Salvation after Rapture

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by THALLON, Dec 7, 2015.

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  1. Salvation is not something we are running to acquire, it is something that was given to us as a "gift". We do not earn gifts, we simple receive them.

    Rom 6:23.. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Running the race has nothing to with salvation, it has to do with earning "rewards". There are five "crowns" that can be earned as a Christian in this life, but salvation in not one of them.
     
    Angela333 likes this.
  2. I reject your long and drawn out responses. Not so much because they are rambling and going from one thing to another without making any sense, but mostly because YOU ARE WRONG!

    We are saved when we are born again. Saved means that we are not going to be judged for our sins because Christ has taken them upon Himself and paid the penalty for sin which is death. We are saved from the penalty of sin----death!
    We are saved from sin and saved unto heaven!

    I am sorry you do not understand that doctrine but it is Biblical none the less.

    You stated..............
    "Not only do we need Kingdom vision so that we develop our vision to see the principles of the Kingdom of God".

    That is not true either my friend. We must be convicted and convinced that we are sinners and can not save ourselves. Then and only then can we turn to Christ for the forgiveness of our sins.
     
  3. And you are 100% correct!
     
  4. The Olympics is not salvation my friend. To qualify for the Olympics one must WORK to get there. In salvation one who is lost CAN NOT DO ANYTHING to be saved. Salvation is 100% a God thing.

    You are teaching a false teaching my friend.
     
  5. You said................
    "But the promised land was not the prize either."

    Wrong! The Land is exactly what God promised. It was their SIN which separated them from God just as ours does today.
     
  6. Maybe you're right, but my take is two-fold:

    The law is written on our hearts. Salvation can be obtained by listening to the prompting of the Holy Spirit via the conscience (which is the law written on our hearts speaking to us).

    Romans 2:14-15 (KJV)
    For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) ​

    The entire world will hear the gospel in their own tongue by God's messenger flying through the air. (I'd LOVE to see that now!)

    Revelation 14:6-7 (KJV)
    And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. ​

    That's my two cents. :)
     
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  7. As I said you are reducing everything to being BORN again.
    You may object to the length of my posts but your argument such as it is simp,y stops at being BORN.
    Then what?
    If you can show me where I have denied all those things that you mention are the milk of the Word please show me. A FOR I have not done so.
    I would suggest therefore that you go to Hebrews and see that conviction repentence and faith towards God are in Paul words but the milk .
    The church like a lot of other things has made the milk the meat even as it has made the wandering in the wilderness for 40 YEARS as the norm of the Christian life.ant to be BORN again as the be aLloyd and end all of the salvation of God.
    Your objection to the length of my post where I am simply proving this is not so is to your loss and you do rob your self.
    I then take objection to the shortness of yours.not so much because what you say is wrong as to being BORN again, but in your dismissal of what I have written as to show there is much more.
    It is a biblical argument.
    Which is the biblical way to prove something.
    I recommend that you once again look at the letters of Paul to the Romans and Hebrews where he did not simp,y quote scripture alone but argued get
    His case using scripture as and when and pertinent to the argument.
    To that end so then have I.
    If you do not or are not willing to follow the argument perchance others will and will Co email to their own conclusion. If I have expressed it badly I will happily try another way .

    In Christ
    Gerald
     
  8. To get out of Egypt was not the prize.
    Nor was going into the promised land the prize.
    It was either or both those ideas that led them to sin.
    If you are BORN again is not your sin dealt with?
    Are you not now reconciled to God or in other words NOT separated fro God?
    Know ye not that they who are joined to the Lord are of ONE Spirit?
    How is it then you say you are still separated fro God?

    In Christ
    Gerald
     
  9. It is not I who used the analogy of a running race,but Paul.
    You have spectators and you have runners.
    You have to apply to run a race and you cannot win the prize without running!
    Nor can you without finishing the race!
    Then is not running by your argument working and by your own efforts running the race?
    Nope,
    It is your good self that has it wrong. And you will have to take it up with Paul.
    In Christian
    Gerald
     
  10. Good stuff. No argument from me because it is not worth arguing about. See ya later!
     
  11. Again you are wrong! I am NOT reducing everything down to "being born again".

    Jesus already did that my brother, not me.

    Being born again IS THE ONLY THING that matters in this lifetime.
     
  12. Then if you cannot understand the natural how can you understand the spiritual?
    For to be BORN into this life is NOT the be all and end all of this life.
    How then do you think it is to be BORN again?
    And seeing that we are called to GROW in grace and in the knowledge of God,
    To grow from little children to young men to fathers,
    That alone says we don't stay babies.
    Getting out of Egypt is to be BORN again in type or shadow. That too was not the be all and end all .
    But there you are enough has been said.

    In Christ
    Gerald
     
  13. Sadly, very sadly I must once again tell you that you are in error. NO ONE chooses to be born physically into this world Gerald, NO ONE!

    BUT we must all choose where we will spend eternity because we all have an eternal home but the only way a man gets to his home in heaven is by being BORN AGAIN!
     
  14. #34 geralduk, Dec 16, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
    On the one hand you say you do not reduce everything to being Born again .
    But you only return to that one subject.
    You did not choose either to be BORN again either
    For Jesus said you did not choose me but I chose you.
    For we are not born again by the will of man,the will of the flesh, the will of blood,but of God.
    ThAt too was not the be all and end all .nor was the day of Pentecost and the birth of the church.
    To be BORN is but the beginning.
    Be it into this life.or to be BORN again.
    No man has a home in heaven who is born of earth.
    If you are born of heaven you have a home in heaven.
    You do not have one in waiting .if you are not.
    If you think otherwise you will have to substantiate it with scripture.
    For my bible tells me were by NATURE children of wrath and disobedience before we were converted and we're then as all men. Predestined to corruption and death ,doomed to be damned, without hope and without God.

    In Christ
    Gerald
     
  15. Sighing as he waves goodbye......................
     
  16. Hopefully we will meet anon.

    In Christ
    Gerald
     
  17. Of that I am sure. I have read enough of your words to know that you believe in the Lord Jesus as your Saviour.

    However, as I leave you I would like to give you some advice which you are free to accept and apply or reject and continue on as you are. I have no sword to pull on you and I have not animosity toward you. You seem very sinceree although misguided in many areas.

    Gerald, speaking and defending the truth of God's Word are some of the most important responsibilities of the church, its leaders and, all believers. There are many who propagate error and there are a few who stand for doctrinal purity. But we must contend for the faith by the right method and with the right attitude. To this end, Paul provides some very clear instructions:

    We are to “avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife” as seen in 2 Timothy 2:23. This does not only apply to our relationship with those who are likeminded but especially, to those who are of a different persuasion. Obviously we do not have disputes with those who believe like we do but alas that is where we find you at. Usually the disputes we have are with those with whom we disagree. The context also makes it clear that this instruction applies when we relate to “those who are in opposition.” 2 Timothy 2:23 tells us that and with those who have been entrapped by the devil (v 26).

    Sometimes I think that many people who get into apologetic type ministries, which is the essence of forum works, do so simply because they love an argument. Even if that was not what got them into this kind of work, it seems to be what motivates them. Many just love the excitement of the scrap, and they get their kicks out of proving how right they are and how wrong others are. I know a few who will disagree with anything one says – just to pick an argument.
    (If you are irritated by these words you may well be one of these.)

    Others enjoy the fact that engaging in debate makes them feel intellectual, while others just must have the last word. Then there are those who just have to win every argument and who, like bulldogs, cannot release once their jaws have locked onto the prey.
    Now all of this is simply MY opinion however, if YOUR phone is ringing........ANSWER IT!!!!

    Paul is very specific: we are to avoid those arguments that lead to strife. Even as I write, I know someone is rushing to remind me that Paul refers to “foolish and ignorant disputes” and that arguments about the Truth cannot be “foolish and ignorant.” The fact is that it is the process of dispute or argument itself that is foolish and ignorant, not the subject. On several occasions, Paul warns Timothy not to argue over words and the Law but rather to concentrate on things that are edifying:

    1 Tim. 1:4...........
    "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."

    1 Tim. 4:7.............
    "But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness."

    Fell free to ignore all that I have said. But in all honesty I may be totally wrong on this and it may if fact be me who is at fault.
    All I know is that I can no longer continue with you in this way on conversing.

    May the Lord bless you and keep you in the palm of His loving hand.
     
  18. #38 geralduk, Dec 28, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
    Given the great misunderstanding of scripture as to the Bride of Christ , I fear the idea that for A peace sake this subject cannot be either brought up or actually discussed in the Spirit of Christ then the devil will have accomplished his purpose .
    For while he cannot stop someone being BORNagain though he has with many blinded their eyes so they may not believe and be saved .
    He has blinded many a child of Gods eyes to the high calling to which he is called .
    If it was thought that the devil cannot blind the eyes of Gods children you will have to square that with Paul praying for Christians in Ephesians that "the eyes of their understanding may be opened................"

    Because they who believe the truth of the rapture of the translation of the Bride BEFORE the outpouring of Gods wrath upon the earth they cannot be faulted . But as so many wrongly believe that the WHOLE church will be raptured then those who see and understand that after that event people and primarily the Jews will be saved or BORN again reject the first truth of WHEN . On the same grounds of the others error that to eb BORNagain is to be saved and enough to eb in the Bride of Christ .

    Thus both ends believe A truth but each will miss the rapture for different reasons .
    For they both believe the wrong message as to the nature and the character of the Bride .
    The first then will miss it because they will be like the 5 foolish virgins who will not be ready (though they think they are)
    and the second will not be ready because they think it at a time they think not.
    So if there be contention it is not because I wish it so or desire it ,But because the truth has been said by me and it is denied .
    To be BORN ..................................................................again .
    Does not qualify us to be in the Bride .
    It qualifies us to run the race .
    It gets us out of Egypt .
    It reconciles us to God .
    It adopts us as children
    makes us accepted in the beloved.
    we are blessed in Christ.
    The 5 foolish if you read it carefully were barred from the "MARRIAGE"
    The wicked the unrepentant sinner and the Godless are barred from the KINGDOM .
    The marriage of the Lamb and the Kingdom of God . Two very different things .
    To be BORNagain we are already born into the kingdom of Gods dear Son.
    and we will not be judged unto condemnation for we have passed from judgment to life.
    But we will be judged unto works whether they be of wood hay or stubble or of more lasting things
    Some will be saved" but suffer loss as through fire "
    Some with weeping but the lord will wipe their tears from their eyes .
    Some on the other hand will enter with rejoicing carrying there sheaths with them.


    in Christ
    gerald
     
  19. Your perception of what the race is ;is what makes you answer the way you have.
    Paul said I have run the race .and finished the course . He did not say or presume that he had won the prize .
    He clearly was already saved translated from the kingdom fo darkness to the kingdom of Gods dear Son.
    He has already as you have if you are His entered the kingdom of God and the kingdom of God is also in you .
    How then do you say it is the prize? and ares till striving to enter in?

    In Christ
    gerald
     
  20. I always battled with the idea of them experiencing God's wrath. This seems reasonable.
     
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