Shamed Or Famed?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Hashe, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. The other day I drove past a man who was dragging a large cross. The cross was on wheels, but I drive up some big hills almost every day. This man was dragging his cross up and down these hills. My first thought was that this man must be crazy. What sort of God tells people to do such a crazy thing?

    Lately I’ve been thinking a bit about Mary. It seems like many Protestants are reluctant to talk or think too much about Mary. Perhaps it is a fear of somehow being caught up in some Catholic heresy and inadvertently committing idolatry. Her response to the angel Gabriel is quite something.

    Let’s consider her political and social situation. She is a young engaged woman (teenager?) in a society which is very religious. They are a conquered people, being ruled by the Romans. There is no government support for children. In fact unwanted babies are thrown away.

    An angel comes to her and tells her God is going to get her pregnant. How does she explain that to her family? Or to her fiancé? You can imagine what others are going to say about her. If her fiancé divorces her, the thing Joseph thought was the right thing to do (Mat 1:19), who will look after her?

    In fact this slur on her character follows her for the rest of her life. We see this in Jesus’ theological discussions with the Pharisees it comes up. In John 8:41 the Pharisees claim to be better than Jesus because they weren’t born from sexual immorality.

    And yet, despite the shame and difficulties being pregnant with the son of God will cause her, Mary’s response is, let it be to me according to your word. There is nothing about making sure others will understand her, or making sure her rights as a good Jewish girl are respected!

    It makes me wonder about those who claim to follow Jesus and yet are more interested in their rights! I have a right to be understood as a Christian! I expect my rights as a good Christian!

    It also makes me wonder about my reaction to the man dragging his cross. It certainly isn’t the way I would go about trying to get across the message of Jesus. Maybe he is crazy. But maybe God really told him to do that. It is no crazier than God getting a young Jewish girl pregnant. It is too easy to find myself, joining those who condemned Mary saying, ‘God doesn’t have sex with girls – you can’t be pregnant by God!’
  2. I guess I should ask, "What's your point?" But the final misrepresentation really let me know a lot about you...soon I may ask you to go back under the bridge, but we will see how this unfolds...

    Do you have a question or an issue to discuss?
  3. I wonder to what misrepresentation are you referring?

    I guess I hoped sharing some of my faith journey would spark some response from others for where they also fail.
  4. Sure! I'll answer your question, then you answer mine okay? The misrepresentation was God having sex with a woman which you say you find "too easy" to join in on believing...

    Now did you have a question or issue to discuss? Or was this last line the issue? I did not really get your point. The whole OP was kind of garbled and all over the place, in fact I do not really see a faith journey in what you wrote. But this query of mine is not meant to be an insult unless it turns out you are a troll (other wise welcome and was it to be about Mary? If so what do you think?)

    In His love

    brother Paul
    Silk and Where is the Messiah say Amen and like this.
  5. Well, I will assume these are honest statements until proven otherwise.

    I agree that Mary's response to Gabrielle is surprising given the culture and time of the event.

    Your statement seems to be about evangelical methods (the man dragging the cross) and how do we know if a form of evangelism is valid or not?

    Regarding Mary becoming pregnant with Jesus that was foretold in scripture. (See Isaiah 6). I don't believe that will ever occur again. No one today can say "God made me pregnant" in my opinion.
  6. After reading through, if that is a faith Journey, then I am Bugs Bunny. I just don't get it either. We don't have a right to expect anything out of anyone though. I expect nothing, appreciate everything.

    We do have a right to choose to be blessed or Cursed. A right to choose life or death. Choices are made with words and actions.

    Also in the context of their conversation............

    They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication (Out of a un-pure seed. Idolatry, whoredom); we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    (Joh 8:39-42)

    They would be referring to the OT, as Jesus said......

    Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

    They claimed they were of the right seed, not born of immoral and corrupt seed. They were disputing with Jesus who was telling them they have a different Father, and if they had been like their Father they would have followed the example of Abraham.

    They took their statement out of the OT, Not making a reference about Mary.

    Hos 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.

    Also Ismael was born out of wedlock, but still received the blessing of Abraham. So they would not have brought that up about Mary, since they were arguing about Abraham's seed and what Father they really followed.

    Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
  7. If I understand correctly what you are trying to say, then my response is this, "You will know them by their fruits." If it doesn't line up with scripture, then it is false. The birth of Christ was prophecy being fulfilled. Line yourself up with scripture, and you will not be part of "those who condemned Mary." The end is near, and scripture says the antichrist will fool many. Don't be one of them.

  8. The first thing I thought of reading your statement was this verse where Paul says he doesn't even judge himself:

    1 Corinthians 4:3
    But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

    This is because we don't know everything, nor can we. Job 8:9 Even Jesus didn't know when He'd return! Mat 24:36

    If God did tell him to carry that cross so you could ponder God then it worked. If this guy is just trying to be like Jesus without the Holy Spirit, that says a lot too. Only God knows and is the only just Judge. Beside, Jesus paid for all our sins, everyones. Who are we to give them a bill saying they still have to pay! If they don't accept God's free gift them that's on them thinking anything they could do would be enough to get them into heaven. Either way, our job is the ministry of reconciliation of men with God.

    2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (KJV)
    And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    I hope this helps. :)
    Silk likes this.
  9. God is not about what other people, who do not know, think. Mary and Joseph both accepted the word as given to them by God. I don't know any christians who condemn Mary and I am Protestant. We are not given to know the process by which Mary became pregnant with Jesus but there is nothing in scripture to say she had sex with anyone to get that way. As far as we know, no one condemned Mary in her time as Jesus was considered Joseph's biological son. How this has to do with a man dragging a cross?
  10. I do remember a story of a man who had a cross too heavy for him to bear. So He prayed and prayed and one day found Himself with St Peter who was giving him one chance to trade it in for a different one. Some were giant with razor sharp jagged glass. He could only imagine what this life would be. Others were continuously burning with screams coming forth...He shuddered...

    Then suddenly he looked over and saw this small simple wooden cross over in the corner leaning quietly against the wall and so he said to Peter, "That one...that's the one I want" but Peter turned to him and said "Sorry, thats the one you just traded in"...better we should learn to be content...

    brother Paul
  11. I guess I didn't make it clear that I can't actually be with people who 2000 years ago may have said to MAry, God doesn't have sex with people.
    This statement is about making judgments on what God is doing in the life's of other people, rather than literally thinking that God had sex with Mary.
    Perhaps my writing is too subtle for some? Or perhaps there is a literalism in the way people read that I didn't expect?
  12. I thought I had answered your statement correctly, didn't I?
  13. I think you did!
  14. Sorry Hashe, but I thought you were comparing a man of today "dragging" a cross (a burden) with Mary carrying the "burden" of carrying Christ. And what other people "might" have thought of her. Way too subtle for me. She had the child in Bethlehem and the she and Joseph and the baby fled to Eygypt.
  15. I forgot to add, in my last post, that the only thing I see in common between the cross and Mary is the world's "judgement" and in this I agree with Abdicate's answer.
    Abdicate likes this.

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