Revelation 18

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. Revelation 18:1:
    And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
    Revelation 18:2:
    And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
    Revelation 18:3:
    For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    Another angel from heaven proclaims the fall of mystical Babylon. MHCC

    In chapter 17 we saw the righteous Judgment of the Great Whore that ¨sitteth on many waters¨ a.k.a. Many peoples and nations and here we find mystical Babylon going down with her. There are many faces of this proclamation for possible examination and not many of them should be dogmatically taught. This being said we must, however, never be willing to compromise what the text proclaims and we do see, here, that everything evil has manifested itself through Babylon and the nations of the world have embraced it. We see that the merchants have become rich because of her and merchants do not wax rich without the people participating. All of the earth has bought into mystery Babylon.

    Revelation 18:4:
    And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
    Revelation 18:5:
    For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
    Revelation 18:6:
    Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
    Revelation 18:7:
    How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
    Revelation 18:8:
    Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    A voice from heaven admonishes the people of God, lest they partake of her plagues. MHCC

    When we look at these passages it must always be remembered that John is recording events that will occur in the natural realm as they are affected by the Spiritual realm. John is seeing one angel speak when an unseen voice interjects. This is God calling all that will hear Him, He states ¨my people,¨ proving, to my satisfaction that it is Father God. In verse 5 we see that God has not been slumbering, no, God knows everything.

    Verse 6 requires prayer and care when considering the meaning of what is said. In verse 4 God is speaking to His people and the Rapture has already taken place, indicating that, without the presence of the Holy Spirit Some have Spiritually awakened and are seeking to follow God. And so it is that God say, ¨reward her even as she has rewarded you.¨ Remember that we learn that evil devils have filled Babylon with evil.

    Many have misused Matt. 7:1 by drawing it out of context to shut the mouth of the Christian to keep themselves from being judged righteously but the context makes a lie of that as does this passage where the future Christ Follower is called upon to judge evil. In verse 7 they are even called to rise up in rebellion, it appears to me, to prepare mystery Babylon for the soon falling righteous judgment of God, described in verse 8.

    Revelation 18:9:
    And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
    Revelation 18:10:
    Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
    Revelation 18:11:
    And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
    Revelation 18:12:
    The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
    Revelation 18:13:
    And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
    Revelation 18:14:
    And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
    Revelation 18:15:
    The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
    Revelation 18:16:
    And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
    Revelation 18:17:
    For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
    Revelation 18:18:
    And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
    Revelation 18:19:
    And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

    The lamentations over her. MHCC

    What we have here is a list that needs close scrutiny for if we are careful to consider, a good deal of what we enjoy partaking in today is going to be lost here. In verse 13 we learn that even the souls of men have been traded or sold. And I will tell you that such is being done right now! In my years of work I worked with Christians, Lost Men and men that had sold their souls to Satan for certain kinds of success. One such young man was so indwelt, or possessed, that he just reeked of evil. He laughed at all the wrong things, lied, stole, swindled and did all manor of evil... he was solod out to mystery Babylon, Satan!

    When God judges this world there will be a great change and I do not see many that will be willing to live without their ¨comforts¨ and live a simple but fulfilling life. No, it is very much as the Matthew Henry out line suggests, they will sorrow deeply.

    Revelation 18:20:
    Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
    Revelation 18:21:
    And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
    Revelation 18:22
    And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
    Revelation 18:23:
    And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
    Revelation 18:24:
    And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    The church called upon to rejoice in her utter ruin. MHCC

    This is, among men, a very controversial passage. My understanding, perhaps wrong, is that all the Christ Following Converts have been beheaded. In verse 21 we see a stone like a great millstone cast into the sea and in 22 we see the sound of the millstone, industry, will be heard no more. Then, in verse 23, it looks to me like like the Light and Power companies also fail. When we read the Genesis, the beginning, account, we were an agrarian people that had very, very little industry. It is my perception that the Earth will, under the reign of Jesus, by of that nature once more. We worship our autos, electric drills, TVs and even the computers, like the one I type this message on but I tell you we will have no need of the Internet then.
    KingJ likes this.
  2. Matthew Henry considers that the angel mentioned in Verse 1 might be the Christ. And well, maybe he is. However reading Verses 1, 2 and 3 together it becomes clear that this is a 'herald angel', possibly the one mentioned in 1 Thes 4:16. We are not told that he has a trumpet,but the rest of his ministry certainly suggests that he might.
    He is announcing:
    The fall of Babylon into a vortex of depravity from which Satan will not allow her to escape.
    Babylon is now host to, and prison for all manner of spiritual evil.
    The universal grasp on all the nations of the Earth that she now has as a result of this unprecedented surge of demonic infestation.
    However, there can be little doubt that the command 'Come out of her my people....' is the Divine summons, first to those saints sleeping, and then to those saints, remaining alive at that time. I believe that in Verse 4 we see heaven's perspective of the event foretold by Paul when he wrote his first letter to the Christians in Thessalonica. 1 Thes 4:16 Thus, we have here the event of the second coming of Christ revealed, when He comes to gather His own to Himself
  3. I am certainly no Matthew Henry, but IMO, (worth about .73) but I do agree with him. There are many more who believe that it is Christ as well.

    Certainly Babylon is the the well spring from which all the evil and religious deception has sprung from.

    Calvin..........if you are saying that verse 4 is a referreance to the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:16) I do not think that is the case my friend. Rev. 18 is almost the end of the 7 year Tribulation and I believe the verse you speek of in 1 Thess. 4:16 actually took place in Rev. 4:1 which is almost 7 years previousely. But again.....that is just me.

    IMO...the Rev. 18:4 passage .......the voice is the expression of the mind of God announcing to the people of God who have been saved during the Tribulation to come out of this hellish Babylonian system. No doubt in the very closing days and hours of time there will be true believers still involved in the systems of Babylon but now they must COME OUT! They must make a complete break if they are to escape the plagues that will be poured out upon this evil system. (vs 8).

    May the Lord bless all of us

  4. Matthew Henry says "This seems to be Christ himself, coming to destroy his enemies, and to shed abroad the light of his gospel through all nations." Ok, but we need to remember that we are told that "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." 1 Thess 4:16 . The archangel accompanying the Lord here might well be the 'another angel' as reported by John in 18:1. heralding the abysmal state of Babylon and the ending decreed for her.

    Being with the 'majority view' is not as important as seeking after truth is it not?

  5. I, like Major, am not a Matthew Henry, nor would I seek to be dogmatic about the identity of the angel in this case. I can see MH´s point because the Father would still be in Heaven but, like Major, I tend to believe this is not the Christ. I lean more in the direction of this being Michael, Gabriel or another of this class. One thing is certain though, on our arrival home, we will all know!
  6. Welcome back Bill.:)
    There seems to be a little confusion here.:confused::confused:
    Major is agreeing with MH that the angel is the Christ.
    I am of the opinion like you are, that this is an angel.. Could be an archangel such as Michael, or Gabriel as you suggest,
    or could be some other heraldic angel. The point is it is likely to be and angel announcing the state of Babylon and not the Lord....agreed!:cool: .
  7. Of course Calvin, that is true and it goes without saying. It was just a simple statement that did not mean that truth was in the majority. Truth is what God says it is and I think we both kown that.

    Calvin....Gabriel is not mentioned in the Scriptures as an "Arch angel".

    When I read the passage in question, I am not totally convinced that it is an angel who is present.

    "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God" ........seems to be saying that the voice of the Lord is as an arch angel.

    Just something else to consider my friend.........

    Joel 2:11.........
    " The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it?"

    John Gill comments......
    "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven,.... Not by proxy, or by representatives; not by the ministry of angels, as on Mount Sinai; nor by the ministers of the word, as under the Gospel dispensation; nor by his spirit, and the discovery of his love and grace, in which sense he descends in a spiritual manner, and visits his people; but in person, in his human nature, in soul and body; in like manner as he went up to heaven will he descend from thence, so as to be visible, to be seen and heard of all: he will come down from the third heaven, whither he was carried up, into which he was received, and where he is retained until the time of the restitution of all things, and from whence the saints expect him: and this descent will be."
  8. G'day Major, I was just welcoming Bill to the conversation; that's all. After all he is the thread starter.
  9. And as I stated, My opinion here is just that, nothing more than my opinion! We all know, from my posts where I prefer to stand as well as the truth thyat when we arrive Home, that God will correct all of us to align with Him. The only import here is that the Holy Spirit is not, at this time clarifying the point and that, all by itself, is an indicator we must learn from! Faith, individual faith is required and we can agree to disagree without damage to our collective faith.

    On being back, it´s been sick here for a bit lately but itś all good. That and one of my nephews has planted a new church and I have spent a good deal of the past week or so building Check it out and tell me what´s wrong.
  10. doesn't work for me.
  11. Me neither.

    I am glad to hear you are feeling better.
  12. OUCH!! Eaten up with digression!, sorry ´bout that.
  13. Thank you sir! Now if I can just connect the dots. At the bottom of the Home Page is a link to the Roman Road and how I like to employ it. The scripture links should pop up the text on hover and go to the Blue Letter Bible on click.
  14. Well Bill, that one works. Nice web site put together rather well in my opinion. I realize that the work is not yet complete.
    Pro observations would be that it is not cluttered in its presentation.
    The backdrop for the Baptistry is really creative. It helps take one back to the river Jordan.....10/10
    on the cons side, there is one link that is a fizzer. Under Bible studies 'Future' sags off into the 'never never' regions. Also the various study tabs seem to be sort of 'nested' instead of up front and visible.
    The only thing about that Church group I can learn from the web site is that they intend to practice 'believers baptism'. another 10/10 there. What I looked for and did not find though was an 'about us' page containing a purpose statement and statement of faith or beliefs, also what ministries are going to be provided? Things like Ladies (young Mum's), maybe seniors fellowship/study groups, Men's support, children's ministries and so on.
    Overall though a nice accomplishment......the criticisms.....well, you did ask:)
  15. Thanks and I´ve forwarded your comments to James for his and his congregation´s thoughts. Great critique.

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