I agree with that. We have so many denominations because as a rule, people will gravitate to what THEY WANT TO HEAR, not what they NEED to hear.
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Serve God And Not Religion!
- Thread starter vengaturreino
- Start date
I agree with that. We have so many denominations because as a rule, people will gravitate to what THEY WANT TO HEAR, not what they NEED to hear.
here is a good example .. I bet if I asked 100 people to write down on a sheet of paper what this verse means, I would have 100 sheets of paper with no two the same ..
Isa 11:8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
Isa 11:8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
Agreed!
I have many "brothers and sisters in Christ" who are very "regemented" by what their denominations teach them (no denomination excluded) and when you challenge them to use critical thinking, they instead go to google and cc&p a commentary which agrees with what they were taught .. the thing is, I can pick any topic and find a 10 totally contradictory commentaries on that topic .. so what we have here, is not a need to find truth, but a need to endorse religion .. and what this thread is about ..
to be open .. I admit half of what I "thought I knew" was religious opinion (doctrine) that I was told was true .. so I say to all ask God .. and if He does not tell you at that time, then seek those who He does ..
I read the ECF letters and I can easily see which were, and which were not actually taught by God .. so many doctrines arose in the church as it grew, because people did not test the teachers .. and the church then lost interest it seems in seeking teachers who are put in place by God and not those self appointed ..
as I read Paul's letters, you can see he combated those that taught by own reasoning ..
so to reiterate, religion was an inevitable occurrence, but as the opening thread astutely mentioned, we are to seek His voice .. personally, when I hear some speaking, I hear God's words with their voice .. so if God Himself tells me or God Himself tells me through another, it is still God .. but the thing is, those who teach, should be PROVEN as of God before we just "agree" as Major said, for the sake of "what tickles our ears" ..
to be open .. I admit half of what I "thought I knew" was religious opinion (doctrine) that I was told was true .. so I say to all ask God .. and if He does not tell you at that time, then seek those who He does ..
I read the ECF letters and I can easily see which were, and which were not actually taught by God .. so many doctrines arose in the church as it grew, because people did not test the teachers .. and the church then lost interest it seems in seeking teachers who are put in place by God and not those self appointed ..
as I read Paul's letters, you can see he combated those that taught by own reasoning ..
so to reiterate, religion was an inevitable occurrence, but as the opening thread astutely mentioned, we are to seek His voice .. personally, when I hear some speaking, I hear God's words with their voice .. so if God Himself tells me or God Himself tells me through another, it is still God .. but the thing is, those who teach, should be PROVEN as of God before we just "agree" as Major said, for the sake of "what tickles our ears" ..
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Let it always be by the Holy Spirit, friend.
amen ..
I have just enough intelligence on my own, to know enough to draw no conclusions and just mentally record the evidence until confirmation is given by God ..
Does He still confirm it by two witnesses or three?
indeed .. God expects nothing from us He Himself does not do ..
MichaelH
Inactive
Talking to an Apostolic Pastor in his office about why the church he was Pasturing had like 12 people and not grown in 30 years. He said he needed to paint the door a different color. (It was an ugly purple) He also said they need a better location. It was in the middle of the hood so to speak but lots of people everywhere.
I was thinking inside it could be there was hardly any people because of what he believed and taught. Not many want to hear you have to wear a dress and guys can't wear shorts even outside to mow grass.
Then the Lord spoke to me, Not a voice but inside. "It's not that the church needs to preach more truth, for if it did the people would leave and join what they want to hear. If the truth was in all churches then there would branch up twice as many to cover what people wanted to hear, just making more churches."
My Doctrine is that God is Love. Not that God loves, but is love.
So, I view all the scriptures in light that God wants to help and not hurt.
What you have described is "legalism" my brother.
It is a man made set of rules where by the members must agree to follow or that are removed.
All it takes is one person who is out to make money any way they can and you have a mess on your hands.
I say again.......there are NO Apostles today. I do not say that to anger anyone or upset anyone. It is just basic Bible knowledge 101.
We have the Bible the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. There is no need for an apostle or prophets today.
When either one of those are allowed to exist in a chuch, look out brother......problems are on the way!!!!
MichaelH
Inactive
Well, Not sure how many Apostles where running around in the Church. what I do know is the Pastor did not see his list of rules and bondage doctrine was driving people away, not drawing them in. He blamed the color of the door instead of looking inward. I just sat and listened, I don't give advice if not asked. I have learned someone must want help before you go helping them.
Apostles just means sent one. Barnabas was an Apostle and was just sent out to start works. It's a Greek Word still, but the English word we have today for them is Missionaries. Those sent to dark places to start work where there is none.
Prophets today exhort. They are not like the OT nor add to scripture. The office is still around today. I think we equate Prophets with having Words from God that give direction to all churches.
No real Prophet has any authority over any Pastor's church. It's a helps ministry.
he gave some Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, pastors and teachers. If one is been removed then they all are removed. NO, they all are still here today. There are not scriptures telling us any of the offices are not needed today. They all are for the perfection of the saints and they vanish once we don't need any more perfecting.
If you have already arrived Major then congratulations................. I have lots more work and appreciate all the offices God has put in place.
Well, Not sure how many Apostles where running around in the Church. what I do know is the Pastor did not see his list of rules and bondage doctrine was driving people away, not drawing them in. He blamed the color of the door instead of looking inward. I just sat and listened, I don't give advice if not asked. I have learned someone must want help before you go helping them.
Apostles just means sent one. Barnabas was an Apostle and was just sent out to start works. It's a Greek Word still, but the English word we have today for them is Missionaries. Those sent to dark places to start work where there is none.
Prophets today exhort. They are not like the OT nor add to scripture. The office is still around today. I think we equate Prophets with having Words from God that give direction to all churches.
No real Prophet has any authority over any Pastor's church. It's a helps ministry.
he gave some Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, pastors and teachers. If one is been removed then they all are removed. NO, they all are still here today. There are not scriptures telling us any of the offices are not needed today. They all are for the perfection of the saints and they vanish once we don't need any more perfecting.
If you have already arrived Major then congratulations................. I have lots more work and appreciate all the offices God has put in place.
But Michael, you have said over and over and over that you only accept and believe what God has said in the Bible. Today we have we have the Word of God today for directions. Prophets are not needed as God has said what needed to be said. Now you are saying that prophets and apostles are OK to give us directions out side of what the Bible has given to us.
Now I am not sure who you are speaking about but I am talking those people who claim that they are a Prophet or an Apostle.
They preach to the church ALWAYS saying ....."God has just spoken to me and said.............".
That is who I am talking about.
As for Apostles. Are you not aware that the Mormons re-write the Bible constantly???? If one of their Apostles says that this or that which is in the Bible is not true or we do not need that today, they simply re-write it based on the Apostles authority.
Do you think that is an acceptable process???
Are you not contradicting yourself?
The prophets sometimes spoke revelation from God (Acts 11:21–28) and sometimes simply expounded revelation already given (as implied in Acts 13:1, where they are connected with teachers). They always spoke for God but did not always give a newly revealed message from God. The prophets were second to the apostles, and their message was to be judged by that of the apostles (1 Cor. 14:37).
Another distinction between the two offices may have been that the apostolic message was more general and doctrinal, whereas that of the prophets was more personal and practical.
Like the apostles, however, their office ceased with the completion of the New Testament, just as the Old Testament prophets disappeared when that testament was completed, some 400 years before Christ. The church was established “upon the foundation of the apostles anti prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). Once the foundation was laid, the work of the apostles and prophets was finished.
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MichaelH
Inactive
It is very rare if I ever contradict myself.
I don't give a rats backside what all those others believe. Could care less that TV (prophet) has given 20 prophecies that never came to pass. Really could care less what the Mormons do as they are confused enough.
We do have the Word. Jesus said those that believe in their Word. He was talking about the 12 that were with him. Paul came in as a replacement. That is the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, and there are no other 12 like them.
Apostle does not mean to Write scriptures. I means to be sent out. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Barnabas was an Apostle, but not part of the 12. That means we don't have the book of Barnabus to read.
Faith comes by hearing, not reading. We follow after those who through faith a patience inherit the Promises. We hear, not read the anointed Word. Nothing in there about reading to get faith, though once expounded on we read and add by the spoke word to us.
God speaks to me............... Often.
That is not a prophet office. That is the sheep hear his voice office.
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
(1Co 14:29-31)
Let the prophets...... people called as Prophets speak by two or thee. Paul keeps things decent and in order. Not all Prophets would get to speak. Unlike tongues there does not need to be a known interpreter.
Prophets teach and comfort. They give prophecy to edify.
Peter talked about False Prophets. Paul said despise not Prophecy but prove all things. Must have been a trouble with everyone claiming to hear something from God even in those times. There must have been lots of Thus saith the Lord when the Lord never said a thing.
I can't help what others do, Hearing God does not make you a prophet or Apostle. However just because people are dumb, does not remove the offices. We still need those offices today.
If someone said God said this, then it needs judged if it's to a congregation. A Pastor is suppose to lead his people, not the Prophet or Apostle.
If a Prophet says he has a world wide message, I would say he is needing to get his head checked.
I heard God about something the wife did the other day. The Lord told me and wanted me to talk to her about it. That was not being a prophet, I just Heard the Lord like every believer should be hearing the Lord.
So I am not contradicting myself at all, and I could care less what the clowns in the World are doing. It does not remove the real.
Be blessed Major.
Some people who have heard about Jesus (already know some doctrine) will "gravitate" to soothe their itching ears, but not all. There are those who are truly seeking, and will seem to be jumping from one church to another; but they are really seeking a fuller walk with the Lord, and not finding the growth they feel they need. We should not judge everyone the same.
"Prophets are not needed"???
I still see lost souls, and Babes in Christ crying because they need the nourishment of more solid food...and the denominations cannot feed them because they cannot give what they don't have.
The denominations have muzzled the mouths of them who have been called as apostles and prophets: telling them since they were babes that the Ministry consists solely of pastors, and some teachers.
Major, why point to them that propagate false doctrines of men (Mormons), to weaken the faith of the faithful; preach instead, what the apostles and prophets within the scriptures have been declaring for centuries!
The apostle to the Gentiles, in what seems like in a single breath, declared what is the Ministry of the Lord: "...and some, apostles; and some, prophets, and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers." Do you believe that only the one man ministry of the pastor can edify the Church, show her how to work the ministry, and perfect the saints? That is not the government that the Lord Jesus established. If denominations are prosperous, it may be only because they are pretty good administrators: not because they have the full gospel that saves!
Amen.....nope .. you misinterpreted me .. all I did was ask 2 questions, and I was smiling as I typed it
well Jesus was not against legalism, because it was God who instituted it ..
and Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it ..
nonetheless .. I am now under the law of Christ, which Jesus also instituted ..
and he also sends people to hell for being "lawless" (see Mat 25) ..
so I like legalism .. and I am a law unto myself within that legalism on that which is not enumerated explicitly .. so yes .. I guess you can call me to be a legalist under the Covenant of Faith .. and it is a VERY GOOD thing ..
God Bless you ..
I would rather be a legalist than an "Ilegalist"
MichaelH
Inactive
Reading back over Major's stuff a few times so I don't misunderstand or misquote him. It sounds more like those "Prophets" Major has seen and seen self proclaimed have been way out in La la land full of spiritual air castles.
I think Major wants to believe the office is still around, I just don't think He has been around it or understands it and certainly does not like what He see's on TV....... Which I am the same.
There are Prophets today though, they work in healing Gifts and are a edification ministry.
The office comes on the man to do the office. The man don't carry the office with him.
Blessings.
Just as the "gods of this world" are gods only to the ones that worship them, the "prophets" in the denominations are prophets only to them. But the prophets whom the Lord has called are not limited to a denomination, and the gifts operating in them will not glorify anyone but the Lord Jesus.
As for the lack of a need for the office of the Apostle, that's why we see the "Goliaths" lifting up their serpent-heads through the abundance of sin.
The Office of Prophet works for the "...perfection of the saints...".
I believe you have "bitten into the apple" of "legalism" .. I think it is unhealthy ..