for those who lament "why do bad things happen to good people?", they don't, we are all bad,
    bad things happen to bad people, so bad things happen to just about everyone.
  17. King, are you rereading what you wrote? You said "God shows preference to nobody". You're retracting now and/or saying something different. I don't see you as one who would retract so I think it's safe to assume, maybe you think you wrote something different the first time? The scripture you provided seems to assert that God shows no favor, I think also that other scriptures show the same thing as well as other threads where people have sided with the "God shows absolutely no partiality".
  18. I will re-read tomorrow. What I wrote sounds perfectly fine right now :).
  19. If you read the underlined in post # 5 of mine you will see I am saying the same thing. Showing preference = partiality / favouritism / being a respecter of persons. Showing favor = giving approval / rewarding / impartiality.
  20. I'm confused
    I'll go over it again later

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