Sexual Activity In Church

Discussion in 'Marriage and Relationships' started by Where is the Messiah, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. I remember reading a thread on here, and someone had posted a comment talking about gay couples should be allowed in church. Which I didn't really disagree, or agree with it. I think there main point was that, that's where sinners should be. Either way it really had me thinking about the subject of unmarried couples that are sexually active inside the church.

    So my question is for the active church members. Gay couples in the church are probably not that common, so what about the sexually active unmarried couples that live together? How does the church members respond to these couples that are happily living together unmarried, but at the same time actively involved in the church?
  2. I think I said that, Where.

    I think it depends on how deep they are in the church. My belief is that God should convict people about their sins. Generally speaking, people are going to continue with whatever they are doing regardless of what the church is saying. That being said, I think that close friends do have some influence.

    I'm on my phone so I can't look it up but isn't there a passage of Scripture that says if you see someone sinning talk to them one on one, then to the elders, and then to the whole church?

    My belief is that the one on one should be reserved for very close friends or people that have the gift of compassion. Some people just have a caring spirit and everyone that talks to them can feel it. After that I suppose you could take them to the elders.

    I lived with my wife for a long time before we got married. I got kicked out of my parents house, and we kind of just ended up that way. Neither one of us could afford to our own place and we had no place to go. If I could have done it differently I think I would have. The reason I'm saying this is because it didn't matter what the church or my grandparents or anyone else said. It was either live together or we both would have been homeless.

    I don't really know how I feel about it. Sure, it's easy to point out sins of others and tell them to stop but you also don't know anyone else's circumstances. And also, if you are close friends with the person you may be assuming there is a sin when in reality there isn't.
  3. Hi beloved,
    Thank you for the response! My understanding is that you are saying in some circumstances sin is okay. Forgive me if I understood that wrong, coffee is starting to wear off.

    Here is some verses I found that I think relates to the thread:

    1 Cor 5 (highlighted main points)
    It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

    Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

    What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

    I'm not an expert, but here is my summary of this passage:

    1. Mourn for sinners in the church
    2.Kick them out of the church.
    3. Hand them over to Satan so that his spirit may be saved (I'm curious how this one works)
    4. Don't associate with sexually immoral people
    5. Also don't associate with greed people, idolaters, slanderers, drunkards, and swindlers (what's a swindler? A thief?)
    6. And then he says again kick the wicked people out, and that we should judge people in the church, but not the ones outside of the church.
  4. Living together isn't sinful. If we want to start kicking people out of the church if they continue it sin then you can kick all the old ladies out with their venomous gossiping tongues as well.

    Sin isn't okay under any circumstances but living in the same apartment in separate rooms isn't sinful. There was actually someone on here that says he's living with his girlfriend and he hasn't had sex with her for a year. It's completely possible.

    Just make sure you know that a sin is happening before you go kicking people out of church. That's all I'm saying.
    SparkleEyes likes this.
  5. Okay I see what you're saying. I'll save my thoughts on people living together unmarried and it being a sin for another thread. If we can I'd like to focus on your thoughts in regards to people knowingly sinning in the church, and the actions the church should take.

    So do you agree with the passage that sinners should be kicked out of the church, or do you disagree with it? Or do you believe the passage is not saying to kick out the sinner?
  6. I actually don't understand the passage, Where. I've read it a couple of times and I don't understand how you single out the people that are not welcome in God's house. We are all liars. We all have problems with idolatry and lust. We're humans and imperfect. How do you decide which person has sinned enough to be kicked out? Is it only the people that are most visible? If you do that then the only ones left would be good liars.

    David was a lustful murderer and he wrote most of our Psalms before and after murdering. Moses was a murder. Abraham was a liar even when he was following God's orders. Would they have been kicked out because of their sin? I don't know. It's two in the morning where I am so maybe I'll do a bit of studying on it tomorrow when I'm rested.
  7. well, for me, the question really depends if they are Christian or not.

    if they are Christians, then active sinning should be confronted , and there could be consequences of getting kicked out of the church. Straight or gay.

    but if they are non Christians, then they have no obligations to lead their lives in according to the word.

    not saying what they are doing is right, but they are not Christians yet, our job is share gospel and to love them, hopefully God would open their heart.
  8. After reading 1 for 5 I'm wondering should non believers even be allowed in the church based on what scripture says?

    But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
  9. Great thought provoking questions. I don't really have an answer either, it's getting late here too, and my brain is slowing down :)
  10. The church should be open to everybody that they may have the chance to hear God's Word and put what they hear into practice. It is one thing to hear the Word but another to have a practical faith. Some progress more quickly in the church and have been baptized with the Holy Spirit. Those who just go to church and continue living wrongly won't progress spiritually. Many people have been in the church for many years and their lives have not changed, this could be that they have not put their faith into practice. All the church can do is be open to everyone but it is for the Holy Spirit to change and convict a person.
  11. Mmmk I see what you are saying. So what do you think about 1 Cor 5?
  12. When we started a church here, we had several young couples that were "living together" that began to attend the church. The Spirit of God brought these folks onto the truth in such a way that all of them decided to get married and live in that which the Lord has ordained. No one had to confront them but God alone dealt with there hearts. I believe in large part we should allow God to bring folks along and give the Spirit time to do His work. Having said that.. if a known member (as in one who claims to be a part of the body) continues in a known sin (real sin) not eating grass stuff, such as gossip, sexual sin, greed etc.. Then it is the responsibility of the leaders to confront and if needed remove them from the body? God does not want us to shack-up..but that is a love issue. And all "sin" in the Church is a sin against love. Real agape love would never dishonor a woman in such a way.
    Where is the Messiah likes this.
  13. And as far as homosexual behavior, One might suggest that God would bring a man and a woman living together or in relationship into His Will. But there should be no doubt about this behavior as being unacceptable before God. If one struggled with this sort of sin, I would expect that they deserve some mercy as well, but the sin itself should never be suggested as acceptable in any way.
  14. When it says in 1 Cor 5:4-5, 'In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus'. I am no expert on these matters but those in the church living wrongfully are subject and under the influence of Satan himself. If one doesn't purge oneself of wrongdoing they are going to suffer the consequences.
    Regarding not to keep company with anyone who is sexually immoral, covetous, an idolater, reviler, drunkard, extortioner- not to even eat with such a person (5:11). They may be in the church but we should not assiciate with them personally. We don't have them as our friends. I see the church giving advice to people and praying for them but then they're on their own left to their own choices.
    Where is the Messiah likes this.
  15. I don't think we should consider unbelievers into this mix.. I think this is in reference to believing body.. Someone who is claiming to be a born-again believer.. Because Paul says "claims to be a brother or sister".. I can see below attitudes being condemned by Paul..

    1) Claiming that the person has a license to sin because Christ has already paid the price fully (as Paul says in Romans, let sin abound so that grace might be more abound)
    2) Denying that they are even involved in sin.. Living a deceitful life..

    I think the first category falls more closer.. When someone is doing this, and they are not willing to listen, that is when Paul is asking us to expel that person.. It is not a single act of disobedience followed by Godly sorrow.. It is willfully living a lifestyle that is completely against the Word and even pagans would not approve of.. Which would mean, the person is well aware of this and still boasting about it because he or she is taking grace too lightly..

    If we mingle with them, it would pretty much mean rest of the Church is approving their lifestyle..

    But it still leaves with me lot of questions.. Is it applicable to all kind of sin? Should we cast out a chain smoker from Church?
  16. It's strange to me that Paul is saying that we shouldn't be around sinners when they are the ones in need of the Gospel.

    1Co 5:11 ESV But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

    When Jesus said,

    Mat 9:12-13 ESV But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. (13) Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

    Granted, we are not Jesus, but wouldn't we be the ones leading the sick to the Great Physician? I don't understand how you can love someone and at the same time excommunicate them to shame them for their sinful behavior when we all sin. Some of us are weaker in our faith then others, so should we kick the weak out instead of trying to make them strong in Christ? I can't imagine shaming them would do anything except drive a wedge between them and their relationship with Christ.
  17. Like my previous post, I am underlining one important point.. Someone claiming to be a believer and willfully lives a life of complete disobedience.. I see it more of a way to send the message that they should really think if they are a believer at the first place!

    I am not sure if this verse should be looked with some cultural understanding as well.. I am wondering what it would have meant for someone to associate with another person or family and meeting them at house for lunch or dinner? May be today it does not mean much.. May be it was not the same at that time? I don't know.. Just wondering..
  18. This is one of my main issues with people kicking others out of the church. Try as we might, we will always think that the sin someone else is addicted to is greater than our own. That leads to the person who watches porn while his wife is in the next room kicking out the person who cusses a bit too much. All it sounds like is hypocrisy to me.

    That being said, I do feel that sins that effect the whole church should be addressed. For instance, if you know that there is a nineteen year old girl that has been prowling the church and having sex with weak men that can't control themselves then obviously that is a problem. She is ruining the church by leading others into sin that they otherwise would have not committed. Those kind of sins should be addressed, but then again if it was the pastors daughter she probably wouldn't get the same treatment as someone else would.
  19. Hey thanks for replying. It's interesting to hear from you, because you're not from the United States right?

    I like your main point. Someone claiming to be a believer, and basically knowingly and committing an on going sin..

    This would make sense with a gay couple that calls themselves Christians not being allowed in the church. Because that's clearly a sin, but what about a man and woman living together? Would that be less of a sin if they called themselves believers, and even though they're sinning, are planning to marry? So once they are married it wouldn't be a sin anymore, and we couldn't call it an on going sin?
  20. Yes, I am from India :) But I live in US now..

    I honestly do not know how to apply this for other sins.. What if they break up after engagement and just before marriage.. We never know they are going to be married until they are really married! They might do the same thing with another person once again.. What are we to do then? Same goes with other things like smoking, drinking, etc..

    I am wondering if this is something that should be looked from how Jesus explained.. The first step is approaching the person and discussing about it.. If they don't listen, then more people.. Then finally Church itself.. Even if they refuse to listen, then we have to let him be a gentile.. Which is what Paul is also saying here..

    15“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

    May be this will apply to people living together also? First we should advice them to marry soon.. If they are inclined in that path, then it's fine.. But if they say, they are just going to try out and not really interested in marrying, then we should confront them.. If they continue refusing to hear, they are no longer to be considered part of the Church? Thoughts?
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