Revelation 9

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. Revelation 9:1:
    And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    This, by itself is a major topic in our day with the Liberal Christian (oxymoron) and the more fundamental Bible Believing Christian. To begin with, there has been a redefinition of Hell and with that, a great deal of coherent understanding is lost. To begin with, some of the early fathers of the Faith considered Hell to include Abraham´s Buxom, a.k.a. Paradise, to be in Hell producing the statement that Jesus spent His three days of death in Hell preaching to the Old Testament Saints. With my Submissive to the Holy Spirit Bible Study of the past 21+ years it has been made clear to me that Hell and Paradise, not Heaven, were never together. Yes, both are or were in the Spiritual Realm but as we see in Luke 16:26, there is a great space between the two.

    The whole problem begins with our attempts to relate the Spiritual Realm with our world when we cannot do that! In Matt. 27:52-53 we see that Jesus released the Saints, just after His death, and they poured through the streets of the Holy city, just moments after His death. And in the Bible we learn that a day in Heaven can be liken unto a thousand years here on earth showing that thee is no reference between earth and the Spirit Realm.

    The point of all this is that many, today, make the Bottomless Pit to be Hell and it is not, Hell is the waiting place until the Final Judgment.

    Revelation 9:2:
    And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

    This is a great matter to study. The eternal abode, it seems, has been connected to the time/space continuum of the earth.

    Revelation 9:3:
    And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    Revelation 9:4:
    And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    The 144,000 have been excepted of the punishing sting and possibly death of these vicious pests.

    Revelation 9:5:
    And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

    Revelation 9:6:
    And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    If there is any death, at all, from this it will be preferred to the suffering from the bite.

    Revelation 9:7:
    And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

    Revelation 9:8:
    And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

    Revelation 9:9:
    And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

    Revelation 9:10:
    And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

    This can be taken two ways. In class this past Sunday the popular view was that the one bitten would suffer the pain from a single bite for five months and my personal opinion (no specifics from the Holy Spirit) is that the plague of these will be for five months.

    Revelation 9:11:
    And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

    Revelation 9:12:
    One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

    The Futurist View, better known as the Liberalist´s View is that this passage and, for that matter, all of the Book of The Revelation is metaphorical. I, however, will never be found in that camp except the LORD change my mind. It is a pat rule of Hermeneutics that any scripture cannot be understood without the light of all other scripture shinning on it. Therefore it is required that you, by God, have read all of the Bible and that you use all of the other input from there to understand this or any other portion of scripture. With that accomplished, many times past, it becomes apparent to me when a part of a passage, chapter or book in metaphorical.

    The metaphorical view, as it was explained by the proponent of this view, in class Sunday, includes the king mentioned here to be the king over the people on the earth instead of, as the scripture, clearly states, the king over these evil and nasty Grass-hoppers. To go down this rabbit trail is to place one´s self over and above God! I am one of His, many, purchased slaves, of whom He has made His Children by adoption and will never, for even a moment, believe I can tell my Father anything.

    In summation, God has said what He has said and I believe there will be an evil infestation over the face of the earth that I desire no part with. And yes, the awful bottomless pit is a reality and is not metaphorical.

    Revelation 9:13:
    And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

    Revelation 9:14:
    Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

    Revelation 9:15:
    And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

    This portion, I also take for what is written and this, being factual, sets us up for the next fact.

    Revelation 9:16:
    And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

    Revelation 9:17:
    And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

    Revelation 9:18:
    By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

    Revelation 9:19:
    For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

    This is tricky! Verses 16 – 19 are a metaphor about a truth that is known to many and will be a terrible force when set into motion... and they stand, this day, ready to move! There is now a highway from China to the Euphrates River for China´s quarter of a million man Army to make this trip over now. Add to that the Haditha Dam is nine kilometers long and can dry the river for the crossing of the troops.

    Revelation 9:20:
    And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    Revelation 9:21:
    Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    No matter how you count it, one third or two thirds dead, there is a horrible slaughter taking place here. At the moment the world is just a few weeks short of passing the 6,000,000,000 population mark and each third, right now is two billion people! And the survivors still do not repent!
     
  2. I have been doing quite an intensive study (for me at least) on hell. I agree with what you say here. Hell is waiting place. It makes no sense to me that the devil be thrown into 'hell' for a thousand years when hell is currently his 'playground'.

    That is definately interesting. All who claim hell is under the earth can be forgiven in light of this verse.

    Would you say that ALL the tribulation saints would be excluded. By that I mean all those who get their heads chopped off and reject the mark of the beast? Or is my timing out. All those who gets their heads chopped off may be before this happens?

    Your reply answers the first section, but this? ''Death shall flee from them?'' I am confused.

    My only thought here is that it literally says '5 months'. Not approximately 5 months. Perhaps God only permits them to sting man for 5 months?

    I would just like to add here, that it makes more logical sense that God give John a revelation of a single point in time and of those events leading up to it and after it, rather then random events occurring at different 'periods of time' in our history.

    I was looking at this with my wife and we were rationalising how 6 billion people would disappear :).

    Imo, 6 billion - 1 billion raptured - 1 billion get their heads chopped off for rejecting the beast - 2 (1/3 of 6) billion perishing in Gods wrath of the trumpets and leaving 2 billion to die in armegeddon and nuclear war. It makes sense that nobody go on to live in the millenium as all on earth have accepted the mark of the beast, except babies, kids and mentally handicapped of course.
     
  3. "death shall flee from them" means that men will not be able to die, regardless of the injury sustained, they will miraculously heal so as to not be able to escape the terror of the times by death.

    "And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months."

    What these creatures/things are nobody knows, some have interpreted this as attack helicopters. You must remember that John saw these things as visions and did not have anyone to explain things for him, so a fleet of helicopters would appear (to John) much like a flock of locusts, and it would take about 5 months for a 50 cal. bullet wound to heal. I have no insight on this, just a guess.
     
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  5. :) I suppose for some, but all? Having chewed on it I bit I reckon that just like a prison with cameras can stop inmates from suicide, likewise having the mark of the beast may be a tracking device like the one used by parolees or perhaps many are physically detained and monitored.

    I agree with reasoning on John. But I 'assume' he should at least get the size of his description right. Like using a 'dragon' if he saw an Apache helicopter.
     
  6. :) I just made a prediction of 2014 in my fellowship meetings. With the all the immorality, natural disasters, war, prophecies being fulfilled and global recession, anyone! can be forgiven for predicting a wrong date in the last century after Israel was formed. But knowing we definately in the season and that God will shorten these days for the elects sake, 2014 sounds about right :) . How much worse can things get? I cant even let my kid watch a single movie on tv these days.

    Most of my elders would agree with your % expectations. I suppose I just have alot of wishful thinking for mankind :). I like to think that many will be saved because they have indirectly accepted Jesus. Like those sanctified in a household if one is saved, who may not necessarily say the sinners prayer but they do not kick the Christian out.
     
  7. Those are very much like what I wanted as a Young Christian at 45 years of age but the more I studied the more I understood the truth and stopped wishing and began evangelizing instead. The truth is that since Jesus went to the cross, things are different and while it does not say it in the passage with Peter and the Centurion all his family had to do exactly as he did. Today, our society is polluted with what we term Liberalism but in those days the entire family, so devoted themselves to the Master of the house that they would have, indeed, whole heartedly, followed his lead.
     
  8. I agree. The unsaved in the house could be ''putting up'' with the Christian because he pays more rent.
     
  9. Gave me a chuckle but yes.
     
  10. My friend...........reject 2014!

    Reject all date settings. We can KNOW the SEASON of Christ's return but not the date.
     
  11. Having seen UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL, an attack helicopter, useing all its arms and then sprayig out agent Orange from its tail, and other nerve agents as well in Nam, I can assure all of you that this is a perfect "picture/type" of something John saw.

    I am not saying dogmaticly that is the case.....just that I have seen this exact picture and years ago when I first read theses verses.......that is the the first thing I thought of.
     
  12. Not so my friend.

    We are saved INDIVIDUALLY not corportally.
     
  13. Bless your heart! I absolutely agree with the copter thing and it spraying nerve gas or something of that nature. BUT from what I have seen of what a 50 cal. round does......not much healing can be done there. If it hits an arm or leg......they are gone. Healing could happen in that way, but if anyone if hit in the body cavity...........see ya later!
     
  14. This has brought out some very thoughtful remarks, may God bless you all.
     
  15. The question from KingJ was..............
    "Would you say that ALL the tribulation saints would be excluded. By that I mean all those who get their heads chopped off and reject the mark of the beast? Or is my timing out. All those who gets their heads chopped off may be before this happens?"

    God will have mercy during the Trib. upon those who turn from their sins to trust in Christ and who do not take the MARK OF THE BEAST.

    The question then was............
    "My only thought here is that it literally says '5 months'. Not approximately 5 months. Perhaps God only permits them to sting man for 5 months?"

    I see no reason to think it is something other than what it says. IF we believe that God created the everything in 6 ...24 hour days, then believeing that this judgment will be exactly 5 months is then very literal IMO!.

    Then we have this..........
    "I would just like to add here, that it makes more logical sense that God give John a revelation of a single point in time and of those events leading up to it and after it, rather then random events occurring at different 'periods of time' in our history."

    We see accorsing to the Scripture of Rev. 9:12 that these "trumpet" woes come not all at once but one after another in time. The 1st WOE is actually included in 5th Trumpet judgement.
    That means that the 5th trumpet is filled with more horror than were the other 4 trumpet judgments, hence it is called a "WOE". Each set of 7 judgements include 1 WOE in them and each is more severe than the previous ones.

    Then we have one more comment I would like to speak to..............
    "I was looking at this with my wife and we were rationalising how 6 billion people would disappear :).

    Imo, 6 billion - 1 billion raptured - 1 billion get their heads chopped off for rejecting the beast - 2 (1/3 of 6) billion perishing in Gods wrath of the trumpets and leaving 2 billion to die in armegeddon and nuclear war. It makes sense that nobody go on to live in the millenium as all on earth have accepted the mark of the beast, except babies, kids and mentally handicapped of course".


    First of all, we can not assume how many people will be Raptured. We can not assume that all who say they are Christians are in fact Christians. Billy Graham was once asked what he thought the percentage of church members were who were actually saved. He said 25%. I think that is high myself.

    Then the comment was ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, " It makes sense that nobody go on to live in the millenium as all on earth have accepted the mark of the beast, except babies, kids and mentally handicapped of course".

    Of course that is incorrect with all due respect to my dear friend KingJ. Just as we do not know how many are really saved today, we do not know how many will accept Christ and refuse the mark of the beast during the tribulation but we do know that it will be substantial.

    Consider Rev. 20:6
    "Blessed and holy is he that hath no part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him for a thousand years".

    These are the redeemed because they are BLESSED. They are alive believers who survived the Tribulation. They will enter the 1000 year rule of Christ as living humans and will reproduce children and it is those children who will rebell in Rev. 20:8 after Satan has been loosened from his chains to temp them.
     
  16. The timing is a bit confusing for me. I currently see it like this. Three and a half years into the tribulation, the anti-christ has his free reign. During this and towards the end of it he will ensure that ALL accept his mark or die, ultimately by the guillotine. Which would mean that nobody who has rejected the mark would live on during the second half of the tribulation when the trumpets are blown.

    It just sounds logical to me that the anti-christ will 'round-up' everyone and make them choose. There are so many demons to each human and surely they will be able to freely roam the earth finding those hiding from the anti-christ, especially since The Holy Spirit and Christians are gone.

    Could these also not be the tribulations saints who died for rejecting the mark of the beast?

    I have always believed that the millenium is for all those that have not had an opportunity to be tempted by the devil. All the babies and mentally handicapped. Surely it is God's will for ALL to face the temptations of the devil and choose Christ over them. Or else why release the devil again as per Rev 20:8?
     
  17. The timing is a bit confusing for me. I currently see it like this. Three and a half years into the tribulation, the anti-christ has his free reign. During this and towards the end of it he will ensure that ALL accept his mark or die, ultimately by the guillotine. Which would mean that nobody who has rejected the mark would live on during the second half of the tribulation when the trumpets are blown. ............................................

    YES to the 3 1/2 into the Trib. the A/C will declare himself to be God from the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.

    NO to ALL receiving his mark or dieing.
    Zechariah 13:8 tells us that only 2/3 of Israel will be killed in the tribulation period. But does the prophet tell us that the remaining 1/3--the Remnant--is to be spared tribulation? No, but it tells us that they will be put through the fire prior to their salvation. And verse 1 tells us when they will be saved: "On that day..." What day? On the day that they see the One they have pierced (12:10).

    YES to the tempted during the 1000 year rule. The reason Satan is loosened is so that he can in fact temp the humans alive on the earth. The children of these humans will not have faced temptation so satan must be looseend to do just that. IT is those humans who when tempted fail and rebell at the battle of God and Magog.
     
  18. :) I am just speculating. Thanks for contribuiton Major.
     
  19. I understand my friend.

    I simply try and give out what I believe is correct Bible teaching for any of those reading.

    Thanks for speculating as it opens the door for fellowship, and good conversation which I enjoy with you!
     

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