Restored Jewish people

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Kevin, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Restored Jewish people

    I have recently been studying about the second coming of Jesus Christ and the signs preceding His coming.

    The college mentioned all the usual things like, persecution will increase, evil will increase, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit will increase, there will be wars, famine plagues etc.

    One thing they mentioned was a full scale turn of Jewish people to Jesus before His second coming.

    This I have never heard of before but they mentioned the scriptures to back it up.

    The timeline goes something like this. The gospel of salvation was originally meant to be taught to the Jews, the whole OT is about the Jews. The Jesus went to the Jews, He was born a Jew. The gospel was first preached to the Jews but they rejected it. Because they rejected it, it was then preached to the gentiles. So because the Jews rejected the gospel the Gentiles where saved. When the time of the gentiles is fulfilled then the gospel will be preached back to the Jews and many of them will convert to Christ and only then will Jesus return.

    Any comments on this?

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    (Act 9:20) And immediately he proclaimed Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
    (Act 9:21) But all who heard him were amazed and said, Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem and came here for that reason, that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?
    (Act 9:22) But Saul increased the more in strength and confounded the Jews who lived at Damascus, proving that this One is the Christ.

    Mat 21:43 Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing out its fruits.

    Act 18:6 And they resisting and blaspheming, shaking his garment, he said to them, Your blood is on your own heads. I am pure from it. From now on I will go to the nations.

    Rom 11:11 I say then, Did they not stumble that they fall? Let it not be! But by their slipping away came salvation to the nations, to provoke them to jealousy.
    Rom 11:12 But if their slipping away is the riches of the world, and their default is the riches of the nations, how much more their fullness?

    Rom 11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in.
    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

    (Mat 23:37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!
    (Mat 23:38) Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
    (Mat 23:39) For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

     
  2. Kevin my brother: read this:

    21And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

    22And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
    23(As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
    24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
    25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
    26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
    27And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
    28Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
    29Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
    30For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
    31Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
    32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
    33And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
    34And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
    35(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
    36And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
    37And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

    Jesus is the Greek word for Yeshua; meaning SALVATION....Yes, Jesus was Jewish; born of the seed of Abraham. The Jewish Messiah; to the Jew first and then the gentiles. The JEWS were evangelizing the Gentiles!!! and the gentiles became true disciples of Jesus after hearing the gospel.

    Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord is and will be Israels' recognition of Her Messiah and a heart cry of gentiles who are awaiting the second coming of our Lord in Glory.
    Baruch Haba Bashem Adonai (in Hebrew)
    pronounced Ba-rook...ha ba Ba shem A doe neye

    What you are beginning to understand is what the Messianic Judaism has been created to do; bring the Jewish rooted understanding back to the church. Jesus is Messiah and Lord and Savior but the cultural Jewishness remains to remind us that we (gentiles) were grafted into the original olive branch.

    Romans 11
    13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
    18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
    24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
    25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

    :israel:
     
  3. God has not forgotten Israel. :)
     
  4. Here's a bit of the Gosple from the OT, Gen 12:
    1The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.
    2 "I will make you into a great nation
    and I will bless you;
    I will make your name great,
    and you will be a blessing.

    3 I will bless those who bless you,
    and whoever curses you I will curse;
    and all peoples on earth
    will be blessed through you."

    The Gospel was originally for all people. All men, since the Fall, have needed the Savior.

    Many Christians lift out of context Rom 11:26, "And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, 'There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.'" as if God has a special plan just for the Jews. Continue to Rom 11:31 "So they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." See, God is not saying there is something special for Israel, only that they, like all men have been given over to disobedience so that God can have mercy on them. Paul isn't saying Jews (actually, Paul says "Israel" not Jews - different meanings) are special, but that they're not different! That deliverer from Zion is Jesus, and he came to save us all, not just Jews.

    The Church is the restored Israel.
     
  5. I honestly don't know what will happen to the Jewish nation because I don't see a whole lot that clearly says what will happen to them. I see that it is clear that God's promise isn't passed by blood and we are the new Jewish nation by adoption. The gospel was offered first to the Jews, but they rejected it (or many of them did). I believe that the number of people saved will increase in the end days, but can't say that it will be Jews being saved.
     
  6. Red emphasis mine.:)

    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
    Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
     
  7. I have to agree with Vex on most of what he said. God's plan of salvation was intended for the whole world. He just chose to bring that plan (the cross) into legal existance through the family of Abraham. At the time of the cross, God brought into being the prophesied New Covenant to replace the old one - it is a better covenant in Christ. He couldn't do it until the great sacrifice had been made which was in April 29AD. He did this through the blood of the once-and-for-all sacrifice of Jesus. This new covenant was made between Jesus the Son and God the Father. The old covenants (7?) were made with other men like Adam, Abraham, David, and Moses. The only covenant in force today that is recognized by God is the New Covenant. This is the everlasting covenant. This covenant is open to the Jews and anyone else of our day also.

    Matthew 26:28 (KJV)
    For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Mark 14:24 (KJV)
    And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

    Luke 22:20 (KJV)
    Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

    The New Covenant was first for the Jews because they were the carriers of the promises of God, (Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treads out the corn) but it soon became evident through Peter and his sheet vision that the Good News was about to be released to the gentiles also. Because the Jews were the people God worked through, they had the honor of drinking from the well first - and rightly so.

    So common sense will tell you that the gentiles would become the Church due to the sheer numbers of all the nations of the world compared to the single nation of Israel - but they would forever hold the honor of being the chosen people of God who brought forth the Messiah to the whole world. And what an honor it is both now and forever. The Bible will always be a Jewish book dispite how we have denuded it of a lot of its Jewishness.

    The Jews brought forth the New Covenant and it is still open to them today - they have lost NOTHING. Are they Gods chosen people? Well they were under the Old Covenant, but under the new - chosen to do what? God's chosen people under the New Coveanant are those who do the will of God - those who have the faith of Abraham in fact.

    Matthew 12:46-50 (KJV)
    While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. [47] Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. [48] But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? [49] And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


    Now granted he was speaking exclusively to the Jews of his day, but would I be wrong to say that "whosoever" really means whosoever?

    Whosoever does the will of the father is God's chosen people - including the Jews who likewise do so. Being chosen has nothibng to do with bloodlines, but rather faith.

    Larry II
     
  8. I have to say Larry I agree with what you posted and yet I cannot see how that negates God's promise concerning the Jews.
     
  9. Your assessment is more than fair.

    I'd just will add that no Jews will be saved because there are no Jews to be saved. Who in the state of Israel can pull out a genealogy list tracing his ancestors back to Abraham? God put an end to that old way with the destruction of the Temple.

    To today's Jews themselves, it really doesn't matter if someone is an actual ancestor of Abraham (even then, the question is "what percent vs. the percent of everyone else?"). If someone who claims to be a Jew isn't a blood ancestor, then he's a spiritual ancestor - so it doesn't matter that they don't know one from the other. But, for Christians who idolatrize Jews, it's a real problem, if they would ever stop to think. You can't convert to a different race, yet the history of Judaism is full of conversions and mixing. All the way back to patriarch's wives.

    The belief that a "Spiritual Jew" is anything other than a Christian is undeniably blasphemy for a Christian. So, some Christians must pretend that a Jew is a blood ancestor of Abraham.

    If God meant that for his promise to be for the all the blood children of Abraham, that would include Arabs. God's trying to show something here (and Paul spells it out), yet those same Christians who accept the fiction of Jews reject Arabs as Abraham's children for no reason at all (or apparently, if you're a "wild man" then God revokes his promise to you).
     
  10. You may have forgotten this about Abraham's kids-
    In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    So it is definitely not talking about the children of Ishmael although they too can be saved.:)

    Nonetheless you would have to ignore the scripture I posted previously to come to your conclusion.
    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
    Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


    There can be no mistaking the fact that God is talking an about the Jewish people here as He makes clear distinction between them and the rest of humanity (the Gentiles).Besides I am quite sure the Lord knows who they are.
     
  11. Also I believe your definition of blasphemy is confused.
     
  12. You're missing the forest for the trees.
     
  13. You are entitled to your opinion but you seem to have an animosity that is blinding your heart. I will pray for you, have a great day.BL
     
  14. A tiny fraction of 1% of the Jews of Israel are Christian, according to that article. I wouldn't expect demographics like that except in the most anti-Christian regimes in the world. Most Arab countries have more Christians than that, in spite of not being the world's favorite destination for traveling Christian Americans. The Israeli territory was 20% Christian before Israel took over.

    And, indeed, the Israeli government is militantly anti-Christian. Persecution of Christ paid for by American Christians.

    The article fails to mention that according to the Israeli government and other jewish authorities, a Jew is not Christian. Messianic Jews are no longer Jews. The article describes them as what is judaized Christians.
     
  15. You said, "You may have forgotten this about Abraham's kids-"

    Abraham's kids were the subject of my statements!
     
  16. This was all really very interesting. Did I read right that Abraham's children became the Arabs? So, when did the Jews start to be called Jews? I guess just like any country, if you came from Africa, you are an African. But, where, exactly did the Jews come from? This may be too complicated to explain. Is there some study on this subject that I could just read? I really have little understanding on the lineage of Christ and need to make a study of it I guess. I hate not understanding a post.
     
  17. Abraham had 2 sons. One was the work of his flesh trying to fulfill God;s promise- this was Ishmael. The other (Issac) came only when it was beyond the strength of Abraham and Sarah to perform it. Issac was the choice of God to fulfill His promise.
     
  18. Now I remember. Abraham laid with his wife's hand maiden against God's will and so Ishmael became the Arab people? Because Issac would have become the Jewish people? Was Sarah Abraham's wife and they were promised a child in her old age, but didn't wait long enough for that to happen? I'm so embarrassed that I don't remember this story!
     
  19. So if there has to be a major conversion of the Jews to belief in Jesus as their Messiah, then we are far away from Christs second coming unless a major event or miracle happens which awakens the Jewish nation.
     

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