The poster stated these churches are around now. What churches are they?
As far as I know there are no major Christian churches in Akhisar in Turkey which is where Thyatira used to be.
Looking for the modern day names.
Revelation
- Thread starter MMurphy
- Start date
The poster stated these churches are around now. What churches are they?
As far as I know there are no major Christian churches in Akhisar in Turkey which is where Thyatira used to be.
Looking for the modern day names.
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
He meant the type of church mentioned in the letters to those churches is present.
Dave, like I said, one of the ways the Holy Spirit reveals to us the meaning of chapters 2&3 is chronological,
Ephesus - Pentecost - 100AD
Smyrna - 101AD -312Ad
Pergamos - 313Ad to 600AD +or-
Thyatira - 600AD +or- until today
Sardis - 1500AD +or- until today
Philadelphia - 1750AD +or- until today
Laodicean - Pentecost - today
As we can see, history records the first three churches have passed from the scene, history also records the last four are with us today, this is also authenticated in the Word by where the Holy Spirit placed His admonition, he that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.
Thyatira, the Catholic church, when the pope seized official rule of the church from the Emperor.
Sardis, the Protestant Reformation lead by Luther.
Philadelphia, the modern mission organization started by Carey.
Laodicean, the letter that is addressed to people and not a church in a town, the meaning of the word Laodicean is governed by peoples opinions, history has record and we see today many churches where Jesus is outside of the church Re 3:20 and it's the only church that Jesus has nothing good to commend them for, also the only church that makes Him so sick He will vomit them out of His mouth,
whereas the Philadelphian church is the only church that Jesus promises to be taken in the Rapture in contrast to individuals in the other three churches.
I highly suggest you, or any, to ask Father to put them in a Philadelphian church where not only will they be a part of the Rapture, but to also receive your/their full rewards and the benefits derived from walking in faith for all of Eternity.
Blessings,
Gene
It's all God's doing.
It is not God-breathed scripture.
Who knows that apart from God's perfect ordaining?
ALL scripture that is scripture is good.
Jesus certainly railed against the extra regulations and traditions that came with the rigid adherence to the Talmud, and the religious, self-righteous, obsessive-compulsive Torah adhering behaviour of the scribes and Pharisees.
No one can control the Church (Body of Christ0 but that we give Jesus Christ control of our lives, as our head. Now, there have been countless people who confuse the Body of Christ with their personal affiliation to a Christian religion, but historical Christianity is not what we should be following. We need to be following Jesus Christ and walking with Him in full relationship.
Dave,
If you have questions I will try to lead you to Scripture for answers, but it will have to be later because I'm only home to draw up some plans for the cabinets I'm building, so I must go back to work now.
Blessings,
Gene
If you have questions I will try to lead you to Scripture for answers, but it will have to be later because I'm only home to draw up some plans for the cabinets I'm building, so I must go back to work now.
Blessings,
Gene
MMurphy
Inactive
All I said was that John's Epistles seem to indicate a class of people rather than a particular person. I admit others refer to a particular person, but you said NONE of them reference a class of people, but indeed all the scriptures you cited that have the actual word "antichrist" at least reference a class and sometimes a class in league with a particular person.
I just want credit for what I said, that there is a class of people who John calls antichrists.
No scriptures that mention THE Antichrist, and they are limited---refers to people. Just one man.
MMurphy
Inactive
You just said that there are a people who are called "antichrists" (notwithstanding THE Antichrist).
Oh whatever, I give up. You'll like one of my posts someday.
MMurphy
Inactive
You just said that there are a people who are called "antichrists" (notwithstanding THE Antichrist).
Oh whatever, I give up. You'll like one of my posts someday.
Yes, there are countless people who have the antichrist spirit, but there will only be ONE Antichrist who will come to world power and acclaim and will be indwelt by Satan himself.
MMurphy
Inactive
I said I give up!
Who told you that?
Again who told you which is good and not good?
This is the problem. Which is correct?
These texts are no good and we should not think about them which is contrary to Timothy whom had the Apocrypha.
Or that these texts keep coming into our lives because God said we need to know of them?
So which one is really what God is in control of?
How do these other texts break the commands that God himself lives by?
Ahhhh.
It is accepted that the Apocrypha does not meet the standard of text that is inspired. Some of it contradicts scripture. Some of it has no reference to God at all. The Apocrypha contains a lot of historical, geographical, chronological, and moral errors.
God.
The Apocrypha was unacceptable as scripture even by Timothy---and as well by Jospehus, a secular historian. The Apocrypha teaches falsehoods, such as the pre-existence of the soul and prayer for the dead, and that we can atone for our sins through the giving of alms, as well as praising suicide as a noble act....many more idiotic ideas are perpetrated in the Apocrypha and a serious student of the word knows enough to avoid it.
He wants you to be confident in the truth of His word so that you will know a lie when you encounter it and have the strength to soundly reject it. Until you are in that place, you will find yourself going around this mulberry bush a few more times. Hopefully not too many. Sometimes God will simply abandon people to their folly, having had His Spirit quenched once too often.[/quote]
Have you actually read any books from the Apocrypha???? Allow me to give you some of the reason why it is not in the Bible.
Not one of the apocryphal books is written in the Hebrew language (the Old Testament was written in Hebrew). All Apocryphal books are in Greek, except one which is extant only in Latin.
None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration.
The apocryphal books were never acknowledged as sacred scriptures by the Jews, custodians of the Hebrew scriptures (the apocrypha was written prior to the New Testament). In fact, the Jewish people rejected and destroyed the apocrypha after the overthow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
The apocryphal books were not permitted among the sacred books during the first four centuries of the Christian church.
The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places.
The Apocrypha includes doctrines in variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.
The following verses are taken from the Apocrypha translation by Ronald Knox dated 1954:
Basis for the doctrine of purgatory: 2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.
Salvation by works: Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.
Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.
Magic:
Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.
Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):
Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.
It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation.
No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.
If these do not answer your questions then you my friend are on your own!
I agree![/QUOTE]
Amen!
The book of Daniel, Ezra and other passages are in Aramaic, not Hebrew.
The Jewish people also do not recognise the books of the New Testament. Should we throw those out too?
The Jewish canon was not made firm until 100-200 A.D. so they were not destroyed.
In the end this a schism issue between Catholics and Protestants. If you are on one side the Council Of Trent is firm, they are sacred. If you are the other, they are hooey.
But that is what MAN has chosen.
So which is it?
I stand with Timothy. ALL scripture is good for your education.
I asked you already IF you had read any of the books in the Apocrypha and I have not seen your answer or maybe I missed it.
If it were Scripture, we would expect it to be free of false doctrine, correct??? If you do indeed stand with Timothy, ooops, right there is an error my friend. Timothy did not write the book of Timothy....Paul wrote it TO timothy.
The Jews do not recognize the New Test. my brother because they rejected their Messiah the Lord Jesus Christ. They crucified Him, do you really think that they would they turn around and acknowledge Him as their Messiah??? Not really a well thought out comment there my friend.
Same with the "schism" between Catholic and Protestant. There is NO schism....just plain old disagreement over what the Bible says. Protestants do not place Mary above all other women for one thing.
Now is we just consider ONE of the books of the Apocrypha, Enoch we can very clearly see that it as well as all the others books included definitely have a FALSE DOCTRINE which is different than the what is contained in the Scriptures.
What we find instead is that false doctrine is one of the most prevalent themes in the book!
Taking just a quick look at the text of Enoch up through Chapter 59, you will be able to find the following false doctrines:
(Now do not take my word for these, YOU do the work to show yourself approved, a workman of God)
- 1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - Does not agree with scriptures.
- 1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross.
- 2:2-3 contradicst 2 Pet 3:3-7
- 5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures.
- 6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural. There is no Semjaza in the Bible!
- 6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible
- 8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women. No Azazel listed in Scripture.
- 8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either
- 10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.
- 10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.
- 10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.
- 10:15-11:2 Says that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.
- 13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.
- 14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures
- 15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants
- 17-18,21,23 Gives a very strange description of the earth & universe which is clearly not true. Also alludes to the ancient model of astronomy that held that there were 7 stars (the closest planets) which burned like the sun (they don't.)
- 19:3 Discredits all other prophecy about the consumation of the ages.
- 20 Lists strange angels not in scripture, and incorrectly assigns the roles of Michael (the warrior) and Gabriel (the messenger)
- 21:7-10 Seems to contradict Biblical descriptions of the present & final judgement places for the fallen angels
- 22 Contradicts the Biblical descriptions of past, present & future dwelling places for the righteous who die
- 32:2-6 Seems to imply the Garden of Eden was still in existance after the Flood
- 33:1-2 Says Heaven rests on a foundation that is at the Eastern edge of the earth
- 33:3 He claims he counted the stars & individually mapped them, which is impossible scripturally (& scientifically)
- 34 Says the winds come out of a "portal" at the Northern edge of the earth
- 36:3 Says the stars come out of portals at the Eastern edge of the earth & move West
- 38:5-6 Contradicts Daniel & other prophecies about the Mellinial Reign
- 39:1-2 Very strange implications here about the "seed" of angels dwelling with men at the end... this contradicts the scriptures
- 40:7 Talks about the "Satans" - plural, different than the Bible, who gives that name to only one fallen angel. Also, implies Satan can't stand in God's presence, contrary to Job.
- 40:9 Once again mixes up the roles of the 2 Archangels & adds more names in. Michael's role in scripture is related to conquoring nations & fighting spiritual wars, while Gabriel's relates to bringing messages & visions to people.
- 41:1-2 Says the Kingdom of God is divided - it's not & can't be scripturally. Also describes sinners being repelled from a mansion, which is also not scriptural, unless you look at a parable Jesus told, which was not intended to be literal.
- 41:4-5 Says the sun, moon, winds, etc. are stored in chambers & released at appointed times.
- 41:6-7 Implies the sun & moon move opposite of each other
- 43:1-3,44 Very weird model of the nature of stars & lightning
- 47:4 Says God requires the blood of the saints... very strange
- 51:1 Says Sheol & Hell will give back to the earth, which isn't scriptural - also Hell is a NT term, not OT
- 51:2 Disputes the Biblical doctrine that we are chosen. (We don't have to wait until Christ's return to be chosen.) This isn't scriptural.
- General: Seems to imply Enoch came back down to earth after being taken up to Heaven, which is not scriptural.
As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith. But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.