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Shake Off The Creature

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SueJLove, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Tuesday, October 01, 2013, 7:44 a.m. – the Lord Jesus put the song “My Jesus, I Love Thee” in my mind this morning as I was waking. Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read Ezekiel 31 at around 1:20 a.m. and I read Ezekiel 32 this time that I woke up.

    Its Heart was Proud

    When I read chapter 31 early in the morning I could not help but see the parallels between the king of Egypt and the US Government, for I had seen this many times before. There was one news story that stood out to me, and it was about the government shutdown. Key words jumped out at me from this news article in relation to this government shutdown – “prepare;” “expire;” “execute;” and “plans.” [Since news articles these days change wording from minute to minute, it is impossible to quote from a specific news article, because minutes later, utilizing the same link, the wording has disappeared and has been replaced.]

    For some time now the Lord Jesus has been giving me this picture of his judgment to come upon the USA – upon the government of our land, and upon his adulterous and idolatrous church, which is in a covenant relationship with the Satanic government via 501 (c) (3). Yet, the Lord Jesus is not judging his adulterous church here in America just because of her unholy union with the US government, but because she has run after other lovers and has allowed the things, philosophies, culture, and values of this evil world of sin to influence her away from her pure devotion to Jesus Christ and toward following after the flesh of humans.

    I believe that America is Babylon of Revelation, that she now rides the beast (the New World Order), but that soon the beast will turn on her and will destroy her as a nation and will bring her down to the dust. “What goes around comes around.” If one reads the description of the Great Prostitute in Revelation 17-19, I believe the parallels to this prophecy in Ezekiel with regard to Egypt become very obvious. The people of God of old did turn to Egypt for their protection instead of trusting in God when the king of Babylon was coming against them, and that trust in man ended up being to their shame. The institutional church here in America has turned to the US government for protection [via the 501 (c) (3)], instead of relying upon her Lord. She, in essence, made the government the head of the church instead of Jesus Christ, and that will be to her shame, as well.

    The New World Order Beast will come against us as a nation. This is what we are to prepare for. It will mean the expiration of life as we have known before, and it will mean the execution of all who will not bow to the beast. And, this is the Obamacare plan of action. Our leaders, many of whom have probably never had true loyalties to the constitution of the United States or to the people of this land, will desert us, and they will leave us as orphans. God will judge our nation for its pride, for its cruelty, for its thinking it is superior to all other people, for its lack of compassion, and for forgetting the God who created us. He will bring us down never to rise to such heights ever again.

    You Consider Yourself

    Sadly enough, this is a quite accurate description of the US government. They consider themselves, by their words and by their actions, as a young lion – great orators, bloodsuckers and parasites, great hunters of prey, strong, fierce, cruel, and tyrannical in many nations. They go into other nations under the guise of humanitarian aid or assistance, when in reality they are bloodsuckers and parasites of the worst kind who kill, loot, rape and destroy wherever they go. Their goal is to conquer the kingdoms of this world for the beast, and to bring the entire world under one rule of law. They are big bullies, murderers of the innocent, in particularly of God’s servants and witnesses, and they are liars and deceivers, convincing the people of America to follow them and to believe in them.

    A dragon is often a term used to describe Satan. Basically, the government is like a sea monster which brings terror on land and sea, and it invades other nations and states. Right now, via Obamacare, it is invading the 50 states of these United States, but what that eventually ends up looking like may not be anything like what we are seeing right now. Obama is not concerned with the health and welfare of the people of this land. His goal is to kill and to destroy for he is of the beast and he is of Satan, and thus he is our enemy, not our friend. He is here solely to make trouble for the people of this nation. Yet, in time he will meet his end, too. What the US government has planned for the people of this nation is a takeover and a handover of the government and its people to foreigners. Our republic as we now know it will cease to exist. And, I believe that time is not that far away.

    He Shook Off the Creature

    Then the Lord Jesus led me to read in Acts. He has had me going back and forth between Ezekiel and Acts for several weeks now, so Acts 28 was next.

    I believe the Lord Jesus wants his people, the church, to “shake off the creature,” i.e. to do what it says in Revelation 18:4-5:

    First of all, I believe God is calling upon the institutional church to “shake off” the US government – the sea monster - even if it means losing their tax-exempt status, and to make Jesus Christ the only head of the church once more. And, I believe he is calling upon the institutional church to “shake off” the worldliness that has overcome her – the focus on entertainment, having fun, being comfortable, making the gospel more palatable, following after the ways of humans with their marketing schemes and humanistic teachings, and being more tolerant of sin so as not to offend anyone with the truth. And, I believe he is calling out to individual Christians to “shake off” their sinful lifestyles and addictions, their “other gods/lovers”, and their worldly passions and desires which war against their souls. As well, I believe he is calling out to individual believers to “shake off” the institutional church (Babylon); to come out of her lest we partake in her sins and we share in her punishment.

    If we do not “come out of her,” and we do not “shake off” the dragon (Satan), God will bring judgment upon us so that we will shake her off. I believe in this time of judgment soon to come upon our nation that eyes will be opened and we will all be able to see our government leaders for who they really are, and we will be able to see the lies and the deceptions which we have bought into because we have gotten so engrossed in the ways of the world. I believe with all my heart that God will revive his church, that the church will endure great persecution and death for their faith and testimonies for Christ, but that the gospel will go out throughout the world, and then the end will come. Amen!

    My Jesus, I Love Thee / William R. Featherstone / Adoniram J. Gordon

    My Jesus, I love thee, I know thou art mine;
    for thee all the follies of sin I resign.
    My gracious Redeemer, my Savior art thou;
    if ever I loved thee, my Jesus, 'tis now.

    I love thee because thou hast first loved me,
    and purchased my pardon on Calvary's tree;
    I love thee for wearing the thorns on thy brow;
    if ever I loved thee, my Jesus, 'tis now.

    I’ll love Thee in life, I will love Thee in death,
    And praise Thee as long as Thou lendest me breath;
    And say, when the death-dew lies cold on my brow,
    If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, ‘tis now.

    In mansions of glory and endless delight;
    I'll ever adore thee in heaven so bright;
    I'll sing with the glittering crown on my brow;
    if ever I loved thee, my Jesus, 'tis now.
  2. We sing that hymn, too, sometimes.

    SueJLove likes this.
  3. Sue..........I do not usely respond to your posts for two reasons.

    1. They are just too dadgummed long.

    2. I do not think that they are your words. Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that your posts are from someone else.
    I really like speaking with THE person face to face so to speak and not through a 3rd party.

    I do not think that the USA is Babylon and in fact there are no Scriptures that place the USA in the Tribulation at all IMO.
  4. Major, you are correct. They are not my words. They are from someone else - The Lord Jesus gives me these words to write each day, so you can talk with him about it, though you will have to wait for heaven to speak with him face to face. And he is the one who determines the length, not me. I just write what he teaches me each day from my times with him. And I trust him to use these writings for his purposes and his glory.
  5. When I sit down to write each day I say, "Lord, you know I can't do this, so I trust you to give me the words you want me to write." Sometimes I have no clue even where to begin, but I pray, committing it to my Lord, and then it just begins to flow. That is all I know to tell you.
  6. Then my dear you have my heart felt apology.

    Now that we have fixed that.......what Scripture do you propose that declares the USA is in fact Babylon?
  7. Major, this is a matter of spiritual discernment. As we read the prophecies of scripture regarding the last days, the Holy Spirit within us gives discernment and understanding as to the true nature of what was spoken about with regard to the events of these last days. It is not spelled out for us in scripture, in Daniel or in Revelation or in any of the other prophecies of scripture, who exactly these final players are. So, we can either use our own intellect and reasoning, or that of others, to determine these things, or we can trust in the Spirit of God within us to give us understanding.

    So much of what is written about these last days is written in figurative and symbolic language rather than in literal language, much like Jesus' parables. He told his disciples that the parables had to be spiritually discerned, and the same is true with regard to these prophecies of scripture. I believe that if any follower of Christ would inquire of the Holy Spirit of God with all sincerity and truthfulness of heart, that the Lord Jesus would reveal these things to him or her, as well.
  8. With The Lord giving very specific details about the coming events of the Tribulation, times, places, nations and so on, why do you think then that He would have nothing at all to say about the USA being the Babylon of the end times.

    This is one of the great concerns that must faced when we begin to say what we think God has placed into actions either now or soon to come. Yes we can use our own thinking but the problem with that is that we are all sinners and our thinking can be clouded by that sin.

    I would recommend that we use the Word of God and not rely on what we think, but that is just me. Some people thought the Lord Jesus was coming in 1954 and 1968 and then some more thought the same thing about 1988 but here we are still.


    Because God said that no one knows when the Lord Jesus will come again. It does look like all things are lineing up and the 4 horsemen are ready to ride....but that is what I think so it is better IMO to wait on the Lord and His timing.

    As for God not spelling out who the end time players are, I would have to disagree with that "thinking" as I believe He has told us exactly who will be involved.

    We see in Ezekiel 32 that there are nations who are consigned to the Pit and it is that they are all the same Muslim nations that are persistently threatening Israel today. Now that is interesting.

    God’s anger and wrath against Egypt is declared in Psalm 78:43–51, Isaiah 19, Jeremiah 46, and Ezekiel 29, 30, and 31.

    God’s anger and wrath towards Lebanon is declared in Isaiah 23 (Phoenicia being Lebanon), Ezekiel 26, 27, and 28 specifically Tyre and Sidon, which are capital cities still present in Lebanon today.

    God’s anger and wrath against Syria is declared in Isaiah 10:5–19, Isaiah 14:24–27, Jeremiah 49:23–27, and Zephaniah 2:13–15; the whole book of Nahum prophecies judgment on Nineveh, the ancient capital city of Assyria.

    Ammon, Moab, Edom – All of these make up today’s nation of Jordan. God’s anger and wrath towards Ammon, Moab, and Edom is declared in Isaiah 15, Isaiah 21, Jeremiah 48 and 49, Ezekiel 25 and 35, Mount Seir being Edom. The book of Obadiah is about the judgment and destruction of Edom. The prophecy declares that Edom would be forever desolate.

    Philistia – today’s Gaza Strip. Ancient Philistia was an enemy of Israel since the days of Joshua and especially in the days of King David. Goliath the giant was a Philistine. The name “Palestine” was derived from the word “Philistine.” God’s anger and wrath towards Philistia is declared in Isaiah 14:28–32, Jeremiah 47, and Ezekiel 25:15–17.

    Elam – This is the ancient name of the area that became Persia, now Iran, Iraq, Afganastan. God’s anger and wrath against Elam is declared in Isaiah 11:11, Jeremiah 25:25, and Jeremiah 49:34–39, which is an apocalyptic oracle against Elam!

    The other nations listed in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are many of Israel’s current Muslim enemies as well. There is Put, which is today’s Libya, Cush, which is today’s Ethiopia, and/or Sudan, Meshech, Tubal and Lydia. Then there are Rosh and Magog, areas determined by most all Bible scholars to be today’s Russia.

    Then there is Kedar and Hazor, whose judgment is declared in Jeremiah 49:28–33. They are areas in today’s Saudi Arabia.

    There is also the mention of Teman several times. This is in the area of today’s nation of Yemen. Prophecies concerning Teman are found in Jeremiah 49:7, Ezekiel 25:13, Amos 1:12, and Obadiah 1:9.

    Then there is Babylon. God used the Babylonian Empire to chastise His people in Judah by allowing them to conquer Jerusalem, destroy the first temple, and take His people captive for seventy years. But Babylon was then conquered by the Media-Persian Empire and went out of existence. God’s anger and wrath against Babylon are declared in Isaiah 13, Jeremiah 50 and 51, and Revelation 17 and 18.

    My point is that God went to a lot of trouble to literally show and tell us who would be involved in the End Times. Having done that, He did not say one single word about the USA in any way whatsoever. So then if we go the route of believing we should use our own thinking and logic and slip in what we like then we have added to the Word of God and broken the command of Deut. 4:2.

    "And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit".
    (2 Peter 1:19–21).
  9. So, are you saying that you believe the events of Revelation 17 already took place in history and that Babylon of Revelation, i.e. the Great Prostitute who rides the beast no longer exists?
  10. NO my dear, I did not say that at all!

    I posted all of those countries to show you who is involved in the End Times during the Tribulation Period according to the Scripture and the USA is not one of them.

    To think that Rev. 17 has happened already would be the Preterism approach to prophecy and it is a heresy.

    There are actually TWO Babylon's in the Revelation. Chapter 17 is the judgment of the Babylon "System" which will be in place after the Rapture takes place.

    The End Time church appears to be a combination of all churches, both Catholic and Protestant. It will also take in the religious faiths and ism's that are in the world today. It is called "mystery Babylon" because of its beginning all the way back to Genesis 10 and Nimrod, his wife Semeramis and their son Tamuz which made up the original un-holy trinity. All false religions spring from this fountainhead of deception and lies. Some call this the "New Age Movement" but as you can see it is not new at all but is very, very old.

    The "Great Harlot" of chapter 17 in the Revelation is then a false religious system.

    Rev. 17:3 pictures the description of this Beast system and shows how the false church will ride upon the political system of the A/C .

    Now when we consider the USA and how deep we are into sin and rebellion of God, there is no doubt that when the Rapture removes the believers, the USA will run head long into a United World Church. This church IMO will fully indorce the A/C, immorality, lawlessness and unbelief. This system will support the belief that the A/C is in fact the MESSIAH, and through good works and taking the number of the A/C, the people of that day can be like gods which was the original promise from Satan to Eve.

    Chapter 18 of the Rev. is all about the judgment of the End Time city named Babylon which will be the headquarters of the A/C. It will be a real city destroyed in one hour for the whole world to see and mourn over. It is conjecture where this city will be. Rome, New York are cities thought to be in the running. I do not know because the Bible does not say.

    Both of these events are yet in the future and will happen toward the end of the 7 year Tribulation period. The point however is that no where is the USA specifically mentioned in the Scriptures as a player in the End Times. It may be, but we can not say for sure because the Bible does not say.

    Now, does that help you to understand where I am coming from and my understanding of the prophetic Word of God?
  11. Dear one, may I humbly and in love suggest you take your own counsel to heart.


    Major likes this.
  12. Amen my brother, Amen!
  13. Do you have no comments my sister to comment #10???

    Do you just post your BLOG and then not respond to it when you are questioned about something you have given an opinion on?

    You said.........
    " It is not spelled out for us in scripture, in Daniel or in Revelation or in any of the other prophecies of scripture, who exactly these final players are."

    I showed you in comment #8 that God has indeed told us who the end time players are as FOUND in the Word of God.

    I am not trying in any way to be argumenitive with you, but I for one accept the Word of God as His clear dirrections for us.
    It seems to me, correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be saying that because what YOU WANT to happen (USA in the end times) is not found in the Scriptures we are then free to come up with whatever we want to even the advice of others.

    Your quote from comment #7.............
    "So, we can either use our own intellect and reasoning, or that of others, to determine these things,".

    The BLOG you produce is well written and I congratulate you on your efforts. I am only saying that what you are writing is not Biblical when we force what we think into what the Lord has said.

    This is one of the most dangerous practices of those who seek to explain end time events. We must be carful to tell it like God wrote it, not what we wanted Him to write.
  14. Major, I was sick all weekend, as you will notice I did not post Sat or Sun. Mon I could not get on the site. I have trouble sometimes getting on this site, for some reason. Yesterday was a full day for me, as has been today so far. I have not forgotten you, but my response to you must be prayed through and not be responded to casually or lightly. So, give me time, and I will respond as soon as I am able. But, let me first off say you misquoted me here, I think maybe twice now. This is what I said:

    " So, we can either use our own intellect and reasoning, or that of others, to determine these things, or we can trust in the Spirit of God within us to give us understanding."

    In context, it was clear that I was saying we should do the latter, not the former. I believe my understanding is from God. You yourself said:

    "Chapter 18 of the Rev. is all about the judgment of the End Time city named Babylon which will be the headquarters of the A/C. It will be a real city destroyed in one hour for the whole world to see and mourn over. It is conjecture where this city will be. Rome, New York are cities thought to be in the running. I do not know because the Bible does not say."

    So, if NY is in the running, as you say, then it is in the USA, so whoever you are saying is saying that must believe it is possible that the USA could house the Babylon of the last days.

    As well, you stated that God has told us who the end time players will be in scripture, but then you agreed with me that Babylon is not named, which was my point, which is why I stated that it must be spiritually discerned, which is indeed scriptural, so I guess I have given you my response after all. I believe Babylon to be in the USA for many of the same reasons, perhaps, as others who believe it is possible, as you have suggested, but my main reason for believing that is because the Holy Spirit within me has spoken to my heart a hundred times over regarding the Babylon of the last days, and I believe very much, though my understanding is certainly not perfect, that the Lord is showing me the Us government and the institutional church here in the USA, which is in a covenant relationship with the government.

    I believe God is calling his true church to come out of her so that she does not share in her sins and in her punishment, but also because the church in the USA has made the government her Egypt, I.e. She has turned to the government for her protection, instead of The Lord, and she has made the government her head, instead of Christ. God is calling out to his adulterous and idolatrous church to return to him as her only husband and head. And that is the point.
  15. Duplicate post.
  16. Hey Sue,

    I'd like to ask for some clarification on a few things from your post, but I do think you've got some interesting insights as well. I was speaking with a pastor a few years back, in Canada, who was really worked up about some potential upcoming changes in the law. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was something like, churches were classified as public clubs, and some upcoming change would restrict what could or couldn't be said in public clubs. So this pastor was worried that churches would lose their buildings, and pulpit preaching was going to become illegal, so what would become of the nation? I remember thinking a pretty similar thing to what you seem to be saying -- the church doesn't need government support to be the church. We're not going to stop doing God's work just because we don't have our own buildings. The situation that pastor was worried about is not the situation now, but it could be, and probably will be, one day. So do we fight to keep what we have, or do we roll with the punches, and think up different ways to keep on doing the work of the church?

    These days, I work closely with the Salvation Army, which accepts financial support from the government and various organisations. The money they get from the gov and companies is used for specific humanitarian endeavors... disaster relief, family counseling, disability support work, prison chaplaincy, that sort of thing. I personally don't see the way the Salvos work with the government to be a bad thing. To me, it means that the Salvos are publicly respected for their track record of serving people, and making good use of the funds with which they've been entrusted. In my experience, the gospel message the workers are passionate about giving is not compromised by the Salvos' work alongside the government or other organisations. The truth is being spoken, and people are being saved. So... I guess I'm struggling somewhat understanding what you mean when describing the institutionalised church as turning to the the gov as its head instead of Christ, being idolatrous, etc. I don't live in America -- what's going on with the church in the USA? Maybe you can list some examples of what you mean? Is the message of the gospel being compromised by something the church is doing?

    Also, there seems to be a secondary discussion going on here, which is something I've been thinking about for a number of years: how do we know when we're being spoken to by the Holy Spirit? How do we distinguish the Spirit's guidance from something that may be, say, a strong and convincing urge that comes from ourselves? I have, and I'm sure most of us here have experienced this as well, heard plenty of people claiming to be speaking by the Spirit, when what they're saying clearly contradicts Biblical teaching -- but they're so convinced about what they're saying. My experiences witnessing that sort of thing have made me very wary of what I think may be the Spirit's guidance -- I don't want to believe something that just comes from myself; surely there are ways of testing the validity of what we feel may be the Spirit's voice. I've been convinced the Spirit was speaking to me before, and later realised I was wrong -- or more specifically, the Spirit was speaking to me, but I had interpreted the meaning incorrectly, dangerously. When we hear the Spirit, then, how do we know that it is the Spirit, and secondly, how do we know if we've correctly interpreted what the Spirit has given us? I've talked to people on this forum before about Acts 21, where lots of people receive a prophecy that Paul will be taken prisoner in Rome. Everyone agrees on the message, but not everyone agrees on the interpretation... actually, everyone but Paul interprets it as a warning for him to avoid Rome. So how do we deal with messages from the Spirit? How do we test their validity, and how do we know how to correctly interpret them?
  17. Roads, the depth of your questions warrants a prayerful response, so let me take this matter to The Lord in prayer, and i will get back with you as soon as I am able. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful inquiry.
  18. Whoops, that should read "Jerusalem," not Rome, where Paul was taken prisoner. My bad.
  19. #19 Major, Oct 9, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013

    I too have had a lot of trouble getting onto the site. I have no idea what is going on but I at times use another computer and have had trouble with it as well. I hope that you will feel better soon.

    Sue, I respect you greatly and your work, but I did not misquote you at all. I posted exactly what were your words. I simply did not post the total phrase which included...." or we can trust in the Spirit of God within us to give us understanding."

    Since I totally agree with that comment, there was no need to use it as a quote. I was only concerned with the 1st part of the quote so as you can see that is NOT a miss quote at all.

    Now as for Chapter 18 and me saying it is going to be New York, please look at what I said one more time.............
    "It is conjecture where this city will be. Rome, New York are cities thought to be in the running. I do not know because the Bible does not say."

    I said clearly that it is conjecture and I DO NOT KNOW. Some people say New York, some people say Rome. I have no idea.

    I agree also that the USA is a total spiritual mess. BUT again, I am not trying to argue, I am simply saying that the USA is not found in the Scriptures. It may very well be but we can not say with confidence that it is. I listed all the countries that God has said will be involved but the USA is not one of them WE can MAKE it one by our own manipulations and thinking BUT we can not find any Scripture to use as a basis for confirming such a comment.
  20. #20 Major, Oct 9, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
    [000ps..........double post}!

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