Ahh yes the mark of the beast. Bank card....not likely. Bar codes of the type use on food items and other things....not likely*. sub dermal id chips and gps chips....not likely.
Something I find interesting is the command given the Israelites, see Deuteronomy 6:1-12 The placement of the laws and statutes and commandments is echoed in the placement of the mark of the beast, either on the hand or the forehead. The commands and promised blessings detailed in deut 6 also reflect an economic dimension, that is also found in Revelation 13
It seems that the mark of the beast might have a strong spiritual component... possibly a worshiping of the beast that will allow or hinder buying or selling.This is not without precedent as there was a period when a certificate of worship was required of citizens of Rome and its provinces.
This was under persecutions by Decius 249-251 AD. where a person had to show proof that they had offered sacrifices to idols and the wisdom of the Emperor, and eating food sacrificed to pagan gods. There were other persecutions at Lyons and elsewhere cf Documents of the Christian Church---Henry Bettenson.
These persecutions need not be seen as the literal fulfillment of Rev 13, but they do show a precedent for the blending of economic prosperity with satanic worship, just as there was a tie in deut.6 between worship of the Lord and material blessing.
* The character 6 used in most barcodes are timing markers for the barcode reader software to know where and when to start and stop reading. Not sure why the center marker is there, but it might be a check bit, as usually there are 5 characters before it and 5 after it.
If there is a read error, this center bit, and or the end bit can flag an error message. ...just a thought.
blessings,
calvin
Revelation 13
- Thread starter th1bill
- Start date
Here are a few things to consider about the "bar code".
Is the number 666 "hidden" in the UPC barcode?
from http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html One of the most popular and shocking accusations concerning the number "666" is that the number "666" is quietly "hidden" in every UPC barcode. Mary Stewart Relfe's book, "The New Money System 666", published in 1982, is the "pioneer" of the "666 in the UPC barcode" teaching. Relfe's book contains over 50 pages of excellant doumentation on the UPC barcodes. Relfe's discovery is repeated in many publications touching the mark of the beast, within the last fifteen years. Including tracts published by this author. Here's a few samples: Terry Cook, The Mark of the New World Order, 1996: ". . . the entire system [UPC barcode] is very deceptively designed around the infamous numerical configuration, Biblically known as 666, the mark of the Antichrist or devil (Revelation 13:16-18). . ." (Terry Cook, The Mark of the New World Order, 1996, p. 376) Bob Fraley, The Last Days in America, 1984: "The interpretation of the Universal Product Code marks is most revealing in that the three numbers '666' are the key working numbers for every designed Universal Product Code. Every group of Universal Product Code marks has in it three unidentified numbers. All three of these numbers are 6, making the use of the numbers '666' the key to using this identifying marking system. . . There is no deviation. Every Universal Product Code has three unidentified marks whose number equivalent '6' encoding it with the code number '666'. " (Bob Fraley, The Last Days in America, 1984, p. 225, 228) Is the number 666 TRUTHFULLY "hidden" in the UPC barcode? Technically, no it is not. Here's the "technical" truth. . . The number 6 and the three guard bars are NOT the same. They do "appear" to be identical, but they are different. The beginning and ending guard bars are "bar-space-bar" or "101". The middle guard bar is "space-bar-space-bar-space" or "01010". The number six is "1010000". Remember, technically a barcode number consists of seven units. The beginning and ending guard bars are only three units, and middle guard bar is only five units. So, technically, from a computer's perspective the number "666" is NOT in the UPC barcode. But. . . Look again. . . All three guard bars contain the pattern "bar-space-bar" or "101". There is only ONE number, in TWENTY numbers (remember right and left numbers have different patterns) that contains the "101" pattern and that number is the right code SIX. Not the number one, or two, or three, etc. - but ONLY the right code SIX. I do seem to remember something about a mark on the RIGHT hand (Rev. 13:16). Technically, from a computer's perspective the number "666" is NOT in the UPC barcode. . . but from a human's perspective - YES, the "appearance" of 666 is there! What does the inventor of the UPC barcode say about the number "666" in the UPC barcode? The inventor of the UPC barcode is George J. Laurer. In 1971, while Mr. Laurer was an employee with IBM, he was assigned the task "to design the best code and symbol suitable for the grocery industry". In 1973, Mr. Laurer's UPC barcode entered the world, and the rest is history. On Mr. Laurer's web site, he has a "Questions" page, where he answers various questions about the UPC barcode. On the "Questions" page, Mr. Laurer answers the "666" question, as follows: Question #8 - Rumor has it that the lines (left, middle, and right) that protrude below the U.P.C. code are the numbers 6,6,6... and that this is the international money code. I typed a code with all sixes and this seems to be true. At least they all resemble sixes. What's up with that? Answer- Yes, they do RESEMBLE the code for a six. An even parity 6 is: 1 module wide black bar 1 module wide white space 1 module wide black bar 4 module wide white space . Just something to think about.
Rev 13:18
There has been a lot of speculation about the 'mark of the beast'.
My question to all is this:
Is there nobody here with the required understanding to 'count' the number of the beast? What sayeth the scripture??
The number of the beast is the number of a man and his number (Note well; not the beast's number), is given as 666. Ok that leaves the actual number of the beast to be counted or reckoned.
Anybody here endowed with understanding like to reveal the beast's number?
Yet it could still be represented by 666, if we keep in mind that there was no 'indefinite article' in Hellenistic Greek.
Thus instead of an individual's number, 666 becomes the number of mankind in general. This is often understood as being short of the divine standard of 777.
So that would mean that the beast, who will claim divine status is in fact falling short of the divine count of 777.
Looking back to verse 17:
There are three things listed here:
1 The mark of the beast
2 The name of the beast
3 The number of the beast's name.
If all three are one and the same, can they really be correctly understood as 666 which is man's number? and if so does this just signify that those thus marked have thrown their lot in, voted for, the beast?
Would this signify that those with the seal of God in their foreheads will be understood as having been sealed with 777?
So you see, maybe I lack understanding, I just ask questions.
blessings,
calvin
I have a different take on the mark of the beast. I have done some study on the current interpretations and I am in no way saying they should be disregarded and tossed away. The possibility of bar codes and chips is a real possibility, but I think the actual mark is a more threatening senario, one we could already be carrying.
The Book of Revelation as we already know is a highly symbolic book and the problem when interpreting it is when do we take things literally and when do we interpret as a metaphor. The number 666 is already defined as the number of A man. The number representing all things Holy and good is seven. If I draw the number seven all over my body does that make me holy and good - no it does not. So in the same illustration if I have the number 666 on my body does that make me evil and a follower of the man of lawlessness? Ok keep that thought on the table while I discuss another issue linked to this.
The bible refers to the antichrist which John already describes as a spirit which was already in the world in the 1st century AD. The book od Daniel and Thessalonians refers to the man of lawlessness which sets himself up as God. I see the man of lawlessness as an actual person filled with the spirit of antichrist. So we have a dual nature - spiritual and physical. This man of lawlessness, the bible describes as a man who sets himself above God and sits in the holy place.
The mark of this man is 666 and it represents lawlessness - probably in all forms, from apostacy to corrupt business dealings. I often wonder if the mark of this man which people will carry will not be more symbolical in the work of their hands and the thoughts in their heads. If our works represent evil and our thoughts are filled with evil we will carry the mark of the man of lawlessness. If our hands are filled with the works of God and our thoughts filled with the Spirit of God then we will not conform to the world and will not be able to trade, buy and live godly lives without exposing ourselves as Christians opening ourselves up for persecution.
If somebody forces me to have 666, a barcode or microchip implanted on my body it will not change the fact that I am saved and a child of God, but if I change my thoughts towards evil and the result is evil deeds then I dont need any mark or chip to support the spirit of antichrist.
Just my intepretation.
The Book of Revelation as we already know is a highly symbolic book and the problem when interpreting it is when do we take things literally and when do we interpret as a metaphor. The number 666 is already defined as the number of A man. The number representing all things Holy and good is seven. If I draw the number seven all over my body does that make me holy and good - no it does not. So in the same illustration if I have the number 666 on my body does that make me evil and a follower of the man of lawlessness? Ok keep that thought on the table while I discuss another issue linked to this.
The bible refers to the antichrist which John already describes as a spirit which was already in the world in the 1st century AD. The book od Daniel and Thessalonians refers to the man of lawlessness which sets himself up as God. I see the man of lawlessness as an actual person filled with the spirit of antichrist. So we have a dual nature - spiritual and physical. This man of lawlessness, the bible describes as a man who sets himself above God and sits in the holy place.
The mark of this man is 666 and it represents lawlessness - probably in all forms, from apostacy to corrupt business dealings. I often wonder if the mark of this man which people will carry will not be more symbolical in the work of their hands and the thoughts in their heads. If our works represent evil and our thoughts are filled with evil we will carry the mark of the man of lawlessness. If our hands are filled with the works of God and our thoughts filled with the Spirit of God then we will not conform to the world and will not be able to trade, buy and live godly lives without exposing ourselves as Christians opening ourselves up for persecution.
If somebody forces me to have 666, a barcode or microchip implanted on my body it will not change the fact that I am saved and a child of God, but if I change my thoughts towards evil and the result is evil deeds then I dont need any mark or chip to support the spirit of antichrist.
Just my intepretation.
Rev 13:18
There has been a lot of speculation about the 'mark of the beast'.
My question to all is this:
Is there nobody here with the required understanding to 'count' the number of the beast? What sayeth the scripture??
The number of the beast is the number of a man and his number (Note well; not the beast's number), is given as 666. Ok that leaves the actual number of the beast to be counted or reckoned.
Anybody here endowed with understanding like to reveal the beast's number?
Yet it could still be represented by 666, if we keep in mind that there was no 'indefinite article' in Hellenistic Greek.
Thus instead of an individual's number, 666 becomes the number of mankind in general. This is often understood as being short of the divine standard of 777.
So that would mean that the beast, who will claim divine status is in fact falling short of the divine count of 777.
Looking back to verse 17:
There are three things listed here:
1 The mark of the beast
2 The name of the beast
3 The number of the beast's name.
If all three are one and the same, can they really be correctly understood as 666 which is man's number? and if so does this just signify that those thus marked have thrown their lot in, voted for, the beast?
Would this signify that those with the seal of God in their foreheads will be understood as having been sealed with 777?
So you see, maybe I lack understanding, I just ask questions.
blessings,
calvin
Asking questions is a mark of "philosophy".
Isn't asking questions what got Eve into trouble?
I don't see it that way Kevin, Calvin.
While I agree with the obvious, that a chip in us cannot be evil. I do see the mark of the beast as just that, a mark. Whether it be a chip or stamp, we will definitely know it as the beasts mark.
I see all left behind standing in long lines, queuing up for the guillotine. Just like when the guillotine was used in Napoleons day. I find it interesting that the bible specifically mentions the guillotine. Napoleon said it was the cheapest form of mass slaughter. The first few die quickly. Thereafter people suffer more and more with a blunt blade. It is also used for its immense psychological impact on those in the queue hearing the people in front suffering.
I don't see an executioner interested in what your hearts intention is. Also, with The Holy Spirit leaving with Jesus, the ''hearts intention'' will carry less weight with God. Exactly how it was for Jews in the OT. Adultery got you stoned to death, whether your heart felt remorse or not, was irrelevant, you did the deed, you die. Hence accepting a simple marking even with a loving heart, can get you into hell in the tribulation. Your ''loving'' heart would not truly be loving, but rather we will be deceiving ourselves, rejecting the mark will be the only 'loving God from the heart' deed that carries weight in that day.
Hence, because the bible says avoid all appearance of evil and that we will be judged on the light we have received. It is prudent for us to completely avoid getting any kind of mark on our arm and forehead.
While I agree with the obvious, that a chip in us cannot be evil. I do see the mark of the beast as just that, a mark. Whether it be a chip or stamp, we will definitely know it as the beasts mark.
I see all left behind standing in long lines, queuing up for the guillotine. Just like when the guillotine was used in Napoleons day. I find it interesting that the bible specifically mentions the guillotine. Napoleon said it was the cheapest form of mass slaughter. The first few die quickly. Thereafter people suffer more and more with a blunt blade. It is also used for its immense psychological impact on those in the queue hearing the people in front suffering.
I don't see an executioner interested in what your hearts intention is. Also, with The Holy Spirit leaving with Jesus, the ''hearts intention'' will carry less weight with God. Exactly how it was for Jews in the OT. Adultery got you stoned to death, whether your heart felt remorse or not, was irrelevant, you did the deed, you die. Hence accepting a simple marking even with a loving heart, can get you into hell in the tribulation. Your ''loving'' heart would not truly be loving, but rather we will be deceiving ourselves, rejecting the mark will be the only 'loving God from the heart' deed that carries weight in that day.
Hence, because the bible says avoid all appearance of evil and that we will be judged on the light we have received. It is prudent for us to completely avoid getting any kind of mark on our arm and forehead.
A thought worthy of consideration but i can´t buy into that. First and foremost is the leading of the Holy Spirit. The first concern here must always be Eph. 4:30 where we are taught not to grieve the Holy Spirit also nderstood and translatable as quince not the Holy Spirit.
Why is that a concern here? If we quince the Spirit we are open to, not possession but, influence from the spirits tossed out of Heaven with Lucifer when he became Satan. After better than twenty-one years of reading and rereading the scriptures I have learned that the Holy Spirit indwells, some will call it possesses, the saved but He can be ignored because of our free will.
So it is that I have learned not to snap at folks because their understanding, never interpretation, may differ a bit from mine, the reason being that though the Spirit never teaches one child of God anything that will disagree with what He has taught another. Their need might have been different but all teaching by the Spirit blends so closely as to see one teaching compliment the other. They never conflict and that is the noted problem with you presentation here.
Evil is indeed in the world since before Adam and your illustration of numbers all over one´s body is a mind diversion and that is the very thing propaganda does. That is one of the things people like Major and I had to teach our young soldiers and Butter Bar Officers.
Major, remember trying to get the Butter Bars past the first ninety days?
A thought worthy of consideration but i can´t buy into that. First and foremost is the leading of the Holy Spirit. The first concern here must always be Eph. 4:30 where we are taught not to grieve the Holy Spirit also nderstood and translatable as quince not the Holy Spirit.
Why is that a concern here? If we quince the Spirit we are open to, not possession but, influence from the spirits tossed out of Heaven with Lucifer when he became Satan. After better than twenty-one years of reading and rereading the scriptures I have learned that the Holy Spirit indwells, some will call it possesses, the saved but He can be ignored because of our free will.
So it is that I have learned not to snap at folks because their understanding, never interpretation, may differ a bit from mine, the reason being that though the Spirit never teaches one child of God anything that will disagree with what He has taught another. Their need might have been different but all teaching by the Spirit blends so closely as to see one teaching compliment the other. They never conflict and that is the noted problem with you presentation here.
Evil is indeed in the world since before Adam and your illustration of numbers all over one´s body is a mind diversion and that is the very thing propaganda does. That is one of the things people like Major and I had to teach our young soldiers and Butter Bar Officers.
Major, remember trying to get the Butter Bars past the first ninety days?
Like I said I am not tossing out the teaching on barcodes or actual numbers printed on people. I am just taking a symbolical approach to the interpretation. What if we are all waiting for this mysterious barcode to be set up and it never happens but through our actions and thoughts we actually start to follow the antichrist. A far more deceptive problem would arise. By the way, I am in no way quenching the Spirit - just because I have a different understanding does not mean I quench the Spirit. The 1st century church certainly did not even teach about physical marks or barcodes - so they had a completely different understanding of the text as we do today.
The reason I am taking this symbolical approach is that I have seen first hand what happens to people when they are persecuted and suffer from starvation - they do anything to survive which normally means they turn to evil ways of trading and obtaining food. I have seen people in my country murdered for a plate of food. The problem with bible interpretation is that the Western World interprets it different to the third world - simply because their point of view is different. I think as Christians we need to understand these differences and learn from each other. I am certainly not possesed by evil spirits just because I put through a different understanding on scripture. The idea of barcodes and chip only became popular in Christian teaching recently when the technology became available - I fail to understand why some adhere so aggresively towards this teaching as it is not supported anywhere else in the Bible. In fact the "mark of the beast" is only mentioned in Revelation which means it has many different possible meanings, especially in a book where the genre is prodominantly metaphorical and symbolical.
I have no idea what your "butter bar" analogy means as I come from South Africa and cannot relate to it at all.
I certianly dont want to debate the meanings in the book of Revelation because there are many, many interpretations held by the modern church. Most top theologians discuss only main interpretations, and many hesitate to give any interpretation because they know that it only leads to division and conflict.
A thought worthy of consideration but i can´t buy into that. First and foremost is the leading of the Holy Spirit. The first concern here must always be Eph. 4:30 where we are taught not to grieve the Holy Spirit also nderstood and translatable as quince not the Holy Spirit.
Why is that a concern here? If we quince the Spirit we are open to, not possession but, influence from the spirits tossed out of Heaven with Lucifer when he became Satan. After better than twenty-one years of reading and rereading the scriptures I have learned that the Holy Spirit indwells, some will call it possesses, the saved but He can be ignored because of our free will.
So it is that I have learned not to snap at folks because their understanding, never interpretation, may differ a bit from mine, the reason being that though the Spirit never teaches one child of God anything that will disagree with what He has taught another. Their need might have been different but all teaching by the Spirit blends so closely as to see one teaching compliment the other. They never conflict and that is the noted problem with you presentation here.
Evil is indeed in the world since before Adam and your illustration of numbers all over one´s body is a mind diversion and that is the very thing propaganda does. That is one of the things people like Major and I had to teach our young soldiers and Butter Bar Officers.
Major, remember trying to get the Butter Bars past the first ninety days?
Like I said I am not tossing out the teaching on barcodes or actual numbers printed on people. I am just taking a symbolical approach to the interpretation. What if we are all waiting for this mysterious barcode to be set up and it never happens but through our actions and thoughts we actually start to follow the antichrist. A far more deceptive problem would arise. By the way, I am in no way quenching the Spirit - just because I have a different understanding does not mean I quench the Spirit. The 1st century church certainly did not even teach about physical marks or barcodes - so they had a completely different understanding of the text as we do today.
The reason I am taking this symbolical approach is that I have seen first hand what happens to people when they are persecuted and suffer from starvation - they do anything to survive which normally means they turn to evil ways of trading and obtaining food. I have seen people in my country murdered for a plate of food. The problem with bible interpretation is that the Western World interprets it different to the third world - simply because their point of view is different. I think as Christians we need to understand these differences and learn from each other. I am certainly not possesed by evil spirits just because I put through a different understanding on scripture. The idea of barcodes and chip only became popular in Christian teaching recently when the technology became available - I fail to understand why some adhere so aggresively towards this teaching as it is not supported anywhere else in the Bible. In fact the "mark of the beast" is only mentioned in Revelation which means it has many different possible meanings, especially in a book where the genre is prodominantly metaphorical and symbolical.
I have no idea what your "butter bar" analogy means as I come from South Africa and cannot relate to it at all.
I certianly dont want to debate the meanings in the book of Revelation because there are many, many interpretations held by the modern church. Most top theologians discuss only main interpretations, and many hesitate to give any interpretation because they know that it only leads to division and conflict.
Yep! That is what I believe as well because it fits the Scripture extremely welland it is very logical and believable.
We can see the process today in its early stages if we have eyes to see.
A thought worthy of consideration but i can´t buy into that. First and foremost is the leading of the Holy Spirit. The first concern here must always be Eph. 4:30 where we are taught not to grieve the Holy Spirit also nderstood and translatable as quince not the Holy Spirit.
Why is that a concern here? If we quince the Spirit we are open to, not possession but, influence from the spirits tossed out of Heaven with Lucifer when he became Satan. After better than twenty-one years of reading and rereading the scriptures I have learned that the Holy Spirit indwells, some will call it possesses, the saved but He can be ignored because of our free will.
So it is that I have learned not to snap at folks because their understanding, never interpretation, may differ a bit from mine, the reason being that though the Spirit never teaches one child of God anything that will disagree with what He has taught another. Their need might have been different but all teaching by the Spirit blends so closely as to see one teaching compliment the other. They never conflict and that is the noted problem with you presentation here.
Evil is indeed in the world since before Adam and your illustration of numbers all over one´s body is a mind diversion and that is the very thing propaganda does. That is one of the things people like Major and I had to teach our young soldiers and Butter Bar Officers.
Major, remember trying to get the Butter Bars past the first ninety days?
YES! What was their life expectancy in a fire fight..........about 5 minutes or something like that???
A thought worthy of consideration but i can´t buy into that. First and foremost is the leading of the Holy Spirit. The first concern here must always be Eph. 4:30 where we are taught not to grieve the Holy Spirit also nderstood and translatable as quince not the Holy Spirit.
Why is that a concern here? If we quince the Spirit we are open to, not possession but, influence from the spirits tossed out of Heaven with Lucifer when he became Satan. After better than twenty-one years of reading and rereading the scriptures I have learned that the Holy Spirit indwells, some will call it possesses, the saved but He can be ignored because of our free will.
So it is that I have learned not to snap at folks because their understanding, never interpretation, may differ a bit from mine, the reason being that though the Spirit never teaches one child of God anything that will disagree with what He has taught another. Their need might have been different but all teaching by the Spirit blends so closely as to see one teaching compliment the other. They never conflict and that is the noted problem with you presentation here.
Evil is indeed in the world since before Adam and your illustration of numbers all over one´s body is a mind diversion and that is the very thing propaganda does. That is one of the things people like Major and I had to teach our young soldiers and Butter Bar Officers.
Major, remember trying to get the Butter Bars past the first ninety days?
YES! What was their life expectancy in a fire fight..........about 5 minutes or something like that???
A thought worthy of consideration but i can´t buy into that. First and foremost is the leading of the Holy Spirit. The first concern here must always be Eph. 4:30 where we are taught not to grieve the Holy Spirit also nderstood and translatable as quince not the Holy Spirit.
Why is that a concern here? If we quince the Spirit we are open to, not possession but, influence from the spirits tossed out of Heaven with Lucifer when he became Satan. After better than twenty-one years of reading and rereading the scriptures I have learned that the Holy Spirit indwells, some will call it possesses, the saved but He can be ignored because of our free will.
So it is that I have learned not to snap at folks because their understanding, never interpretation, may differ a bit from mine, the reason being that though the Spirit never teaches one child of God anything that will disagree with what He has taught another. Their need might have been different but all teaching by the Spirit blends so closely as to see one teaching compliment the other. They never conflict and that is the noted problem with you presentation here.
Evil is indeed in the world since before Adam and your illustration of numbers all over one´s body is a mind diversion and that is the very thing propaganda does. That is one of the things people like Major and I had to teach our young soldiers and Butter Bar Officers.
Major, remember trying to get the Butter Bars past the first ninety days?
Kevin...........A "Butter Bar" ia slang used in Vietnam War to ID a Second Leutinant, because of the single gold bar rank insignia.
YES! What was their life expectancy in a fire fight..........about 5 minutes or something like that???
I apologize for the size of the text. It was from the website and once I realized its size it was too late to change it.
Kevin, IMO the reason why the teaching of the Bar Code has become so popular is that it seems to fit the Scriptures description of how the A/C can and will be able to TRACK those people who refuse to worship him.
The BAR CODE system that is in place right now is the perfect answer as it allows companies to TRACK their inventory just as the A/C will be able to TRACK people.
Now I have no idea whether the UPC Bar Code is the method by which the A/C will use to mark his believers...but IMO it does seem like it might be possible. That is all I am saying and I think that is what most understand it to be.
Like I said I am not denigrating the barcode theory - I am just saying we should not be so stuck on a literal interpretation. In the US the barcode theory or chip theory is a well taught theory but here in SA it is not the case. In fact few churches actually preach about it at all. Maybe they just have other problems to deal with. Anyway time will tell - one interpretation from Revelation I think we will all agree upon is that we are all called on to persevere through whatever trial(s) come our way and to live holy lives, because we will all recieve a glorious welcome by our Saviour in the end, chip or no chip.
Yes Major,
On the ground five minutes and in the air three point five! Of course, in the air three point five was for all on board from the time of take off. And people wonder why I used to council my new Crewchiefs to quit before they got killed! Like me, though, none of the fools did, the pilots neither!
Kevin,
I was not meaning to demean you but rather, like yourself, putting information worthy of thought. Now, to expound. Jesus taught us we were to hate our own lives to the point of death, leaving me to question the faith of those that turn for a plate of food. There is a great deal more to faith than just saying you believe.
A very pertinent example would be the men in my outfit. Every man in my unit knew that because we had discarded the only life saver in the rules of engagement that the moment we crawled into those aluminum cans with over-sized props on top of them that we were dead meat with a life expectancy of 3 minutes and 30 seconds. Because we did that, disregard the rule saying we did not have to land in the middle of a firefight, we were often called into action when everyone else had refused to assist and we lost 3.5 men every week of the war. My pilots were nuts and my gunner and I were insane to let two nineteen year old, just graduated, pilots fly us into that mess, but we did. Death by starvation is no more certain than being a Killer Spade.
Faith in Jesus is not a practice, it is an entire life style. We have a Third World Country on our southern border here in Texas and the Pan-Am Highway gives us and them transport either way. Add my time in the military in Vietnam to my experience in this region and I certainly do know something about the situation.
Sorry if I got your dander up.
On the ground five minutes and in the air three point five! Of course, in the air three point five was for all on board from the time of take off. And people wonder why I used to council my new Crewchiefs to quit before they got killed! Like me, though, none of the fools did, the pilots neither!
Kevin,
I was not meaning to demean you but rather, like yourself, putting information worthy of thought. Now, to expound. Jesus taught us we were to hate our own lives to the point of death, leaving me to question the faith of those that turn for a plate of food. There is a great deal more to faith than just saying you believe.
A very pertinent example would be the men in my outfit. Every man in my unit knew that because we had discarded the only life saver in the rules of engagement that the moment we crawled into those aluminum cans with over-sized props on top of them that we were dead meat with a life expectancy of 3 minutes and 30 seconds. Because we did that, disregard the rule saying we did not have to land in the middle of a firefight, we were often called into action when everyone else had refused to assist and we lost 3.5 men every week of the war. My pilots were nuts and my gunner and I were insane to let two nineteen year old, just graduated, pilots fly us into that mess, but we did. Death by starvation is no more certain than being a Killer Spade.
Faith in Jesus is not a practice, it is an entire life style. We have a Third World Country on our southern border here in Texas and the Pan-Am Highway gives us and them transport either way. Add my time in the military in Vietnam to my experience in this region and I certainly do know something about the situation.
Sorry if I got your dander up.