Saved Once: It’s Saved Or Wasn’t Saved! –netchaplain

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, Feb 1, 2012.

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  1. We can be saved only one time, because that’s all it takes and there’s no Scriptural evidence of anyone being saved twice.

    We know that to be saved, one must come to Christ, for He said “No one comes to the Father except through Me” (Jhn. 14:6). We also know that it requires the drawing of one to Christ, by the Father, for “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him” (Jhn. 6:44).

    Can anyone who is drawn by the Father, to Christ, refuse to come to Christ? “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me” (Jhn. 6:37). This is, at the least, declaring that all who come to Christ is because of the Father’s drawing, but I believe that it intends that all whom the Father draws willcome to Christ, because the phrase “gives Me” in v 37 is synonymous with “draw him” in v 44.

    Does anyone who comes to Christ for salvation, ever leave Him? “That of all He has given Me I should lose nothing” (Jhn. 6:39).

    One can appear to be in Christ by profession, but a said faith is a dead faith. “But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works” (Jam 2:18).

    One can appear to be in Christ by demonstration. “Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Mat 7:23).

    Abiding in Christ is the evidence of being in Christ, because if they leave, it shows they never were in Christ, regardless of their profession and demonstration. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but [they went out] that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us” (1Jo 2:19).
  2. BUT this we DO know for certain, our names CAN be BLOTTED OUT of Christ's book of life!!

    Ex 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

    Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    I note the promise is to he who OVERCOMES.

    We should be careful to understand that salvation is not assured by what WE DO but by what the Lord DECIDES. Salvation is by the GRACE of God, not the RIGHT of Man. No matter how "Good" a Christian we try and be our salvation is the Lord's decision ALONE. The danger of the "once saved always saved" doctrine is that underlying it is the idea that God no longer has the right to change His mind or have a choice in the matter.

    The truth is the Lord ALWAYS has a choice in the matter of your salvation and the right to change His mind about it. We need to understand that for ALL eternity we will live by the GRACE of God alone.

    Today I am saved by the Grace of God ALONE. TOMORROW I will be saved again by the Grace of God ALONE. The NEXT day I will be again saved by the Grace of God ALONE. The day after that I will be ........

    My assurance is my FAITH in the Grace of God alone - day in and day out for all eternity, not some doctrine of "once saved it is somehow impossible for God to "UNsave" you."
  3. You have my vote brother!
    If we CAN lose our salvation then the next question has to be......
    What do I have to do to keep my salvation?????????????

    My concern then is that they do not fall into the error of trying to keep their salvation by their own works.
    To keep ones salvation means DOING SOMETHING. Keeping the Law, going to church, feeding the poor, visiting the sick, tithing our income etc.
    This is very problematic since it moves away from salvation by grace.
  4. It is only problematic if we fail to understand that what we ARE called to obey is no longer the word and command of God through the Law given to man through Moses but the word and command of God given through Christ Jesus Himself which does not contradict the Mosaic Law, it supersedes and SURPASSES it.

    Hebrews 5:9
    and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

    Regards Misty
  5. Major, it's going to take a while longer for many to know the difference between trusting in His Grace more than in our faith. Many refute OSAS because they're not looking for it in the Word and they don't believe you can know your saved until the ressurrection. Scripture encourages us to know, now, for understanding His promise of eternal life.

    "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life" (Jhn 5:24).

    We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death" (1Jhn 3:14).

    These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life" (1Jhn 5:13).
  6. Here's a good example of the use of a Bible commentary--John Gill. It's a good verse Mistmann posted, concerning "I will blot you out.":

    "Not that anyone that is really in the book of life is ever blotted out, or that anyone predestinated or ordained to eternal life ever perish: but some persons may think themselves, and they may seem to be written in that book, or to be among the number of God's elect, but are not, and turn out obstinate impenitent sinners, and live and die in impenitence and unbelief; when it will appear that their names were never written in it, which, is the same thing as to be blotted out of it, see Psalm 69:28. Now by this answer the Lord does not absolutely refuse the request of Moses with respect to the people, though he does with regard to himself, and the blotting his name out of his book; and it is plain, by what follows, he meant to show mercy to the people, since he bids Moses go and lead them on towards Canaan, and promises an angel to go before them; though he reserves to himself a liberty to chastise this people for this sin, as he should have opportunity, along with others.
  7. Correct my friend. ONCE saved always SAVED only is in effect when one is ONCE SAVED!!!

    The same thing applies to "having your name blotted out of the Lambs book of life". It has to be WRITTEN down first!!! John Gill lived a long time ago, but I will place his teachings among the the best who have ever lived.
  8. If you want to continue to believe that you must do good works to stay saved.....go right ahead my friend. It is your choice but you can not use Hebrews 5:9 to claim it as you did here.

    The Greek word here in Heb. 5:9 ...."OBEY" translated as "TO LISTEN, to ACCEPT".

    Jesus said in John 5:24.....
    "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that hearth my Word and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life".

    The Lord Jesus also said that "IT IS FINISHED"----and that means He has done everything necessary to make salvation possible for humanity. To believe then that we must DO SOMETHING, or OBEY the Law to stay saved IMO is a lack of understanding the process of the "grace of God" in salvation.

    All know and understand that Sin is the transgression of God's Law. In order for God's holiness to be met, there had to be ONE to make propitiation for the sins of the people to satisfy God concerning His Law...........

    Isaiah 42:21...
    "The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness sake: He will magnify the Law and make it honourable".

    It was divinely imperitive that God's Law be perfectly kept, perfectly obeyed, every jot and every tittle, in word and in deed. Therefore, Jesus was made under the Law and being made under the Law, born of a woman, HE fulfilld every jot and every title OF the Law.

    Galatians 4:4-5........."But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

    Matthew 5:17..........."Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil".

    Now then.....when the unbeliever hears the Gospel and puts his faith and trust in the finished work of Jesus, the perfect obedience of Christ is then imputed to that believer.....

    Romans 5:19..........."For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

    We, all humans are saved by God's grace through FAITH. The part of the sinner is to believe and therefore our salvation DEPENDS SOLELY ON THE OBEDIENCE OF THE ONE WHO DIED TO REDEEM US; THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. Righteousness for men is not attained by anything we can or must do or earn but is IMPUTED to us through Christ. So then it is what He did......

    However, the magnifying of the Law involved more than keeping every jot and tittle. The penalty on behalf of sinners must be suffered, and the fact is that Jesus paid our penalty.

    Galatians 3:13........"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree".

    Christ offered Himself and in offering Himself He presented to God a sacrifice which met EVERY REQUIREMENT OF THE LAW, every requirement of God's holiness and justice and He did this offering to God as Priest. This is basis of God's grace for salvation and if we think that we must DO something to get saved or stay saved, we have in fact have not grasped the concept of grace.
    YES.......Christianity can be summed up in one word......OBEDIENCE. NOT of anything that needs to be achieved by works, but as the act of hearing the WORD of God, hearing the WORD that brings faith and faith then exercised in the FINISHED work of Jesus which brings salvation.HE is the Author of eternal salvation, the Author of our faith and apart from Him there is no salvation.

    Now is you choose to believe you need to DO works, or anything to stay is your choice NOT God's requirement.

    Ephesians 2:8-9......"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
  9. Major, I agree about Gill, but his dispensatioanlism isn't in agreement with mine. He taught that Christian Gentiles are now the new spiritual Israel, which must be a misunderstanding that has been around recently, last thiry years or so.

    I'm about to post an article I've been putting togther concerning Israel and the Church and it's definately been the harest one for me so far. One thing that helps me is the replies i get from this site and about eight other forums I've been sharing with for awhile.
  10. Hi Net..........
    Let me ask you a question. Since Jews and Gentile now come to God on the same basis, which is faith in Jesus Christ, doesn't that make the Gentile a "spiritual" Jew and now the saved Jew and Gentile make up the Church of God.
  11. If Jesus has asked that you do something and you do not do it then clearly you have not LISTENED to or ACCEPTED His command. To obey IS to LISTEN and ACCEPT instruction and commandment.

    The Greek word translated here as "obey" is "hupakouo"
    When JESUS HIMSELF says:-

    Matt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

    I am inclined to LISTEN and ACCEPT what HE says. You must decide for yourself whether or not you will listen to and accept the words of Jesus and His Apostles. They have made it plain it is about the DOING not the mere SAYING. Those who talk the talk but do not walk the walk (ie works of obedience to His word and command) do not enter Heaven. Jesus said it, if you have a problem with it take it up with Him. We have had this same discussion too many times before for me to want to explain the obvious again. I'll leave it to the Lord to speak for Himself on the matter. HIS words are clear enough for those who understand them. Let people decide for themselves.
  12. Hi Major and God's blessings to you and yours!

    Your question is the crux of the issue I've been attempting to address and I'm about to post a study which I've been in the middle of these last few weeks concerning just that. I can see how Scriptures related to this issue can be easily misunderstood.

    I haven't seen actual Scriptural support for the concept that the Gentile believer is a spiritual Jew. It flows more sensably to understand that there will always be believing Jews and Gentiles and there's no reason, except for misinterpretations, to think that every nationality that believes is spiritualy Abraham's children or becomes the "true Israel". I'll be explaining that Abraham's parantage to all believers is related in the seed of faith, not in a spiritual nationality.

    The Jews and Gentiles who believe before the rapture do make up His Body and Church. But the majority of the Jews in the world will not be saved until the Millennium, which I don't believe at this time, will be part of the Church--the Heavenly dwellers, due to their unbelief. Again, this is just speculation for me at this time, but in my present understanding, it's more than likely to be true, per Jhn 20:29 and other indications.

    The true Jew is the Jew that believes and I'm looking at how they connect with the unbelieving Jew in the Millennium.
  13. You are correct. We have had this discussion before. Whether or not I will listen and accept the words of Jesus is more of an insult than a comment, don't you think????
    I see no reason for such a thing to be said. This once again, has nothing to do with works for salvation. You are trying to make it that, but it is not so.

    I have demonstarated to you before that Matt. 7:21-23 is Jesus warning of the destruction and doom of "hypocrites" and false prophets. The verse is very clear, but I will explain it again. "NOT EVERYONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD:-------clearly that means not all who say they are believers are in fact believers but instead are MAKE BELIEVERS. This verse simply can not be used as an example of OBEDIENCE for salvation since it is not directed at anyone who is a child of God. It is just plain wrong teaching to try and do so.

    You posted Matt. 7:21, but let us also post Matt. 7:22 for the proper "context" shall we???..........

    "And then I will profess unto them; I never knew you. Depart from me ye that work iniquity".

    There it is as plain as day..............I NEVER KNOW YOU!!!!!!

    The people doing deeds, works to be saved..............WERE NEVER SAVED TO START WITH!!!

    Now as you said of the word of Jesus.......and I quote you for the sake of clarity........................

    " You must decide for yourself whether or not you will listen to and accept the words of Jesus and His Apostles. They have made it plain it is about the DOING not the mere SAYING. Those
    who talk the talk but do not walk the walk (ie works of obedience to His word and command) do not enter Heaven. Jesus said it, if you have a problem with it take it up with Him."

    Those are YOUR word Misty, not mine my friend. So lets face this straight up ONE LAST TIME ........These people in the passage you used to give an example of obedience is need to get to heaven--------JESUS SAID OF THESE PEOPLE, I NEVER KNEW YOU!!!!! THEY WERE NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH so there was nothing to obey!!!!!

    I am not like some here in that I do not make open judgments or accusation on who is and who is not a believer That is not my job. Judgment belongs to God. As for "taking anything up with Jesus"............that is just ridiculouse!!! Jesus IS GOD!!! Why would I or anyone else want to TAKE IT UP WITH HIM. That almost comes across as another insult, but be that as it may, I will leave for others to think about. I have no desire to argue, insult you.

    Having said that allow me to say also that since it is imperitive that we do the will of the Father if we are to enter the Kingdom, we must certainly THEN KNOW WHAT THAT WILL IS and how we may DO HIS WILL.

    We already know that works DO NOT save and that salvation is totally from God to man. That is the GRACE of God. there a Scripture that tells us what we are to DO???

    Well what do you know........I found one!!!!!

    John 6:38-40
    "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

    There it is---the WILL OF THE FATHER.

    It is the WILL of God that we BELIEVE in CHRIST to be raised up at the resurrection!!!! We become sons of God by believing on Jesus and trusting Him as our personal Savior.
    We do not have to keep rules, Do deeds, be good or obay to keep our salvation.

    John 1:12-13
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

    God loves us and saves us for Jesus sake (Ephesians 4:32) and the ONLY WAY TO PLEASE GOD IS IN CHRIST by FAITH NOT WORKS.

    Ephesians 2:8-9
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

    Now, IF you want to believe that obedience, deeds and works are needed to be and stay saved.......GO RIGHT AHEAD ---------but please leave me out of the conversation. I have already done two long posts on this and there is nothing else that I can add to the situation.

    My life long understanding is the the blood of Jesus cleanes me from ALL sin and there i not one single thing I must do to be saved or to saved !!!

    Will a saved man want to do good deeds after being saved....YES!!!

    God bless
  14. Yes.......I understand that. I was talking about a "spiritual Jew" not a national position.
  15. No insult intended Major. Merely trying to avert yet another lengthy debate on the same subject by pointing out some factual realities as to why there is nothing to debate about this matter.

    If I may explain it this way. ALL I have ever said is what Jesus Himself has said in Matt 7:21 which I quoted in my last post. That is, that ONLY those who actually DO the will of the Father enter the Kingdom of Heaven. As "works" in the NT refers to the things we DO then DOING the will of the Lord falls in the description of "works" which seems to be a trigger word for all sorts of debates. That is why I originally avoided the word but it seems there is no avoiding it. I am merely speaking of what Jesus has told us we must DO if we are to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, namely the will of the Father. But doing the will of the Father is also being OBEDIENT to the Father for to do the will of the Father, we must do that which He commands us to do.

    Now the only way to disagree with what I have said, (which is, that in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven we must actually DO the will of the Father), is to declare that we can enter Heaven WITHOUT actually DOING the will of the Father. (ie. we don't actually have to DO anything to enter the Kingdom, which is what being saved is all about).

    BUT such a declaration is directly CONTRADICTORY to what Jesus Himself has plainly declared in Matt 7:21 . I have merely REPEATED what Jesus Himself has plainly and clearly SAID. To disagree with my words is to disagree with the words of Jesus whose words I have simply repeated.

    For me the fact that JESUS has plainly and clearly declared it is the END of the argument. If Jesus and the Bible plainly and clearly declare something to be true then I accept that as the ultimate authority on the matter. Jesus said it, I believe it, end of debate.

    I am merely pointing out that for me there is no debate and no argument that you can put forward that would cause me, and I am sure any other person who is in Christ, to abandon and dismiss as incorrect and untrue the authoritative word of Jesus on any matter. Especially when His word has been so clearly and plainly given.

    I am merely ensuring that others here take careful note of what Jesus Himself has declared on the matter. I am sure they will accept the supreme authority of His plain and clear word on the matter over either of ours.

    Hopefully we can move on passed it now that Jesus Himself has settled this matter.
  16. If 'n I may make a general observation, directed at nobody in particular. Discussions of this nature, 'sometimes' get bogged down with communication misunderstandings about or involving works, law, works of the law and so on. There are the works of the Law, such as not eating pork, pressing the button at a pedestrian crossing on the Sabbath, and so on. Gal 2:16
    Then there is there is the law of Christ such as John 13:34 John 15:12 John 15:17.
  17. There was no misunderstanding on my part Calvin. Absolutly none. You read post #13 so I am sure you know exactly what the meaning of the verse was.
    Now if you want some circular reasoning take notice of Misty comment of.............

    "Now the only way to disagree with what I have said, (which is, that in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven we must actually DO the will of the Father), is to declare that we can enter Heaven WITHOUT actually DOING the will of the Father. (ie. we don't actually have to DO anything to enter the Kingdom, which is what being saved is all about)."

    "we don't actually have to DO anything to enter the Kingdom, which is what being saved is all about)."

    Isn't that exactly what I said in the beginning???????

    Ephesians 2:8
    For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

    Acts 16:30
    "They brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" .

    Of course, you do not deserve salvation. There is nothing you can do that will make you worthy of it. You cannot be saved by keeping the Ten Commandments, for the Scripture clearly shows that you have not kept them.

    Romans 3:20 says:
    "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

    "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."​
    Many, many Scriptures repeat again and again that there is no salvation through human goodness.
  18. Major as I said, I was not directing my comments at anyone. I am not siding with anyone; just making a general observation is all.
  19. Hi Net. You definitely make a strong case for once saved always saved.
    I think we all feel like posting here is repeating ourselves :) , but this is one subject I don't mind going in circles on, its so interesting and important to have clarity on.

    Yes, not saved twice, but we can leave and return to our salvation. The prodigal son returned to his father. James 5:19,20 talks about a 'brother' who is restored, is saved from death. Rev 2:4,5 explains that a saved person has fallen and left their first love, unless they repent their candlestick will be removed.

    I agree!

    Yes, ''come to me' but not necessarily choose to 'stay with me'.

    Yes, Jesus will never lose, leave nor forsake us, but we can lose, leave and forsake Him.

    Most who don't believe in eternal salvation don’t automatically believe in a ''works based salvation''. But rather a works based loss of salvation. To lose our salvation takes effort to go against our nature and giving into an evil desire to continue in an extremity of sin, grieving The Holy Spirit.

    To generalise this verse seems wrong.

    Reading through verses I have quoted before, I see how terms like shipwreck, falling from steadfastness and going back to vomit can be interpreted as a believer merely stumbling. However, when I put on my 'once saved always saved' cap, I can't get past verses like these (in addition to Rev 3:5 already mentioned):
    The parables of the prodigal son and the ten virgins.
    Mark 13:13; All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
    2 Peter 1:10,11; Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
    1 Cor 10:12; ''Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall''
    James 5:19-20; "[19] My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, [20] remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
    Rev 2:4,5; Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
    Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

    My conclusion is, that God wants us to know His closeness and have confidence in our salvation, but at the same time, He wants us to know the risk of continuing in an extremity of unrepentant sin.

    My wife made me think though. She said, the devil went from light to darkness and can never return to the light. Likewise we have gone from darkness into light and can never return to darkness. Definitely food for thought.
  20. I understood that Calvin. I was just putting in my 2 cents.
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