Sex, Law, Grace?

[MichaelH]

Oh please, me too, I have a question I would like to have someone answer.

Blessings,

Gene

You are treading in very hard territory that can get mixed in the Land of confusion. Interesting and worth a go though.

The scripture never tells us man can or can not break the seal we are sealed with until the day of redemption.

sure it does ..
1 Ti 4:1 ut the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

Luk 9:62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

I have some "loose" explanations for all the scriptures you gave. For example, Kingdom does not mean you won't make it but you won't rule or have a place or reward. Kingdom is not a place, but a position. The only scripture there is that is conclusive is where Jesus blots your name out of the book. Hebrews 6 and 10 denote a believe that is most likely on their way to the Hot place but after using faith, knowing the truth and leaving anyway despite the Spirit of Grace.

http://www.forum.mikecarolhelmickministries.org/index.php/topic,36.0.html

The OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) doctrine is rooted in Calvinism. (Election)

Molinism and Arminianism both attempt to keep the Soverigenty of God and at the same time claim that man has a free will unlike Calvinism by which man does not have a free will.

However, both Doctrines also say that God is all knowing of any future events, and you often hear expressions that God lives outside of time and other Star Trek related nonsense. So though man has a free will, God knew anyway what the man would choose. Molinism will allow men to choose and if it's not according to God's Divine will, then God knowing the possible outcome of all choices possible and all alternate realities created, God may step in and change outcomes though man believes he made the choices.

The big problem with these two doctrines is that their reliance on the Sovereignty of God boils God down to a mere fortune teller with God's foreknowledge.

If that is the case then one has to ask at what point did God know? for if God created the spirit he put in man knowing the outcome then it's not foreknowledge but it's back to election. That is the Calvinist argument.

In other words if I created a building that I knew would get flooded and ruined by the place I put it, then it's not foreknowledge anymore that the building could get flooded but I would have to take responsibility for putting the building in the flood zone.

Only scriptures can sort this stuff out. It gets pretty convoluted.

Blessings.

 

[ixoye_8]

You are treading in very hard territory that can get mixed in the Land of confusion. Interesting and worth a go though.

not hard if you have the HS to explain these things .. I suggest you take my responses to God Himself for verification ..

I have some "loose" explanations for all the scriptures you gave. For example, Kingdom does not mean you won't make it but you won't rule or have a place or reward.
Kingdom is not a place, but a position.

the Kingdom of God is what is Godly/Holy .. hence the Kingdom within ..
heaven (which is the abode of God) is His Kingdom as well ..

The only scripture there is that is conclusive is where Jesus blots your name out of the book.

I gave you quite a few that said ETERNAL PUNISHMENT to those who confessed belief (Lord, Lord) ..

Hebrews 6 and 10 denote a believe that is most likely on their way to the Hot place but after using faith, knowing the truth and leaving anyway despite the Spirit of Grace.

http://www.forum.mikecarolhelmickministries.org/index.php/topic,36.0.html

use your own words to me please .. I wont respond to a website but to any I am here to serve and will respond ..

The OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) doctrine is rooted in Calvinism. (Election)

God gives those who OBEY the HS in His side of the Promise made to Abraham .. He will NOT renig .. but we can ..
HENCE SALVATION IS A HOPE BECAUSE WE CAN RENIG ..

Molinism and Arminianism both attempt to keep the Soverigenty of God and at the same time claim that man has a free will unlike Calvinism by which man does not have a free will.

man does have free will .. so did the fallen angels .. man also has HELP by God .. that being FORGIVENESS OF SINS REPENTED .. thus we can always UNDO what is offensive to God IF we are sincere ..

However, both Doctrines also say that God is all knowing of any future events, and you often hear expressions that God lives outside of time and other Star Trek related nonsense. So though man has a free will, God knew anyway what the man would choose.

exactly .. God knows before we choose, what we will choose .. that is WHY people have a hard time with scripture which says He predestined us .. that only means He either wrote or not your name in the Book of Life LONG BEFORE you would make your freewill choice .. that in NO WAY nullifies free will ..

Molinism will allow men to choose and if it's not according to God's Divine will, then God knowing the possible outcome of all choices possible and all alternate realities created, God may step in and change outcomes though man believes he made the choices.

that nullifies free will .. which nullifies love .. if love is not of free will, it is NOT love ..

The big problem with these two doctrines is that their reliance on the Sovereignty of God boils God down to a mere fortune teller with God's foreknowledge.

If that is the case then one has to ask at what point did God know? for if God created the spirit he put in man knowing the outcome then it's not foreknowledge but it's back to election. That is the Calvinist argument.

God knew before the foundations of the world (Mat 25:34, Eph 1:4, Rev 13:8, Rev 17:8) thus before he created Adam He knew who would and who would not love Him with their all and neighbor as self ..

In other words if I created a building that I knew would get flooded and ruined by the place I put it, then it's not foreknowledge anymore that the building could get flooded but I would have to take responsibility for putting the building in the flood zone.

God is collecting hearts .. WE either build on solid ground or not .. NOT God .. that is OUR FREE WILL to build in either spot (Mat 7:24-27) ..
note: notice the words ACTS ON THEM (not just hears) ..
He just knew which we would choose .. BUT the whole purpose is WHAT WE GO THROUGH who DO CHOOSE His ways .. that is what makes OUR LOVE pleasing to Him .. WE LOVE HIM ABOVE ALL JUST LIKE HE DOES US .. those who want to build on the sand do NOT love Him and no different then satan or fallen angels ..

Only scriptures can sort this stuff out. It gets pretty convoluted.

Blessings.

God has ONE TRUTH .. the easiest way to understand is to LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL ELSE, and He Himself will sort it out for you ..

God Bless You As You Seek To Learn And Abide In His Ways ..

 

[MichaelH]

http://www.forum.mikecarolhelmickministries.org/index.php/topic,36.0.html

use your own words to me please .. I wont respond to a website but to any I am here to serve and will respond ..

sure Ok.......... I personally wrote that and if you notice the name.......... Mike Helmick and my wife Carol, it's on my website. I am not retyping it or doing a massive copy and paste, so don't read it, fine with me.

God knew before the foundations of the world (Mat 25:34, Eph 1:4, Rev 13:8, Rev 17:8) thus before he created Adam He knew who would and who would not love Him with their all and neighbor as self ..

We go back to the argument, If God knew, then God had to elect. If God had to elect then He did not know but caused. God did not just create a mass of people, plop them down to be born in different locations without any plan did He? Then He just knew "AFTER" all the people were place........

That means God had to create each person with no idea or purpose until after they formed in the Womb. If He knew who would love him before the foundation of the Word, then that is Election, not foreknowledge. What point did He know?

Foundation of the Word, Before the foundation of the World:

Your mixing these up, go back and look again, they are not saying the same thing or saying what you may think. We have 3 places that talk about "Before" the foundation of the World. Eph, Peter and Jesus mentioned it twice.

There is ZERO scripture denoting that God knew who would love him.............. ZERO!!!! You have one that is close, but it's not what it's saying. If we are going to talk about this, I ask you Please just stick with 100% with what the scripture says. We have no scripture that denotes God knew a thing about who would love him. We have to read all the scriptures in context.

Eph_1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Jesus killed from this World. Nothing mysterious here.......... He died here.

Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This does not say "Before the foundation of the World" It's all the names written in the book of life since the foundation of the Earth had been laid.

Those that heard and believed were put in the book....................

Luk_11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

These are the prophets since the foundation of the World that gave the Word that people believed and who's names were written in the book.

Lets say away from make believe please and religion......... 100% scripture with other scripture confirming.

There is ZERO scripture that tell us God knew who would love him........ ZERO scripture that tells us God knew Adam would blow it.

These scripture are used by Calvinist and twisted the same way or twisted the other way by Arminism. Both understandings are WRONG.

God is Love:

You mentioned this, and this is on track................ Love hopes the best and expects the Best, So love would not expect failure or plan failure would it?

It is the absence of this understanding of Love that makes these crazy old dotrines people believe.

For if God choose who goes to hell...................... That is not love.
For if God Knows who is going to Hell, but made them anyway to burn for eternity.......... That is not love.

 

[ixoye_8]

sure Ok.......... I personally wrote that and if you notice the name.......... Mike Helmick and my wife Carol, it's on my website. I am not retyping it or doing a massive copy and paste, so don't read it, fine with me.

my apologies .. I did not know it was your authorship .. I get a lot of people throwing cc&p articles at me and I don't read them anymore .. because I want to speak heart to heart to people .. in saying that, I think you touched on that point .. my opinion is the whole of the NT and God's plan is in perfecting hearts .. that's why works are important for HELPING to perfect your heart and WHY James says "Faith without works is dead" (far from a straw Epistle) .. because you can have all Faith but without LOVE you are nothing .. consider Paul's words of 1 CR 13:1-13 (please take the time to read it again, it always gives more insight each time you do) .. He says the same thing, that Love is greater then Faith .. so we DO KEY IN ON GOOD WORKS/BEARING FRUIT as the greatest means to perfect our Love for God by loving God and others .. He washes our feet, because He wants us to wash others feet .. in other words we show God we love Him by loving others ..
es muy importante ..
God Bless you ..

BTW: I will respond to the rest asap ..
BTW: if you ever notice on the rejection of believers you find in the NT, each and every time it was for a lack of compassion .. hmmm

 

[ixoye_8]

after reading 1 Cr 1-13 which is VERY POWERFUL .. here are a couple more ..

Ti 6:18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

1Ti 6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
1Ti 6:4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,

1Ti 6:11 But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.

2Pe 1:5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
2Pe 1:6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
2Pe 1:7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
2Pe 1:8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

 

[ixoye_8]

BY GRACE/COMPASSION JESUS PAID THE PRICE SO A NEW COVENANT OF FAITH COULD BE ENACTED .. IT IS BECAUSE OF THE CROSS WE EVEN HAVE A COVENANT ..

THE CROSS WAS A GIFT TO WHOMSOEVER WILL KEEP THE COVENANT OF FAITH .. WHICH IS ..
1) BELIEF
2) REPENTANCE
3) OBEDIENCE
IF YOU DO NOT KEEP THE COVENANT OF FAITH ..
THEN WHAT HE DID ON THE CROSS DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU ..
HENCE "WHOMSOEVER" (John 3:16 & 36) ..

SO DID JESUS ANSWER THE QUESTION OF HOW TO GAIN SALVATION WRONG ??? .. JESUS TELLS US IT IS LOVE THAT IMPUTES SALVATION ..

Luk 10:25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Luk 10:26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
Luk 10:27 And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Luk 10:28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

if you love God you try the best you can to please Him ..
if you do NOT try to please Him, you do NOT love God ..

see if you can solve this ..
why would God throw Satan and his angels out of heaven for being disobedient and not repenting (non-love) .. then go and let a bunch of humans in who can be disobedient and not repent (non-love) ???

some think God isn't too bright ..
that's like having a girlfriend you give her everything she needs, that treats you really badly, so you throw her out, then you go and get a new girlfriend who you give her everything she needs, that treats you really badly .. and then saying: WOW, I want to marry this one ..

there are two Commandments on which salvation is based (Luk 10:25-28) ..
but notice these two commandments are not part of the 10 Commandments nor are they Mosaic Law ..

Deu 6:5 “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Lev 25:17 ‘So you shall not wrong one another, but you shall fear your God; for I am the LORD your God.
Lev 25:18 ‘You shall thus observe My statutes and keep My judgments, so as to carry them out, that you may live securely on the land.

Mat 7:12 “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
Mat 22:37 And He said to him, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’
Mat 22:38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
Mat 22:39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’
Mat 22:40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

the law (of Moses) AND statues given by the Prophets all fall under those two ..
ALSO you can divide the 10 Commandments under those two ..

1) love God with your all ..
Commandments 1 - 5 fall under (Exd 20:3-12 & Deu 5:7-16)

2) love neighbor as self ..
Commandments 6 - 10 fall under (Exd 20:13-17 & Deu 5:17-21)

sooooo ..
the 10 commandments
the Covenant of Law
the Covenant of Faith
all three rest on theses two .. LOVE ..

guess God is pretty smart after all

 

[Brother Paul]

You've been together for years and he doesn't want to marry you. There's YOUR red flag.

pete you may have made an assumption here...maybe he has ask her in the past....maybe it is lynn who does not want to marry him...just say'in we do not know. It does not sound like he is cheating on her or is interested in another...

lynn not trying to pry but does he not want to marry you? Have you two ever spoken about it? The reason I ask is because our culture has moved "normal" for this way outside of God's designed parameter. In the time of the scriptures throughout the world (and in that culture) you and he would long have been married (either to each other or to someone else). The answer to the need to express these God ordained impulses (sex was God's first blessing upon man) would have been long accomplished if this were according to His will (but sadly we changed the rules ignoring His will...and now we have these dilemmas)

 

[Brother Paul]

no he is .. those whom scream legalism and such do so trying to justify sin ..
most likely the term "under grace" he got from Apostle Paul ..
AND Paul says UNDER GRACE fornication is still a SIN ..

1Cr 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Amen...this is the word of God. Fornication (hetero or homo) is still a sin...and if honest most here fornicated before they were married. They (we, certainly me, I was very pagan and loved it it not knowing Jesus) either fornicated physically with others or did so in their minds among themselves...so no one here is innocent (thats why we all need Him)

Refraining and telling him why and how you feel is the remedy which should reveal his hand...tell him you love him and want to be with him but from now on you cannot, only if you are married...see what happens. Then the question arises what is marriage? Commitment before God and each other consummated? Was Noah's marriage in some allegedly God ordained ceremony? Or Abraham's with Sarah in pagan Haran? Most Christians today believe the only "real marriage" is in an the place of an institution...two young Nigerian Yaruba nature worshippers get married according to their customs...they stay together and bare children...are they married or fornicators living together? If they get saved should they be remarried in a Christian ceremony? Does the Bible have anything to say about this?

 

[MichaelH]

if you love God you try the best you can to please Him ..
if you do NOT try to please Him, you do NOT love God ..

see if you can solve this ..
why would God throw Satan and his angels out of heaven for being disobedient and not repenting (non-love) .. then go and let a bunch of humans in who can be disobedient and not repent (non-love) ???

I think your pretty close to solving what religion has not been able to solve for years...... (I mean years) you spoke about love, and by that we know God is Love. Not that we loved him, but He first loved us.

Any persons that loves God will do as God asked and please God. We know them by their actions...... (Fruit)

Solving:
Angels are not in the God class, we are. They are created servants and should perform as they were created. Much like a car should keep getting you to work or else you fix and/or replace the car. There is no Love in God for what He created to serve no more than I love my can opener created to open cans. Servants do as expected to do or you throw them out and get new ones.

Being created as god in God's own image then we have the ability to fellowship with God on a level the angels can't. They do as they have learned and told. No angel using their own wisdom has done anything that worked. They do by servitude, we do it out of Love. There is a night and day difference between a created thing to serve and a real child just like yourself.

Love solves the confusion: (Does God predestine, Just have foreknowledge, or neither)

Foreknowledge in that God knows ahead of time who will serve him and who wont sounds OK on the surface but if you examine what that exactly means you will understand God has no foreknowledge of what anyone is going to Be doing 5 years from now.

I know that is a pretty bold statement, but one has to ask...... How would God know? God knows one thing about us, that is our heart. He would know by that what choices we might might if presented with a situation. We see that here with God speaking to Moses about Pharaoh. God knows Pharaoh, God is the one that made Pharaoh King and blessed him.

Exo 3:19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.

I am sure is not a predestination statement, it's not a I already know ahead of time statement. It's a statement based on Pharaohs past deeds and current heart condition.

If God has Foreknowledge of every persons choice then it's no longer foreknowledge but predestination. If God had any foreknowledge then one has to ask at What Point did God get that? God put the spirit in man, so it's hard to believe God just dropped a bunch of spirits into a bunch of bodies and then it came to him one day some dawning revelation of what each man would end up choosing.

Zec_12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

That would mean God has no plan for each person made, nor is in control of his creation but is more like a fortune teller that just sits and knows stuff.

If God's foreknowledge is before placing the spirit into a body then it's no longer foreknowledge but predestination and man has no free will. If God's foreknowledge comes after, then we are not fearfully or wonderfully made nor made with a plan or thought.

This is the Calvinist argument. It is logical and makes sense as God being some fortune teller does not make sense at all. So God knows, because God caused.

This theory of predestination is the only thing that makes sense, but it violates a higher law.... The one you described. The Royal Law of Love.

This is why its an extremely serious matter to obey God and do what you said you would do and do what God told you to do. God does not have foreknowledge but what is in your heart and past actions, nor does God have predestination.

Every person created was created with a plan and a predestined path. You find the Path, obey and God can tell you exactly where you will be and what you will be doing in 20 years. He knows because he had predestined that path for you ahead of time before you were born.

This is why we are warned to stay the course, run the race, Stay on the path of righteousness because off the path it's dark and bad things can happen. Off God's path people run into things God never intended for them to go through. Gods foreknowledge comes from predestination of you doing what he said do. You disobey, you get out of Gods protection and path of light.

This is long enough, I'll give two scripture example out of many scripture examples.

And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
(Gen 18:20-21)
This is not predestination, not some foreknowledge (Study out cries to the Lord) God heard from above in the spiritual cry of something. He personally went down to find out though if the cry matched what was going on.

This is a good example of how God always operates. Many do not like this scripture but scripture is sent to correct us. Having the Holy Spirit connects us 24/7 to Heaven always.

Example 2: and why its very serious to obey God and do what He says do.
There is a belief in the body of Christ that what happens is all the Will of God and obey, have faith, or speak unbelief does not matter but things just turn out the way God planned them anyway. This is deadly thinking.

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

How does the Lord know? Because He personally knows the man in question. The man has proven faithful to Him and that is How God knows. Not by some forcing of predestination or some foreknowledge. Abraham drew close to the Lord and the Lord drew close to him.

Gen_22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

When did God know? When Abraham was going to sacrifice his only son to Him. This gave God legal grounds to send His son for men, and why we are the seed of Abraham.

A person may repent and sin again and repent............ Fine be forgiven, but don't equate forgiveness with being blessed or ever seeing the plan of God in your life. God knows by trust and faithfulness, and if a person can't stop sinning then God can't give more to someone unfaithful and someone He can't trust. People wonder why they struggle year after year................... ummmm.



Blessings.

 

[lynn w]

I guess the question I have to ask is............. Have you had sex before with this guy?

Does that make a difference?

 

[MichaelH]

Does that make a difference?

I think you missed everything else I said. You gave the impression that you were just keeping yourself and this guy was just using religion to have sex. Bla, bla, bla, bla.

I asked the question in my first post because they way you typed things I knew you slept with him before. I did not know you had actually been married to him. \

since you skipped over my post above though............... You divorced this guy but think in some way God likes reconciliation. Your self deceived and believing nothing based on nothing.

To have faith for something we need to hear, and what we hear is in line with scripture. I gave the scriptures above.... I am not typing out the proof again.

Had you just had sex with this guy and violated your conscience then that is your fault, not the guy for who are we to judge him but he is what He always was until the Lord changes him. Dogs will grab meat off the counter until trained.

since you married him and divorced that is a whole other deal. All you gave us is this guy and religion and things that don't help at all find you scriptures to help.

Here is my post and your answer, I went and hunted it since we sort of got off topic and that would not be your fault but ours.

As I suspected, only half the story as the emotional ties you explained are very uncommon unless married or the couple had been having sex. We have a whole lot of post by newer Christians who have been saying how wrong this man is, but I did not buy into it.

This man is not in the wrong and who is the judge? He is what he is and was as he is when you married him. Once he got comfortable with you and had you in his grasp then he allowed his real character to show.

Not my first Rodeo.

Abuse:
The first time this guy kicked you or hurt you should have been the last. Something is wrong with you inside and you need to get God's help and get it fixed. If you love someone, you have their best interest at heart and would never think of harming them or even hurt their feelings. Your confused that this guy actually loved you at some time and it is not so. You represented what need you could fill for him as often the case with most abusive people. This is not his fault, He is what he is. A dog is always a dog unless God changes them.


Kicking your spouse or abusing them is a high misdemeanor charge or Felony in the state I live in. I don't know where you live but Love does not enable people to continue to sin and this guy should have been reported the first time.

My Father in-law locked my mother in law in a room and that netted him 1 year in the county jail for unlawful restraint. I bet he don't do that again.

This is not about what a Pastor preaches, hyper grace, it's about YOU.

This whole thing is about a women that has low self esteem and trouble with bad emotional ties. If everything you said about this guy is true then there is nothing to hold onto that a Women of the Most high would be interested in. You believe God loves to reconcile these broken marriages.................but you would need scripture to believe that. There are none, and so your believing in nothing. It's a bad place to be when you think your in faith for something that is not real. It's called being self deceived.

1 Co 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart (chōrizō ) from her husband:
1 Co 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

The Word depart means to put a room between or to separate by room. It does not mean divorce which is a separation before the Lord and as Moses mentioned and Jesus mentioned. It means they separate for a time and Reconcile back. Not re-marry back.

chōrizō (Means depart or separate by a room)
apostasion (Means to divorce by certificate) We also get Apostasia from this Word meaning

Paul's instruction by the Lord was if the spouse depart, let them depart and the women remain unmarried (To anyone else) or come back to the Husband. The Husband was not to put away his Wife.

Put away is not the same as divorce. It was a practice to put away one wife and take another while keeping the original wife bound and unable to be free and Marry again with no bill of divorcement.

Mar 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
Mar 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
Mar 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Jesus said you can't just "put away" but must provide a bill of divorcement. If you Marry another while married to one, it's adultery.

What does the scripture say to your situation?

1 Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

The scripture says we can't know if we can save a unbelieving spouse. So any faith that a relationship can be fixed is based on nothing. Your waiting to see if someone you divorced would come back and that takes it to a whole other level. By the Word of God they are not yours, it's like believing that any man you choose will come to you and it don't work that way.

We are to be free from abuse and these things in Christ Jesus. This is why these scriptures were given to us so that you can serve God and be happy. You have a right to believe God for the best husband who serves God and is a leader of his family. You should not be hanging on to dead things that the Lord has set you free from for you may be a very old lady before this guy gets turned around or even if He gets turned around. The scripture says we don't know.

You should also seek some help as to why you accept any form of abuse and why you would tolerate such a thing. In 23 years of marriage it has never crossed my mind to hit my wife and as I have grown stronger in the Lord I avoid any conversation that would remotely bring up past hurt feelings. How I feel is not what matters, It's How I make her feel. You should expect the same from the future Husband God would have in store for you.

 

[ixoye_8]

Does that make a difference?

unmarried sex is fornication and a sin ..
so it matters to God, and should to you ..
meaning you need to have "a change of heart on that" (repent) ..
Jesus says you must be born again to enter heaven ..
Paul tells us that means dying to the flesh and becoming alive in the spirit ..

if you want to be a Christian, you aren't just because you say "yeah, I believe God is real" .. Christian means Christ-like aka an adherent of His teachings ..

so cut to the chase ..
tell him no more sex or marry me ..
if having sex is more important to him then being your partner ..
then you have low self esteem to accept that .. and you need to improve your personal relation with God, and assume the self dignity that is His will for us ..
ask yourself this .. am I a good ambassador (representative) for God ???
if you don't want to be, then you chose the wrong religion ..
perhaps universalism is more suited for those who wish to live according to their will instead of God's .. blunt ??? .. it was meant to be ..

praying for you ..

 

[lynn w]

I think you missed everything else I said. You gave the impression that you were just keeping yourself and this guy was just using religion to have sex. Bla, bla, bla, bla.

I asked the question in my first post because they way you typed things I knew you slept with him before. I did not know you had actually been married to him. \

since you skipped over my post above though............... You divorced this guy but think in some way God likes reconciliation. Your self deceived and believing nothing based on nothing.

To have faith for something we need to hear, and what we hear is in line with scripture. I gave the scriptures above.... I am not typing out the proof again.

Had you just had sex with this guy and violated your conscience then that is your fault, not the guy for who are we to judge him but he is what He always was until the Lord changes him. Dogs will grab meat off the counter until trained.

since you married him and divorced that is a whole other deal. All you gave us is this guy and religion and things that don't help at all find you scriptures to help.

Here is my post and your answer, I went and hunted it since we sort of got off topic and that would not be your fault but ours.

What I'm asking for is an answer to my question about sex out of marriage. I wasn't asking for an analysis of my mental state or my weaknesses. I'm well aware of my mistakes. That's between God and I. I've repented and am trying to be kind, loving, and forgiving. I am not allowing abuse...we're divorced. We do not live together. I'm not afraid to tell him when he's out of line. I'm not afraid to admit my faults to him or anyone else. So, because we're divorced and we have obviously been intimate does that mean it is not wrong now? I believe it is. He believes it isn't. We BOTH profess to be Christians. THAT THAT THAT is what I'm having a hard time with. I think sometimes "talking" with this format can give the wrong impressions. I wouldn't set out to mislead anyone. That's not so I am.

 

[lynn w]

unmarried sex is fornication and a sin ..
so it matters to God, and should to you ..
meaning you need to have "a change of heart on that" (repent) ..
Jesus says you must be born again to enter heaven ..
Paul tells us that means dying to the flesh and becoming alive in the spirit ..

if you want to be a Christian, you aren't just because you say "yeah, I believe God is real" .. Christian means Christ-like aka an adherent of His teachings ..

so cut to the chase ..
tell him no more sex or marry me ..
if having sex is more important to him then being your partner ..
then you have low self esteem to accept that .. and you need to improve tour personal relation with God and assume the self dignity that is His will for us ..
ask yourself this .. am I a good ambassador (representative) for God ???
if you don't want to be, then you chose the wrong religion ..
perhaps universalism is more suited for those who wish to live according to their will instead of God's .. blunt ??? .. it was meant to be ..

Thank you. That's exactly what I've done. That's exactly what I've told him, God is above ALL for me FOREVER. God bless you!

 

[ixoye_8]

Lynn .. friends of mine (2treez) wrote these very simple words ..

Mat 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Luk 13:23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them,
Luk 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

1Pe 4:18 AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?

2treez wrote:
Jesus only asks, that
we care for Him as
He cares for us,
heart, soul and mind.

that IS salvation ..
to love Him back as He loves us ..

betrothed = our lives ..
the period where we prove our love is mutual ..

Luk 10:25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Luk 10:26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
Luk 10:27 And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Luk 10:28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

the simplest way to explain HOW Faith & Works are BOTH needed is this ..

I could tell a woman I love her, and NEVER do anything for her, or choose what please me or my friends over what pleases her .. so HOW MUCH do I really love her ??? .. with my ALL ???

simply put words are cheap and what your lips profess is NOT always what is in your heart .. this is WHY God "REFINES/TESTS" us .. to make us either confirm or expose what is TRULY in our hearts ..

Abraham .. do you love me with all your heart, mind, body & soul ??? .. yes Lord .. ok, let's see if that is true ..

Rich man .. do you love me with all your heart, mind, body & soul ??? .. yes Lord .. ok, let's see if that is true ..

get the point ??? .. God may not actually require what He asks, but will take you to task to test your lips and heart and see if your professed love is a lie ..

Paul uses the analogy of "a race" .. we are "in it to win it" .. yet "winning" is based upon if "you endured" and "running the race well" ..

the catch is self .. if you could guarantee that you would not default in your love .. then you could claim salvation while still alive ..

Hbr 5:9 And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

 

[ixoye_8]

Thank you. That's exactly what I've done. That's exactly what I've told him, God is above ALL for me FOREVER. God bless you!

God Bless YOU Lynn ..

 

[ixoye_8]

more lessons in perfecting your heart ..
here is the reply I received, and my reply back ..

2treez wrote:
ix, a good post.
we have met few that have been willing
to part company with their
immediate possessions in order
to follow Jesus Christ.

2treez ..
to most material gain will hurt you, because being a good steward of it is difficult in not making it yours but God's ..
this is WHY it is hard (not impossible) for the rich to enter heaven ..
however, to those who are good stewards of material gain (understand all belongs to God) to them He gives even more that they may administer to the poor and as such bear much fruit ..
in reality .. these few who master this, hearts are even more golden then those who are poor ..

so the fine line (and difficult to keep in focus) is NEVER looking at material gain as belonging to you ..
for greed is powerful and most often very difficult to subdue ..

as to me, I am weak .. so I live simple ..

Mat 5:30 “If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

[lynn w]

I think you missed everything else I said. You gave the impression that you were just keeping yourself and this guy was just using religion to have sex. Bla, bla, bla, bla.

I asked the question in my first post because they way you typed things I knew you slept with him before. I did not know you had actually been married to him. \

since you skipped over my post above though............... You divorced this guy but think in some way God likes reconciliation. Your self deceived and believing nothing based on nothing.

To have faith for something we need to hear, and what we hear is in line with scripture. I gave the scriptures above.... I am not typing out the proof again.

Had you just had sex with this guy and violated your conscience then that is your fault, not the guy for who are we to judge him but he is what He always was until the Lord changes him. Dogs will grab meat off the counter until trained.

since you married him and divorced that is a whole other deal. All you gave us is this guy and religion and things that don't help at all find you scriptures to help.

Here is my post and your answer, I went and hunted it since we sort of got off topic and that would not be your fault but ours.

Michael, I did not "skip over" your last post. I've read every post. Again, I did NOT set out to intentionally deceive anyone! Whether or not we'd had sex shouldn't change the answer should it? I also never said he was using religion to have sex. When we met and to this day 8 years later he professes to believe in Jesus and be a Christian. Therein lies my other concern... How can two believers have such opposite views about something as important as sex out of marriage?
To be honest, the bla, bla, bla comment you made was disrespectful to me, imo. That is something he would say to minimize my cares. I sure hope I've misunderstood you.
As Christians shouldn't we be here ready to edify and encourage each other? That's why I came to this forum in the first place!
Just saying.

 

[lynn w]

MICHAEL YOU SAID


"You divorced this guy but think in some way God likes reconciliation. Your self deceived and believing nothing based on nothing.
To have faith for something we need to hear, and what we hear is in line with scripture."

Yes, I believe God's best is forgiveness and reconciliation! I've forgiven him but we are not reconciled. How am I self deceived? And what do you mean when you say I'm "believing nothing based on nothing"?

We have been divorced for a few years now. And... We are not having sex.

 

[MichaelH]

Michael, I did not "skip over" your last post. I've read every post. Again, I did NOT set out to intentionally deceive anyone! Whether or not we'd had sex shouldn't change the answer should it? I also never said he was using religion to have sex. When we met and to this day 8 years later he professes to believe in Jesus and be a Christian. Therein lies my other concern... How can two believers have such opposite views about something as important as sex out of marriage?
To be honest, the bla, bla, bla comment you made was disrespectful to me, imo. That is something he would say to minimize my cares. I sure hope I've misunderstood you.
As Christians shouldn't we be here ready to edify and encourage each other? That's why I came to this forum in the first place!
Just saying.

Lynn............. I am not disrespectful. I have consoled several marriages. The right answer is normally not what the people want to hear. It's called a word in season in scriptures. That means they are in a position to receive. A word out of season means they are not in the place to recive so you just encourage until God gets them in a place to hear.

So......... I am not listening to anything else. You want free or not.

You want to serve God and do what is right. We don't unequally yoke ourselves with anyone, not even friends. This guy you divorced, He was abusive according to what you described and his view on scriptures needs lots of improvement.

If he is so free thinking and deceived about the Word, then you who want to serve God should have nixed this guy out long ago.

Since your divorced now, there is no scripture that promises you guys will ever be back together. Even if they depart we are told we don't know if they will be saved or even serve God. People have a free will.

the problem is the same problem I have had to deal with when there was sex or an EX spouse. There are emotional ties that are hard to break, but should be broken. Since your serving God and want to do right then there are lots better people out there for you as we don't know what this EX will do or even if He will ever serve God.

I gave you scripture, I want you to be free to serve God and believe God has someone awesome for you ahead. You wasted 4 years of your life already waiting for nothing, and you are God's child and should be free.

Be blessed.