Should Christmas It Be Celebrated Or Rejected? You Decide!
- Thread starter Bro.tan
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MichaelH
Inactive
It maybe in the bible, but it's not. Nothing about Christmas. In fact Jer would be as close as you get, but God said dressing up trees are vain. (Big waste of time)
It's disappointing to read all the responses, get these long history lessons on Christmas and only one believer said the right thing. The rest of us ignored him and ignored him of course because we can't possible stop and give another believe the possibility that they might just be right and we might need to change some thinking. NOPE, most of us don't think like that.
Conscience is mentioned in the KJV NT 30 times.
Only one person mentioned it though. Embarrassing, I know.
Roads shared with us:
Bro.tan gave some interesting background information, but I had a problem with caring. In fact this whole post made me actually think about what Christmas means to me and to be honest I can't give any reason to say it has any significance.
In other words, celebrating it does not bother my conscience and forgetting to celebrate it does not matter either.
Christmas long ago may have meant something to a lot of folk, but now it's a marketing tool. Retail stores and manufactures make sure to remind us that Christmas is coming because starting Black Friday they depend on that volume of sales and Christmas is a good way to get consumers to buy.
This in itself is a good thing as it helps predict stock markets and gives company's a good view of their standings. A bad thing because consumer spending drops a few months after Christmas.
If I don't celebrate Christmas because I believe God does not like it considering it's roots, then I put myself under a law. I have no faith. If I celebrate Christmas because I think it means something then I do so in vain with no spiritual benefit.
If I celebrate Christmas because the kids like it and folks like getting stuff wrapped in paper that makes them happy and money gets moved around the economy then I do well for a day, I did my part.
Conscience is the key word here. No devil is bigger than us, no idol has power, no tradition should hold us, but all free in Christ Jesus.
What if, for instance, Easter does have pagan origins (which it does)? Should the celebration of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection be discarded?
In other words, does an important celebration key to our faith become tainted due to its non-Christian history?
Some Christians (not sure which denominations) do reject the celebration of Easter specifically for that reason.
MichaelH
Inactive
There is some food for thought.
It keeps coming back to personal conscience for me. I never considered Christmas or Easter a key to anything Christian related. I don't see Paul or the others celebrating those days.
Every single day we should be living examples of death, burial and resurrection. For me, picking a day where I do a better job at it don't make lots of sense.
Conscience.................... For me, it don't matter if man had made stuff up occult like for Easter. Listen to what I have to say, we as believers have power and we can make it whatever we want.
Just because a witch voodoo hexes an owl statue, does not mean I might not like that owl statue in my living room. The witch says its cursed, I say it's not. I am right and have the Holy Spirit to back me.
Same with holidays, can't we keep Easter and Christmas for the Lord if we declare what that really means?
The only thing I can relate to is Halloween. This may be religion, personal conviction, but inside me I don't feel right about it. My kids will have nothing to do with fear, and I certainly won't support it. If another believer does, then fine, but for me it just don't set right.
So for that reason, with the fear and stuff included with Halloween (Not the background of it, but what it actually celebrates) My conscience would bother me if I started hanging Ghost and spooky lights in my window to celebrate it.
Michael.
I meant no disrespect when I said I avoid churches like mentioned...it’s just we see things differently….
Not to deal with Christmas? None.
To deal with the First Christmas: there is, in fact the angel said “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people”
Luke 2:1-20
The Birth of Jesus
8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”
15 When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”
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For the most part, it seems I agree with you. You're right that it's not key to our faith--it's my fault for wording that poorly. I made it sound like it is important to Christian doctrine.
What I should have said was they are recounts and celebrations of important moments in Christianity. A Christian CAN choose to not celebrate in Christ's birth and sacrifice, but I think they would be missing out on two important celebrations. It's not like Christ doesn't deserve celebration.
Most people would dare not dismiss their wife's, mother's, father's, brother's, friend's, (etc) birthdays. I definitely wouldn't encourage dismissing Jesus's.
MichaelH
Inactive
That is not really what I intended to say. Remember Conscience............. It's a very important word because that is where the Holy Spirit deals with us. So you might say that it's not a "KEY" to our faith, and I might not say its a "KEY" to our faith, and even Jesus might not say it's a "KEY" to our faith. It just might be a "Key" to someones faith by conscience. If that is the case, then their Conscience tells them that it's important to observe these days and not miss out on celebrating Jesus. That can't be a bad thing for the Lord said whoever is not against us is for us. That leaves a whole range of folks for the Lord though not for him directly. Jesus is "OK" with them folks. (Luke 9:50)
So if someone says we celebrate Christmas because we are thankful for the baby Lord Jesus coming to save the World, then fine by me and fine by Jesus because he said so.
If someone says we celebrate X-mass because there is always a fun party to go to, then fine by me, and fine by Jesus because he said so.
If it's not against the Lord, then it does not hinder his part.
Mar_9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
Someone might say, "They have taken the concept of Christmas and have trashed the meaning and have removed Jesus to do their own lust and fill their own greed. After all we know it's really a Pagan Holiday."
Are they against us? NO
Are they for Jesus? NO
By default not against us is for us on the Lords Part.
This is where we need to mature.
What sin then have they committed? All of them. (Who breaks one part is guilty of all)
What Judgement do they get? They have already been judged. So why do we care what they do with Christmas? Our job is to get the message out so they don't have to be judged. Our job is not to point out all the things we think they do is wrong, but to point out they don't have to be condemned.
Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
(Joh 16:9-11)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(Mar 16:16)
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:18)
So what happens if Easter and Christmas is rooted in Pagan practices? Then what?
Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
(1Co 10:29-31)
once we have scripture on the subject, that should settle it. Christmas, Easter, whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God with good conscience.
Let no one hurt your good conscience toward God by the grace you were saved with history, ideas, laws, or religious thinking.
Michael.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Holly has been used in Christmas tradition for almost two thousand years. It's older, pagan origins began at least as early as ancient Rome, when holly was associated with Saturn, the sun god. In Druidic and other related pagan traditions, holly leaves were placed around homes in the winter in the belief that the fairies would use it as a shelter against the cold. Early Christians in the British Isles adopted this tradition at first to avoid persecution, but holly was eventually reinterpreted with Christian symbolism. The pointy edges represent the crown of thorns which Christ wore during his crucifixion. The red berries represent Christ's blood which he shed during His torture and death.
Why can't we find the word Christmas in the Bible? Why don't we see in the Bible where Jesus, the apostles, or anyone else for that matter, celebrating his birthday? The Bible tells us to remember his death (which is the Passover); it says nothing about celebrating his birth. It doesn't even tell you when he was born.
"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? For to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee. But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightning’s with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish". (Jeremiah 10:1-15)
Now the Bible tells us in (Isaiah 1:18) "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:" After reading this, and hopefully doing some research on your own, ask yourself:
Should Christmas be Celebrated or Rejected? You Decide!
Why can't we find the word Christmas in the Bible? Why don't we see in the Bible where Jesus, the apostles, or anyone else for that matter, celebrating his birthday? The Bible tells us to remember his death (which is the Passover); it says nothing about celebrating his birth. It doesn't even tell you when he was born.
"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? For to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee. But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightning’s with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish". (Jeremiah 10:1-15)
Now the Bible tells us in (Isaiah 1:18) "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:" After reading this, and hopefully doing some research on your own, ask yourself:
Should Christmas be Celebrated or Rejected? You Decide!
I sort of feel like this is happening in this conversation:
I'm not really sure how simply listing more links to historical pagan traditions responds to any of the discussion that's been happening here.
As for the Jeremiah passage, it's not the act of decorating a cut tree that's "in vain." What's "in vain" is believing that the cut tree has any kind of power and is anything more than simply a created thing. This passage is God telling his people to not follow the pagan practice of worshiping the creation instead of the creator, it is not saying that cutting down a tree and decorating it is an act that's forever intrinsically linked to idolatry. Is it wrong for churches to take a cut tree that's been decorated into the likeness of a cross, and hang it in their building? It is, if they worship the cross itself, instead of simply understanding what it represents.
The cross is a symbol that once meant condemnation, from which there is no hope. To us, it now symbolizes the opposite. Whatever various traditions we practice at Christmas once meant, they certainly don't mean those things anymore. Even secular society doesn't practice these traditions with "consciousness of the idol," and as Christians "we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one" 1 Cor 8:4. The Bible doesn't specifically instruct us to mark an occasion to celebrate Christ's birth, but if anyone chooses to, can we really say that this person sins in doing so?
I agree. I think we're ignoring a certain principle.
That's because there is no actual discussion going on. We're told information and we are told to decide, but are not permitted to decide as the same basic information is copied over again. In short, it's not a productive conversation as it is clear which decision we're being lead to.
Bro. Tan, question: how do you celebrate your birthday?
i know it is too personal a question, but it is related to the OP/topic you open....