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Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Noblemen, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. Galatians 5:19–21, This is how the sin nature lets the world know that it (nature-spirit) exists.
    What this means is "nature spirit" cannot be seen, heard, touched, tasted, or smelled but we know that it exists through its manifestations, first Corinthians 2:9–12.

    It is a natural thing for degenerate man to manifest the works of the flesh as described in the above verses, Romans 1:28.
    The works of the flesh are the result of a reprobate mind that is totally compatible with the sin nature in degenerate mankind. However, mankind has learned to control or disguise the fruit of the sin nature so individuals will be acceptable to each other.
    KingJ likes this.
  2. 'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
    Adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
    lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft,
    hatred, variance, emulations,
    wrath, strife, seditions,
    heresies, envyings, murders,
    drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
    of the which I tell you before,
    as I have also told you in time past,
    that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.'

    (Gal 5:19-21)

    Quite a list isn't it?

    'But as it is written,
    Eye hath not seen,
    nor ear heard,
    neither have entered into the heart of man,
    the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:
    for the Spirit searcheth all things,
    yea, the deep things of God.
    For what man knoweth the things of a man,
    save the spirit of man which is in him?
    even so the things of God knoweth no man,
    but the Spirit of God.
    Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
    but the spirit which is of God;
    that we might know the things
    that are freely given to us of God.'

    (1Co 2:9-12)

    Praise God!

    'And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
    God gave them over to a reprobate mind,
    to do those things which are not convenient; ... '

    (Rom 1:28)

    Praise God!
    For the reconciliation that He has procured for us, in and though the death and resurrection of His precious Son on our behalf.

    In Christ Jesus
    Noblemen likes this.
  3. 'And you hath He quickened,
    who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    Wherein in time past ye walked
    according to the course of this world,
    according to the prince of the power of the air,
    the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
    in the lusts of our flesh,
    fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
    and were by nature the children of wrath,
    even as others.

    But God, who is rich in mercy,
    for his great love wherewith He loved us,
    Even when we were dead in sins,
    hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    And hath raised us up together,
    and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    That in the ages to come
    He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace
    in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.'

    (Eph 2:1)

    Praise His Name!
    Noblemen likes this.
  4. Agreed. The sin nature is not irradiated by salvation. Only death will put an end to its work.
    Noblemen likes this.
  5. There are manifestations of the old nature which are obvious, and spring readily to mind, yet in Ephesians we read of the desires of the mind. These are not so easy to identify, for they are not coarse, but refined: yet they are still of the flesh and can lure the mind from Christ.

    In Christ Jesus
  6. Agreed.
    Noblemen likes this.
  7. Thanks Chris for typing in the Scriptures, I didn't have time also the works and manifestation of the flesh are cumbersome when concentrating on writing.
    Complete likes this.
  8. Hello old pal, I disagree the cross took care of the sin nature, the OP describes the mind as looking like the old nature but the old nature is crucified in Christ. It's the mind that must be renewed to the new nature we have in Christ.
  9. Our sin nature is not nor can be irradiated by salvation.
    The only remedy for our old man or sin nature is to be put to death.

    if we die outside of Christ we who once separated from God in time will forever be separated from God for ever .

    in Christ
  10. Hello @geralduk,

    Yes! and praise God, the old man (or sin nature) has been put to death, in Christ: hasn't it? For in God's estimation, when He died, we died, in Him; and when He rose, we too rose up with Him to newness of life.

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Noblemen likes this.
  11. Hello Nobelmen,

    The old nature is crucified with Christ, in God's estimation: yet it is still made up of so many pounds in weight, being the body and mind which we now inhabit, and will be with us until it goes back to the dust from whence it came. That is why we are told that the mind needs to be renewed now, by the ministration of the Spirit, through His Word.

    In Christ Jesus
    Noblemen likes this.
  12. And that is exactly what I said. It is a blessing to have you agree!!!
  13. It is OK to disagree my brother and you did it in such a Christian and civil way. The truth is a lot of people disagree with me and I love them for it. It says to me that they are INVOLVED in getting out the Word of God and that is what we all should be doing.

    To me, it is our sins that are paid for on the cross and are crucified with Christ, NOT our nature to commit sins. We sin because we are sinners and the act of salvation does not stop us from doing what we do best. Salvation is the act of forgiveness but not the process of irradiation or removal of the instrument which causes us to sin and that my brother is that Old Sin Nature.

    The "flesh" or as some call it, the old nature, belongs to us as coming into the world of Adam's race by natural generation; or as some call that "Federal Headship" and "spirit" is the new nature , and it is ours, if born again of the Holy Spirit by coming to Christ.

    When we were born again, then there was implanted in us by the Holy Spirit this new nature, which is spirit, and one of the first results of this was the inevitable clashing of this new nature with the old, which you inherited as a child of Adam. Both strive for the mastery, each pulling in a diametrically opposite direction, and until the secret of deliverance from the power of the flesh within is learned, the painful jumble of right and wrong is bound to continue.

    In other words we do not have to be controlled by the Old Nature but we will always be subject to it. IMO!

    After Paul was saved he admitted in Romans 7:15-18........
    "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am fleshly, sold under sin. For that which I do, I do not own: for not what I will, this I do; but what I hate, this I practise. But if what I do not will, this I practise, I consent to the law that it is right. Now then it is no longer I that do it, but the sin that dwells in me.
    For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, good does not dwell: for to will is there with me, but to do right I find not. For I do not practise the good that I will; but the evil I do not will, that I do."

    Then in vs 22 & 23 he comes to the center of the problem..........
    "For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring in opposition to the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which exists in my members."
    Complete and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
  14. Amen Chris!
    Complete likes this.
  15. Paul is speaking retrospectively, in Romans seven, he could do that being born again now, he could look back at his previous life.
    Paul was never alive without the law as he says in Romans seven, he was speaking from the standpoint of Adam. This is a great snare for Christians because they sin therefore they think they still have a sin nature, the new nature, a God nature, well no wonder there is so much confusion.
  16. ? Why does everybody want to keep the sin nature, Just asking.
  17. Amen brother to the comment of "no wonder there is so much confusion. Take a look at the following comments................

    Stephen Chester (North Park Theological Seminary) writes “The Retrospective View of Romans 7:
    "Paul’s Past in Present Perspective,” suggesting the apostle’s description of his struggle speaks more to his pre-Christian self."

    Grant Osborne (Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) offers
    “The Flesh Without the Spirit: Romans 7 and Christian Experience,” perceiving Romans 7 as an accurate representation of what believers go through even after their conversion."

    Mark Seifrid (The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary), in “The Voice of the Law, the Cry of Lament, and the Shout of Thanksgiving,” asserts that Paul is not speaking of his past or his present Christian experience in Romans 7, but more fundamentally and simply about “the human being confronted with the Law.”

    As for me, I am of the belief that these verses sum up the Christian’s utter inability to live righteously, in his own strength. Rather than citing the Old Testament Scriptures here, Paul refers to his own experience as we read of his final cry of despair in Rom. 7:24. The darkest hour of Romans 5-7 comes just before the dawn of Romans 8.
    Noblemen likes this.
  18. It is not that I want to keep it, it is simply that it is there!

    Do you know of anyone who has ever had to teach a child to lie or be selfish; NO...... we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The evening news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly. Wherever people are, there is trouble.

    Charles Spurgeon said...........
    “As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”
  19. Right but Im talking about the born again, those in Christ, even a child can be in Christ who knows the age.
    Im saying if the cross did not destroy the works of the Devil ( sin nature ) then what went on at the cross and what pray-tell will kill out the sin nature. I believe it was crucified in Christ and the moment you believe your nature is exchanged.
    Old man out new man in, I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ liveth in me, Galatians 2:20.
    It seems to be a pattern dear brother and I'm not speaking about you I am speaking about religion in general but they have a problem with anyone pinpointing anything.
    It's like we can't know nothing, it's like the Bible is definitive on no points.
    That is absolutely a farce and the Pauline epistles are clear as they are written in plain English to the born-again believer.
    But to pinpoint anything is rejected therefore we stay ignorant the Scripture says let the ignorant be ignorant still.
    I say read it like it's written allow the Holy Spirit to give sound instruction pinpoint the Scriptures as their written and MoveOn in God to "yeah the deep things of God" regardless of what man says, religion rejects or any other creature on this earth has to say.
  20. I hear you and I am saying that NOTHING kills the old nature. Death will put and end to it eventually but nothing else will kill it.

    Rom. 8:13........
    " For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

    It is important to note that the believer is not completely free from sin. Putting to death the deeds of the body is a continual process that the believer must engage in on a daily basis. The point is that one of the marks of a true believer is that he is daily putting to death the deeds of the body. This person, the one who puts to death, or mortifies, the deeds of the body and its sinful nature will live. Again, this is a reference to eternal life, or heaven.
    Big Moose and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
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