Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Ingbert, Feb 10, 2011.

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  1. One of my old MySpace friends insisted on calling gays “sodomites” because, “That’s what the Bible calls them.” No amount of evidence to the contrary would convince him. He also didn’t seem to care that it’s considered a derogatory term in LGBT circles and never quite understood why he couldn’t get gays to listen to him.
    He’s not alone. I’ve heard a lot of preachers call gays sodomites.
    “Sodomite” is not a scriptural term. At best, it’s a King James term. As far as I know, it’s only used in the King James Version.
    It’s also incorrect to use sodomite as a general term for homosexuals. It’s not even used that way in King James.
    The word translated sodomite is qadesh and refers to a male temple prostitute, which is the way it’s translated in most modern translations.
    Qadesh is just the masculine form of qadeshah, which the KJV reguarly translates as “whore”.
    Deuteronomy 23:17 is a good example. As the KJV reads:
    There shall be no whore {qadeshah} of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite {qadesh} of the sons of Israel.
  2. Yes, the reverse sexuality is sickness(morbid condition) and all those who can not stop to be reverselly-sexual are sick patients that must be cured.
    Actually, the people of ancient sodom have not been just reversely-sexual, but contrarily, they have been very big/great men, ie very great ringleader-males, because they have believed in some "idol(-s)"/"image(-s)" that make them to be aggressive and to justify their great masculinity with sexual abuse of/over all/any inspired beings - this has been some type of satanism:

    Genesis 19:4-11 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door."

    Therefore Lot's wife became salt/has been punished, because she was also addicted to that great haughty/proud/prideful spirit and pilgrimage/adoration.
  3. The term Sodomite was derived from the town of Sodom, Sodom, sodomite; Wisconsin, Wisconsinite, so it is not the original language, which can often cause problems.

    I would like to add, that Hebrew words, usually have a much broader meaning than English, so qadesh is not necessarily as limited as you suggest.

    For instance, Job 36:14 They die in youth, and their life [is] among the unclean.

    However, you have to be very careful of the King James versions. They take liberty with translation far too often IMO
  4. I didn't suggest it had a limited meaning. I'm only talking about it as it's translated sodomite in King James.

    The actual root has a meaning more along the lines of dedicated or consecrated. There's even a city called Kadesh from the same word.

    You're right, Sodomite was derived from Sodom, but not by the writers of the Bible.
  5. I was acknowledging the word is not in the original, but rather coined in the Latin as an interpretation. I misunderstood your comment not being nlimited to the explanation you provided.
  6. Honestly, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

    As for the story of Sodom, do you think the incident at Lot's house is why it was destroyed? Have you ever wondered what the angels were doing there in the first place?

    If the story of Sodom is about homosexuality, then why isn't the story of Gibeah in Judges 19 about heterosexuality?
  7. The case in Judges 19: is the same as that in Genesis 19, that spirit/spirituality has been very popular during those times, this has been some elation of some studs who tried to prove their masculinity through harsh/rough and violent methods. These men/males have been with sickly/great feeling of man/male superiority/transcendence, and all/everything that has been on the foundation/basis of some determined unclean/sinful devotion/spirituality/religion(idolatry) - this has been an kind of cult and spiritual vandalism/hooliganism, and in reality: satanism. It is visible that they has not been prefered to having sex in love with women, but that they has been prefered to exert/exercise violence.
    Actually, it is about some very typical ancient unclean cults/beliefs/believings.

    Where you can see male(-s) to rape sexually (an-)other male(-s) without any remorse/qualm?, may be only in some prison/jail, and how many believers/clerics curse the criminals?, they are most cursed.

    And when you have been sexually raped from some (ordinary/traditional) homosexual/gay?, probably no one time, else, some of them may (to) be annoying.

    This proves that: the unbelievers are not so/as (the) dangerous, because they are in their natural state of nature, but the believers/clerics can be (the) much more dangerous, because they follow/practice that, which since the time of the first man has been called sin/spirituality.
  8. Would you care to say that again in English?
  9. Sorry, I can't even read this. My eyes aren't good enough. All those slashes and parentheses and whatnot just start running together on me. I have a hard enough time reading ordinary text.
  10. Ingbert,

    I would like to have a conversation with you that I don't believe anyone has ever had before. But I am afraid it will be difficult with so many others able to jump in at any point and lead the topic off-track or distract us in other ways.

    There is a "start a conversation" option where we can invite specific people or lock everyone out......if you think you are interested. Not sure exactly how to state the subject, yet....I'll give it some thought and then you can decide.

    However, if we decide to do this, I would like to know a little more about what you believe -not to discuss here - but so I know where you stand on issues and can discuss the topic from that stance.

    So for clarity, is this correct?
    You believe:
    The Bible is silent on Homosexuality
    Homosexuality is innate


    Do you also believe:
    Homosexuality is immutable?
    The Apostles or at least some of them were homosexuals?


    Also, I would like to understand your beliefs about God's laws.
    Do you believe God set regulations for us to follow? Do you believe what the Bible says in this matter? What do you think God's purpose for giving laws was? And how do the laws effect us physically, emotionally, etc.

    If we choose to have a conversation, I want to come at it from your perspective, rather than the usually back and forth disagreements.

    Let me know what you think/decide
  11. Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.....

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying the Bible is not condemning homosexuality, but paganism as it deals with sexual activity of both sexes? Or prostitution and other sexual relations when performed to incite false gods? Is that correct?

    Also, is it the word "abomination" that distinguishes pagan practices from other sins?

    And is this entire chapter, Lev 18 & 20, about worsing pagan gods, or does it go back and forth between general sins that are always wrong and sin of paganism?

  12. I am with the others in that I have NO clue what you are trying to say my friend.
  13. NOPE.............Homosexuality is not just a sin, it is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD THY GOD.
    GrannyG likes this.
  14. Major,

    The point that is trying to be made in this thread is that it is not homosexuality that is the abomination, but the worship of idols. If I am understanding correctly the idea is that homosexuality is not the sin, but rathyer sexual rituals performed to appease false gods.

    I am asking for clarification in post #11. I want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing AND what that thing is we're talking about. I am wondering specifically if the word "abomination" is the qualifying factor here. You know, is that the word that distinguishes between regular sin and the sin of paganism or worshipping idols?

    If we hold off for a bit until we see what others actually think, maybe our conversations will go along a little more smoothly and be a bit more productive. What do you think?
  15. Whenever the subject of homosexuality comes up there seems to be a general blindness to the 800 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room.
    It makes no difference if one believes that gender preference is innate or not, or whether people do or do not have a choice, the one blatantly obvious thing that seems to be avoided is that homosexuality is all about LUST not love. That in itself makes it a sin. A man may love all the men he could want, the more the better, but don't attempt to have a parody of sexual relations with them, that has nothing to do with love.
  16. You don't.
  17. That's right. It ranks right up there with eating shrimp.
  18. Wrong.
  19. Instead of just saying I have misunderstood your position, why don't you clarify things so I understand?

    How can we hope to have an intelligible conversation if we aren't talkin g about the same things?

    Help me out here a little....what is your position?
  20. Wrong ? How am I wrong? A man who loves other men is friendly, and man who commits a parady of sex with other men is lustful.
    At the very least it is misuse of tools. Sex is ALL ABOUT PROCREATION, God made it fun and gave us a sex drive so that we would procreate, otherwise no one would bother.
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