Should Christmas be Celebrated Or Rejected, You Decided

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Bro.tan, Dec 17, 2014.

  1. “Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. These are sayings associated with Christmas, the day that Jesus the Christ was born; or was it? Certainly this could be a description of Christmas. Celebrations such as these were taking place among non-Christians centuries before Jesus Christ was born! Such customs do not come from the Bible. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not originate them, nor were they observed by the prophets (Old Testament) or the apostles (New Testament). We're going to examine Christmas, its origin and customs, and see if in fact Christmas is of God or Pagan. Should it be Celebrated or Rejected?

    Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.



    Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night. Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.
     
  2. Some may say, "It does not matter when He was born. I am just celebrating His birth."; whereas others may say "Jesus is the reason for the season." Is that really the case? If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth? We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."

    He commanded you to observe the Passover, not Easter, which is also a pagan holiday associated with wild sexual orgies. Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. In Matthew 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,

    2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

    3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

    4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

    5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

    6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

    7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.



    World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. The end of December was an especially significant time in the northern hemisphere. Days were short; nights long. The sun was at its lowest point. This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).
     
  3. Romans 14:5 (NASB)
    One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind
     
    Where is the Messiah, Ravindran and Silk says Amen and like this.
  4. I was wondering when the yearly Christmas thread would come up. We should ARchive all these and make it a sticky. Same old junk.
     
    Silk likes this.
  5. I guess that is how Bro. Tan celebrates Christmas… every year : )
     
  6. There are new people here and maybe they would like to discuss this.
     
  7. #8 By Faith, Dec 21, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2014
    Yes, I have heard this for the last several years on other forums... "THERE ARE NEW PEOPLE HERE."

    It's just strange that it never occurse to anyone this is a dead horse topic, or that it's not being made right at the churches folks attened.

    I was hope I guess for something original, Like Christmas was invented by Aliens, or something.

    Every generation has to be told the stove is hot.

    Edit:

    Thinking though, I have my tree up and lights blinking. The free gift! We should keep this in mind every day, but it's a great time to talk about the gift to others.
     
    Silk likes this.
  8. To you it may very well be a "dead horse topic", but maybe some are just starting their walk and need to hear some folks perspective on it.

    Have you ever heard the old saying, there is nothing new under the sun?

    Just because the last generation knew something does not mean this generation knows it already.

    Now I have to quit talking to you as I find myself leaning towards temper, but I will say this. DO NOT BE A STUMBLING BLOCK, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE BORED WITH A SUBJECT.

    Have a nice day.
     
  9. I am quite new here! :) But I´ve heard lot of these discussions. I don´t care about theological reasons for not celebrating Christmas but I´ve come to a conclusion that Christmas time is depressive for me. I am for cancelling this feast. This year I am doing better but still I feel some depression coming and I hope that it will go away quickly. Time with my family and friends is always great and I don´t need any special occasion for that.
     
  10. Why is it depressive for you?
     
  11. I am missing something. Every monring I wake up and say good Morning Jesus, what are we doing today. How would it be possible to be depressed? I like Christmas because of the lights. I like to watch the stock market and sales reports as Christmas drives those numbers and sets the standards for next year.

    Busines gear for just one day out of the year, and all predictions for next year are made. Now how awesome is that?
     
  12. So what earth shattering message are we learning here today Preacher wife?

    A) Reliegious, superstitusious Nut cases that think Christmas is evil.
    B) Reliegious nut cases think it's good, but we Got the exactl day all wrong
    C) Poverty minded who hate the fact billions are flowing through the ecomy because of Christmas
    D) Mad folk who love Christmas, don't dare say X-mas.
    E) Folks like me that would not notice if it was Canceled, or care


    Wait till Easter.............. Evil bunnies made of choclate. (Make you fat)

    I hope you well in working on that temper though. Nothing on here should ever upset anyone. I fully expect a diverse spectrum of Ideas and why I joined up. The same drum, get's to sounding the same.

    Merry Christmas.

    (sorry no spell checker)
     
  13. I am going to work on my temper by doing the very thing Christ advised me. I will leave this place and wipe the dust from my feet.

    Now I will ignore you as you are NOT the kind I wish to associate with.
     
  14. I would be happy if it was as easy as you write.
    I think that there is expectation that everybody should be happy during Christmas (or at least we say it when we say "merry Christmas"). But I see many people who are not happy. This time of "happiness" is much harder for unhappy or lonely people. I don´t see any reason why to remind to unhappy people that they are not happy. For me Christmas is just about meeting my family but I can do it without Christmas as well.
    Edit: I am probably too skeptical.
     
  15. The walk from Faith to FAith is not looking for the "Feeling" of happy. It's looking for consistancy. We grow to not change, when everything around us is changing.

    I have learned to apprieciate those I am around, because it's not always going to be so. An attitude and revelation of being constantly thankful helps from getting depressed during the seasons.

    When the wife left, I remember that first Christmas without her and the kids. No card, nothing. Cried to God like a school girl. A noob in the Lord, no faith, but I was learning.

    Now my day is filled with "What is next Lord." In th end, what we do today matters to someone. Expect nothing, apprieciate everything. You are important to people you don't even know yet.

    Merry Christmas.
     
    Silk and SprSkl say Amen and like this.
  16. ya ya ya ya..

    But anways.. Merry Christmas Bro.Tan! :D
     
    Silk likes this.
  17. A day has been chosen to celebrate the greatest gift ever given to mankind. I don't know why this would be depressing - for me I would be more than depressed if this gift hadn't been given. I give thanks for this every day. Celebrate this day as the spirit moves you. I wish people would stop criticizing how others celebrate it and just do your own thing. I know I'll regret saying this but the only people who seem to criticize Christmas seem to want to show how much holier they are. None of the reasons given, to date, in this thread and the numerous others that have shown up, year in year out, justify not celebrating God's gift to all of us.
     
  18. The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away".


    The simple fact is that, as more and more people from throughout the Western Roman Empire became converted to an increasingly popular Christianity, they brought many of their favorite customs with them. "The pagan [winter festivals of the] Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence... The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner... Christians of Mesopotamia accused their western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became at last so firmly entrenched that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it..." (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume III, article "Christmas.") You see this going on in churches today. Churches are constantly recruiting new members from other denominations and they often bring some aspect of their previous church to the new one. If you notice, many Christians today celebrate the Roman Catholic tradition of Lent. Historically, Lent, was not celebrated by Protestant churches.


    Even Kwanza, founded 1966 by Dr. Maulana Karenga, which people are starting to celebrate and mingle into the church is based on the Nguzo Saba (seven guiding principles), one for each day of the observance, and is celebrated from December 26th to January 1st. A Kinara (candle holder); Mkeka (placemat preferably made of straw); Mazao (crops, i.e., fruits and vegetables); Vibunzi (ears of corn to reflect the number of children in the household); Kikombe cha umoja (communal unity cup); Mishumaa saba (seven candles, one black, three red, and three green); and Zawadi (gifts that are enriching). Its focus is said to be on these traditional African values. It's been said that Kwanza is a time of reaffirming African-American people, their ancestors and culture. Kwanzaa, means "first fruits of the harvest" in the African language Kiswahili. But the Lord has a harvest festival called the Feast of the Tabernacles. Why don't African-Americans, as well as all Christians, celebrate it?


    Leviticus 23:34-41 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.

    35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

    36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.

    37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: 38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

    39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.


    40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days. 41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the LORD seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.
     
  19. So exactly where did Christmas come from? World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away". Check your history, you'll find that the customs associated with Christmas were celebrated some 2000 years before Jesus.


    But if we got Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what was its real origin? It started and originated in the original Bablyhon of ancient Nimrod. Nimrod, grandson of Ham, son of Noah built the tower of Babel. Nimrod married his own mother, whose name is Semiramis. After Nimrod's, Semiramis claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Nimrod. This is the real origin of the Christmas tree.

    Through her scheming and designing, Semiramis became the Babylonia "Queen of Heaven," and Nimrod, under various names, became the "divine son of heaven." Through the generations, in this idolatrius worship, Nimrod also became the false Messiah, son of Baal the Sun-god. In this false Bablyhonish system, the "Mother and Child" (Semiramis and Nimrod reborn) became chief objects of worship. This worship of "Mother and Child" spread over the world. The names varied in different countries and languages. In Egypt it was Isis and Osiris. In Asia, Cybele and Deoius. In pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiterpuer. Even in Greece, China, Japan, Tibet is to be found the counterpart of the Madonna, long before the birth of Christ. The Lord God of Israel made reference to the worshiping and sacrificing to the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah.


    Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
     

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