Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Noblemen, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. Sin always lays dormant in the flesh, until the Word of God exposes it, and then it (sin) revives back to life. No one can disguise sin in the presence of the Word of God.

    Rom 7:9.. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
    Major and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
  2. Yes but Romans 8:13, is mind given to body that constitutes flesh. Nature is spirit-life-nature even if it is death life ( before new birth ) it still where the life comes from.
    " He that hath the Son hath life, because life is in the Son."
  3. I'm not saying we have no sin or don't sin.
    I'm saying it doesn't come from our nature, the nature we have now is the nature of God.
    So where does it come from, I believe it comes from the mind it is the memory or the residue of the old life man. And therefore looks like a sin nature, but we absolutely do not have a sin nature, if we have a sin nature then the cross on Calvary's hill failed God.
    Therefore the apostle Paul would say, be re-newed in the mind, let this mind be in you, we have the mind of Christ.

    On and on and go the Scriptures to the renewing of the mind, what are we being re-newed to?
    It is my understanding that our minds are being renewed to see the Christ that is in every born-again believer as their only life.
  4. I can not agree with you on this my brother.

    Consider all those humans who live through the 1000 year rule of Christ. They live in perfection, with Satan locked up. But as soon as he is released and temps them, what do they do????? They disobey God and revolt. What is the bottom line. They still had the old nature of sin in their heart and as soon as temptation was made they gave in to that sin nature.

    WHY????? Because it never was irradiated even with the 2nd Coming of Christ.

    I agree in that it comes from the memory of the mind. But that only confirms that it was never removed!!!!! It is still there until our death. Then with the mind of Christ in a glorified body that old nature of sin is no longer present.
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  5. I am confused brother. Here you agree with me but in your quotes on this subject you are saying that the sin nature can be removed.

    In comment #19 your comment was............
    "Im saying if the cross did not destroy the works of the Devil ( sin nature ) then what went on at the cross and what pray-tell will kill out the sin nature. I believe it was crucified in Christ and the moment you believe your nature is exchanged."

    That is entirely different than what I am saying. I am saying that the sin nature can not be irradiated at all and stays with the believer until death.

    I am saying that when we are saved, there is then TWO natures living in us which are at war with each other. One is the old nature of sin and the other is the new nature of Christ. We as sinners can not stop sinning no more than a dog can stop barking and begin to meow. WHY?????
    Because it is our nature to do. The new nature of Christ gives us the ability to make a better choice and to not be controlled by sin.

    In this sense, the Christian has two competing capacities within him—the old capacity to sin and the new capacity to resist sinning. The unbeliever has no such competition within; he does not have the capacity for godliness because he has only the sin nature. That’s not to say he cannot do “good works,” but his motivation for those works is always tainted by his sinfulness. In addition, he cannot resist sinning because he doesn’t have the capacity to not sin.

    The believer, on the other hand, has the capacity for godliness because the Spirit of God lives within him or her. He still has the capacity for sin as well, but he now has the ability to resist sin and, more importantly, the desire to resist and to live godly. When Christ was crucified, the old man was crucified with Him, resulting in the Christian's no longer being a slave to sin which is what Paul says in Rom. 6:6. We “have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness” and that is seen in Rom 6:18.

    I hope that is clear because I do not want to be confusing on this subject.
    Noblemen likes this.
  6. #26 CCW95A, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    Remember we have "two" minds. The carnal mind which is a part of the old man that requires renewing to the Word of God, and then we have the mind of Christ which does not dwell within the carnal mind but in the "heart." The carnal mind is at enmity (the enemy of God) with God because it is not subject to the laws of God. (it does not know how to live by faith) which is why we are to renew it with the Word. James talks about being "double" minded which is when our heart believes one thing and our mind believes another, "do not let that man think he shall receive anything from the Lord..."
    Being single minded is when both the renewed carnal mind , and the mind of Christ in us are in agreement. Setting our mind on things above (both renewed mind, and the heart) causes the believer to walk in the Spirit, and not in the flesh (old nature). If we do not renew our carnal mind, and if we do not set our mind, and heart on the things above we revert right back to our old ways.
    Noblemen likes this.
  7. The "old man" was crucified.

    Rom 6:6.. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    The old sinful nature was crucified on the cross, and that nature is gone forever, as we have a new "heart" with a new nature. But :) There is a "residual" part of that old nature still left, and that residual is found in the "flesh", and it will always be with us as long as we are living in these physical bodies. The body having become contaminated by our old nature, which was crucified is so far gone it can not be fixed, it must be changed at the return of Jesus for his Church.
    Over coming the flesh, and it's desires is only done by walking in the Spirit.

    Gal 5:16.. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
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  8. #28 Complete, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    Hello @Major,

    'Mortifying the deads of the body,' in itself can only be achieved by 'reckoning' on the efficacy of the finished work of Christ though, wouldn't you agree?

    I also believe that there are two natures in the believer.

    In Christ Jesus
    Noblemen likes this.
  9. Hi Major,

    Although this is a side issue it is still important to the discussion, which I am reading & appreciating all everyone is saying. So my point is that those who go through the millennium are not `spirit filled believers of the Body of Christ,`( a specific company of people, called out) those millennium people are carnal people who live under a government through Israel restored to God`s order. It is not a perfect time. Obviously this leads us way off topic but just wanted to highlight that those millennial people are NOT led by the Spirit as we are but are under the law, the rod of iron.

    Noblemen and Complete say Amen and like this.
  10. #30 Complete, Apr 9, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
    Hello @CCW95A,

    I have read, and proved to be true, that, from Romans 5:12-8:39, it is 'sin' that is dealt with: - the old nature. For, though the sinner is justified in Christ, he still feels the working of the old nature, and experiences the conflict between that and the new nature.

    The object of this section is to teach us that though we still see the fruits, we are to regard the old tree as though it had died, and to reckon that we died in Christ's death. No change has taken place. The root remains.

    The change is in our standing before God. We now stand on a different plane: "we walk by faith'; and by faith we reckon that, though the flesh is in us, we are "not in the flesh"; and, in spite of the fruits which we see from time to time, we believe God when He tells us that the tree, in His sight, is condemned.

    A new graft has been put in, which can only pyoduce "fruit unto God"; while all that is produced from the old stock (below the graft) is worthless, and is cut away as such by the great Gardener's hand.

    We are His "husbandry". He grafts in us a new nature; and we believe Him when He tells us of all the wonders of the work which He has wrought.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    I Christ Jesus
    Noblemen likes this.
  11. I agree, @Marilyn C.
  12. The
  13. Good scriptures, thanks brother for chiming in the conversation
  14. To disagree lol got ya!!!!

    Having a little fun in the thread with friends.
    Only one of us can be right you know that, well I won't say it LOL.
    I do respect our conversation and it's been fun I'm working on another one just for major LOL hope everybody will comment and pick each other's brain.

    Thanks Chris for your words as always, Marlynn (my moms name) thank you great Scriptures, CCW nice to have have you straighten us out LOL great Scriptures.
  15. I hear you and that is a good point. However, Those future believers will basically be the same as the believers of today. They will be Christians: people who have put their faith in Jesus Christ who have repented of their sins, received Christ to come into their lives, and have been "born again," just like the Christians of the Church Age. (Luke 24:46-47; John 1:12; Revelation 3:20; John 3:3-16).

    BUT they will as you have pointed out have to obey the Law. The age of grace ends with the Rapture. The saints and martyrs of the Tribulation period are never called the church (Revelation chapters 4-19). As noted there will indeed exist a "renewed" church on the earth after the rapture, IMO, but she will be a counterfeit, apostate organization and will give her power to Antichrist. She is thus depicted as a prostitute riding the beast in Revelation chapter 17
  16. Yes Chris that is my understanding. I wish it was not the case but when I look at my life and my actions and things I have said and done AFTER I was saved, I have to confess that the sin nature is alive and well inside of me. I thank God however that He also lives in me and gives me the opportunity to live for Him and not be lead by that old sin nature.
    Complete likes this.
  17. God bless you CCW95A!!!! You are one special dude! I must say however that I have never met anyone before that has had there sinful nature eradicated! It must be great for you...
    I didn't received that gift at salvation. I certainly received the gift of righteousness and God's precious Holy Spirit, but alas, I, like the apostle Paul, still find that in me (that is, in my fleshly nature), dwells no good thing.

    One question for you though... Does your wife (if you have one) think that your sinful nature is eradicated? You seem she lives with you and would be the one to see you interact with others every single day, day in and day out.

    I know exactly what my wife would say if you asked her about me and my actions.
  18. Of course all of that is your opinion on "residual old nature". Every one has one and you are certainly entitled to yours.

    But Romans 8:4 gives the practical result of this. The cross being the condemnation of the old nature in the root of its being, we have received the Holy Spirit to be the power of the new nature, so that walking in the Spirit we fulfil all the righteous requirements of the law, though no longer under it as our rule of life.

    God then has condemned, in the cross of Christ, the flesh - the old nature. But what can we do with it? We can thankfully accept what God has done, and treat it henceforward as a condemned thing ourselves. The apostle Paul indicates this when he says, "We are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have NO CONFIDENCE in the flesh" (Phil. 3:3).

    The shattering of our confidence in the flesh is the shattering of the flesh's power over us. Then at once we look away from ourselves, and our most earnest efforts, for a Deliverer, and find Him in the Lord Jesus Christ, who has taken possession of us by His Spirit. The Spirit is the power; He not only checkmates the activity of the old nature as seen in see Gal. 5:16, but energizes, expands and controls the new man as seen in seen in Rom. 8:2, 4, 5, and 10.

    Bear in mind that the new nature has no power in itself. Rom. 7 shows that. The new nature in itself gives aspirations and desires which are right and beautiful, but for power to fulfil them there must be this practical submission to Christ and His Spirit - this walking in the Spirit, which is largely the result of coming into real and heartfelt agreement with God's condemnation of the old nature in the cross of Christ.

    That settles it. After all, good-natured and religious flesh is only FLESH, and will not do for God.
  19. To disagree lol got ya!!!!
    Having a little fun in the thread with friends.
    Only one of us can be right you know that, well I won't say it LOL.
    I do respect our conversation and it's been fun I'm working on another one just for major LOL hope everybody will comment and pick each other's brain.

    Thanks Chris for your words as always, Marlynn (my moms name) thank you great Scriptures, CCW niceto have have you straighten this out LOL great have have you straighten this out LOL great Scriptures
    That is alot of things going on inside the believer to hold to "the two dogs fighting" theory.
    It flys in the mainline Doctrine, but has no wieght in Scripture.
    Because a Christian sins they think they have a sin nature, of coarse there is no lack of preaching to keep them condemned to that understanding.

    I just wonder what Jesus crucified then, put to death, Paul said it was him that was crucified in Christ, oldman out new man in, must read the scripture as there written.
  20. #40 Complete, Apr 9, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
    Hello again, @Major,

    This last paragraph is where I differ from you, for I believe that our responsibility regarding the Old Nature, is to reckon it dead: to ignore it's calls and claims and rise up and walk in newness of life, before the Father, as those who are indeed, by God's reckoning - risen with Him.

    It is a reckoning of faith: for our senses will be telling us otherwise; however, we believe God and not our senses. We are indeed crucified with Christ. (Gal.2:20)

    'I am crucified with Christ:
    nevertheless I live;
    yet not I,
    but Christ liveth in me:
    and the life which I now live
    in the flesh
    I live by the faith of the Son of God,
    Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

    Praise God!

    This is faith obedience, I believe.
    In Christ Jesus
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