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Research On Ot Slavery Is Done!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Brian J. Rivera, Jul 28, 2014.


Is slavery ever an acceptable practice

  1. NO, enslaving someone else is never acceptable

  2. Yes, enslaving someone else can be considered acceptable given exigent circumstances

    0 vote(s)
  3. Yes it can but society should always look to remove it when it is no longer acceptable.

    0 vote(s)
  4. Other

  1. Part 1 https://docs.google.com/document/d/...dvEL_hV0L5feAbugA/edit#heading=h.kuuv7r5i1em3

    Part 2 https://docs.google.com/document/d/12vYZPo9LUSW7mXJpKUb0vfwHSbUNp_tkufy8vTO9YKg/edit#

    Just so everyone knows I'm looking for a little bit more than a "good job". Hit me up with some philosophical ideas or bible verses that I might have missed. This was a real doozy and very difficult. Also feel free to ask anything you want about it. I would like to point out the star verse of this research which is Job 31.15

    If I have rejected the cause of my male or female slaves[‘amah],

    when they brought a complaint against me;

    14 what then shall I do when God rises up?

    When he makes inquiry, what shall I answer him?

    15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?

    And did not one fashion us in the womb?
    KingJ likes this.
  2. Intro

    It is often said that the bible supports slavery as a wonderful institution. Some also make the claim that the bible said unicorns were real. Even fewer people state that jesus was a mushroom. What all three of these statements have in common is that they’re all false. Another fact is that the bible does not explicitly say “SLAVERY IS A VERY MORALLY PERFECT AND SHOULD BE PROMOTED”. Rather the bible simply has rules for those that do have slaves. In a way it is kind of like getting a divorce. Divorce is not god ordained, but there are rules for it.

    Hebrew words used
    *first educate yourselves with the original hebrew words.(scroll to bottom under words)


    Types of Hebrew Slavery
    *This is a note for all of the ignoramuses that think there is only one form of slavery. Please allow me to quickly debunk that for you with a hypothetical example. Slavery A says it’s okay to rape slaves, but slavery B says it’s not okay to rape slaves. Here’s another example Slavery C is based on race, but slavery D is not based on race. If you still cannot understand this...well stop reading because this is definitely above your reading level.

    1. Voluntary servitude by the sons of Israel (indentured servants)
    Deuteronomy 15.12: “If a member of your community, whether a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, is sold[a] to you and works for you six years, in the seventh year you shall set that person free.” They were also blessed by god for their services.

    *This is probably the most common form of slavery. It most likely was a way for the poor to get a better chance at life. They were not sent out without any wealth and would be let go after the seventh year. [OAB:NRSV, p.275] Mentions that this law actually improves the older law in a few ways: it applies to both genders and the master must grant the slave a gift. Female slaves may have been sold the same way before this law though.(since laws are generally written after practice) For example [Shiphchah] female hand maid (which oddly enough has more of a sexual connotative and denotative meaning) was used by Abraham’s wife as a maid.(the relationship was most likely platonic) It’s hard to tell if this relationship was more for foreign or local servants.

    1. Voluntary permanent slaves
    Exodus 21.2-6: 2 When you buy a male Hebrew slave[‘ereb], he shall serve six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave declares, “I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person,” 6 then his master shall bring him before God.[a] He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

    *In this case it is the servants choice to remain in his master’s household. Some may say that the master is holding the servant hostage, but this is not necessarily true. It is clear that the servant already has financial issues and if he was sent out with his family they would probably not have enough money. There is also the issue that perhaps the female servant still had debt to the master. Another problem is the issue of whether or not the wife is the masters daughter. Regardless this is a form of indentured servitude that most people agree with

    1. Thief or criminal making restitution
    Exodus 22:1-3“When someone steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, the thief shall pay five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.[b] The thief shall make restitution, but if unable to do so, shall be sold for the theft. “

    *ever see chain gangs working on the highway. Ya it’s a lot better than having them waste all of our tax dollars and watching TV all day.

    1. Foreigners could be permanent slaves

    Leviticus 25:44-46As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.

    *Some will argue that this means slaves may be beaten, but it is unlikely. The whole context of this deals with time. (How long slaves can be owned.) As you will see later on the “harshness” is really not that bad. Lastly this is not a command saying BUY SLAVES, but rather just rules for buying slaves.

    5. Prisoners of war were kept as slaves

    Deuteronomy 20.10-11- When you draw near to a town to fight against it, offer it terms of peace. 11 If it accepts your terms of peace and surrenders to you, then all the people in it shall serve you at forced labor.

    *DO NOT ! DO NOT! CHANGE THIS INTO A DEBATE ABOUT THE WAR WITH CANAAN! that’s in another article. Also the fact that terms of peace are being offered probably shows some care for the local populace. Notice in the next section that even after besieging all of the women and children are kept alive.Also let us note that the Gibeonites deceived Israel into making a covenant with them by pretending to be another nation. What did the Israelites punish them with drawing water and chopping wood for the congregation and the altar of the lord.[Desiring God] Ya it sounds like they’re going to literally fall over from thirst. Even if I do through the atheist a bone and say “ya the war wasn’t just” taking survivors is still better than killing them.No more on this.

    6. Female slaves could be sold as wives, but they could also be sold as regular indentured servants 1..

    Exodus 21.7-117 When a man sells his daughter as a slave[amah], she shall not go out as the male[ebed] slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife.[b]11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

    * Just a quick note the word please[ra`] does not necessarily mean sexually. For example I do not find this room to be pleasing. An example would be gen28:8 In this case the daughters of canaan are not pleasing to him. Also on Num 11:1 the lord was displease which was not sexual at all.

    7. Alien or temporaries that become rich can own slaves

    Leviticus 25.47-47 If resident aliens among you prosper, and if any of your kin fall into difficulty with one of them and sell themselves to an alien, or to a branch of the alien’s family, 48 after they have sold themselves they shall have the right of redemption; one of their brothers may redeem them, 49 or their uncle or their uncle’s son may redeem them, or anyone of their family who is of their own flesh may redeem them; or if they prosper they may redeem themselves.

    *This shows us that temporaries or foreigners can actually own slaves. It is strange how the servant her can redeem himself, but this is most likely indentured servitude.

    8. slaves can own slaves…???

    2 Samuel 19.16-18- 16 Shimei son of Gera, the Benjaminite, from Bahurim, hurried to come down with the people of Judah to meet King David; 17 with him were a thousand people from Benjamin. And Ziba, the servant of the house of Saul, with his fifteen sons and his twenty servants, rushed down to the Jordan ahead of the king, 18 while the crossing was taking place,[c] to bring over the king’s household, and to do his pleasure.

    *This could probably help slaves loosen the workload. This is probably just an example of a very well off slave. Notice how it says servant of the house of saul which shows that this is not just a loyal citizen to the king. It may be a bondservant or it may be a foreign servant, to be honest I do not know.

    9.Women and children could be taken as prisoners of war and married off or serve as servants

    Deuteronomy 20:14-You may, however, take as your booty the women, the children, livestock, and everything else in the town, all its spoil. You may enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you.

    *reminder I will not be discussing the war with the canaanites. Hebrew word is [‘akal] which means to eat…. I doubt it has to do with the children. This is the subject of cannibalism and will also not be discussed.

    Deuteronomy 21:10-14-10 When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God hands them over to you and you take them captive, 11 suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman whom you desire and want to marry, 12 and so you bring her home to your house: she shall shave her head, pare her nails, 13 discard her captive’s garb, and shall remain in your house a full month, mourning for her father and mother; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money. You must not treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

    *This was done to reintegrate them into hebrew society. Keep in mind most marriages were already arranged. I’m not saying this was good, but rather I’m saying that it was not as bad AS OTHER PLACES.

    What the fundy hears vs what we hear.

    JP Holding actually deals with these quite well, I recommend checking it out.

    Bible thoughts regarding slaves(*hebrew, ** foreign & ***ALL)

    ***Genesis: before the fall there were 0 slaves. Using this reasoning alone we can see that slavery was never truly intended.

    Genesis 15.3... And Abram said, “You have given me no offspring, and so a slave born in my house is to be my heir.

    * since the slave was born in his house it is local but the newborn servant could have had foreign parents. Anyway this shows that slaves could become heirs. ***Proverbs 17 also shows how wise slaves could gain inheritance. It may actually include foreign slaves since it does not specify.gain inheritance

    Genesis 17.12-

    ***ALL slaves could join the covenant and we're seen as equals in God's covenant. This reasoning can also be used to show they were equal in life as well. This theme is also seen in the NT as well.

    Genesis 20:18

    ***slaves were considered part of one's household. They also lived in the same house as their owners, which can be seen all over. Also here 2 samuel 9:10, genesis 24, exodus 20:17

    This should be obvious, on the seventh day everyone rested. Pretty neat, slaves do not have to work on the sabbath. Exodus 20:10 They also enjoyed many other jewish holidays and festivals ***Exodus 12.43-49 43

    Genesis 24.52-67... quote too long click link. Woman could make choices and owned slaves.

    Also In genesis 24 abraham’s servant was given tremendous privileges and he may have been a foreign slave.

    Exodus 20:17… people were not to covet anothers servants, wife, house or property.

    ***Exodus 21.16: Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death.

    ***It should be noted that prisoners of war were kidnapped, but this was seen as an act of mercy. Also note we are not discussing whether or not the war against the canaanites was moral, but rather the idea of enslaving. Oh and any comments and emails I see trying to change the subject will be ignored and not responded to...in this section.

    ***Exodus 21.20-21- 20 When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

    ***Slave may not be beaten to death and the owner will get the death penalty. If the slave survives a day or two than the benefit of the doubt is given that the owner did not intend to kill the slave. Also interesting note on sacred-text website. The owner is not guilty in civil court but is a murderer in the eyes of god. Furthermore it should be noted that this verse, regardless of translation, does not say beating slaves is a morally correct practice. Nor does it say beating slaves is wise, but rather it just has penalties for it. Beating was a common punishment for freemen as well. (Deuteronomy 25.1-3) Beatings were also restricted to a maximum of 40 lashes(deuteronomy 25:43)

    Alternate translation of Exodus 21.20-21- When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod, and the slave dies under his abuse,[a] the owner must be punished.[b]21 However, if the slave can stand up after a day or two, the owner should not be punished[c] because he is his owner’s property.[d]

    *** The reason for this translation is based on the hebrew words and the context of this entire chapter. Basically the entire context has to deal with the different applications of certain laws to individuals of different social and economic class. I would suggest reading the entire chapter to see all the examples. Basically punishment for a regular person is described and then punishment for a pregnant woman, slave, or animal is described in that order. So since Exodus 21.18-19 is translated as

    When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, 19 but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.” [nrsv]

    The second reason for this is the hebrew word ‘amad which literally means to stand. This element is also found in the previous law except with the use of a different word, but this word also means to stand. Most of the times when things are repeated words will be replace or dropped and synonyms will be used. Also even with this translation the beating of slaves is not seen as moral, intelligent, or advisable. This translation is accepted by the following bible versions: NLT, NIV,HCSB,

    ***Exodus 21.26-27-26 When a slave owner strikes the eye of a male or female slave, destroying it, the owner shall let the slave go, a free person, to compensate for the eye. 27 If the owner knocks out a tooth of a male or female slave, the slave shall be let go, a free person, to compensate for the tooth.

    *** there is a general relationship to the code of lex talionis . [OAB:NRSV, p.113] This law should not be limited to just an eye and a tooth but propable also covers any serious injury.

    ***Exodus 23- Basically this deals with justice for everyone.

    ***Leviticus 19.33-34:

    ***Aliens are to be respected and treated as equal. This also applies to permanent slaves since they are foreigners.

    ***Leviticus 19.29: prohibits “pimping” out girls.

    *Leviticus 25:47-55

    *This shows that hebrew servants could be redeemed by their family.

    *Leviticus 25:55

    *hebrew were slaves to god. Which shows that hebrews should treat their slaves like how god treats them.

    **Deut 10:19

    **required to love strangers, also seen in Deut 10:18 and exodus 22:20

    ***Deut 14.21

    ***foreigners were not restricted to certain foods, unless they joined the covenant.

    ***Deut 15.12-15:

    ***Slaves were given property when they left. This was probably carried over to foreign slaves, but only if they were set free.

    ***Deut 16:9-12

    *** this is a common theme in which israel was reminded that they were once slaves from israel. This was done so that Israel would remember that they were shown mercy by god and they should recipricate by treating their own slaves well.

    ***Deut 23.15-16: 15 Slaves[‘ebed] who have escaped to you from their owners shall not be given back to them. 16 They shall reside with you, in your midst, in any place they choose in any one of your towns, wherever they please; you shall not oppress them.

    *** [OAB:NRSV]States that “The law rejects the almost universal stipulation within ANE law that escaped slaves must be returned [p.288] This is a complete reversal from other ANE codes like hammurabi “If any one receive into his house a runaway male or female slave of the court, or of a freedman, and does not bring it out at the public proclamation of the major domus, the master of the house shall be put to death.”[HAM:LAW]

    ***deut 24:17-22

    ***Once again israel was reminded that they were shown mercy by god in israel. This verse also shows that foreigners could take any of the harvest that was missed.

    ***(I Sam 8.6ff)

    This showed how the elite would abuse the israelites with their power. God prefered not to have a king but in the end he allowed them.

    ***2 Sam 9:16-18 slaves could own property and other slaves

    ***2 Kings 4 many israelites also had a negative view on slavery and continually selling their children just to keep themselves alive.

    Nehemiah 5 shows how perpetual slavery is a bad thing and also shows a general distaste for slave rape.

    ***Ecclus 33

    ***Slaves were to be treated fairly and could not be treated unfairly. Also if you work a slave hard you will have peace of mind, but if he is idle he will ask for freedom. Basically i interpret this to mean that slaves should not be worked too hard or kept too idle.

    ***Joel 3:4-8

    In this god shows his abhorrence towards slavery and punishes those who enslaved the israelites with slavery.

    ***Job 31.15: If I have rejected the cause of my male or female slaves[‘amah],

    when they brought a complaint against me;

    14 what then shall I do when God rises up?

    When he makes inquiry, what shall I answer him?

    15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?

    And did not one fashion us in the womb?

    *Slaves could complain to their masters, it was seen as admirable to listen, and lastly slaves were seen as equal. [OAB:NRSV] “13-15 Job goes far beyond the obligations of his time in admitting that slaves have any rights and in affirming their common humanity with him”.
    Silk likes this.
  3. Brian, I really should be more interested in your subject, but I think I know about both Scriptural and American slavery, so I hesitate to apply my time reading it. I really should read it. While my family thought itself to be average "white people," I learned, when I was 22, that I also descended from an extremely dark African-American family slave and even saw his photo. Just that should make me want to know more on some level.

    Right now, I am going through a period of needing rest. When I can, I want to read what you have written.
  4. Funny thing @tesriLi, I was just finishing skimming when you made your post. It is a vast amount of information and is going to need a 2nd reading on my part. I'm not clear on what the OP author wants, if any discussion. I can't see where any issue of slavery was missed (OT wise). The deep south used the idea as slavery is biblical before and during the civil war. What I didn't know about slavery is that Islam thrived on this crummy practice for centuries (well before America was founded) and that all American slaves were bought from Arab/muslim slave markets. David Livingstone (of the Dr.Livingston, I presume) wrote about slavery practices in Africa and a horrible massacre which caused either a rise (I forgot) to abolitionalism or weapon of mass destruction against slavery. Slavery was instituted by man against man for the sole benefit of the owner. Better, I suppose, than killing but not by a whole helluva lot. Slavery, so media tells us continues to this day.
  5. @Silk My family moved from California to Mississippi when I was 8.5 y-o. To me then, there was not a whole lot of difference between how black people were treated and how they were treated as slaves. They were still in what I still see as a form of slavery. Through taxes, they were forced to pay for schools and materials they were not allowed to use, for swimming areas they were not allowed to use, and the list could go on. While I had been taught to expect it, it was still amazing to me, upon my first day at school, that there were no black people there, except when they worked in the hot kitchen. (On that first day, I could not keep my mouth shut about that.) They were in our parades, but only with a bucket and shovel behind the horses. Things have certainly changed since then, however.

    And yes, slavery continues today in the U.S. and in other countries. Horrifying.
    Silk likes this.
  6. We are about the same age, baby boomers as it were, and up North, in Upstate NY, there were 3 Jews and 1 black in a graduating class of aprox. 500. And there was rampant prejudice there, then, too. Just not as obvious. But I literally cried when I first heard MLK's speech, "I have a Dream" (http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm ). I'm so glad attitudes have changed, at least on it's face. And I'm WASP.
    That people kidnap other human beings, mostly girls and make them sex slaves sickens me.
  7. When we lived in Maryland during the Vietnam war, we were on a drive and were shocked to see a wooden sign above a park entrance in one of the states north of MD which said, "No Dogs or Jews." Also, I know that WA, D.C. is considered to be in the South, but we were shocked when we returned for a second Sunday to a church there, intending to attend. After the service, the pastor, ashamed, asked us not to return. Our presence there endangered not only us but also the congregation. This was in 1970. We were the only white people there, and we understood that, but we had no idea that it mattered. We were naive enough to not be aware that things had not been resolved.

    I suppose we are taking this thread off-course...?
    Silk likes this.
  8. I'm hearing a lot of heart warming stories. It should be noted that I'm note saying slavery is good or that biblical slavery is the best thing. I'm simply just showing how it is. I'm also showing how even in the OT there is an anti-slavery message. To quote from augustine

    The prime cause, then, of slavery is sin, which brings man under the dominion of his fellow -- that which does not happen save by the judgment of God, with whom is no unrighteousness, and who knows how to award fit punishments to every variety of offence.It is with justice, we believe, that the condition of slavery is the result of sin. And this is why we do not find the word 'slave' in any part of Scripture until righteous Noah branded the sin of his son with this name. It is a name, therefore, introduced by sin and not by nature.
  9. You'd have to walk me thru what you mean by sin caused slavery - on the slaves part? Or the people who set up slavery?
  10. Before the fall and before noah cursed his son, there were zero slaves. This means that human corruption brought about enslavement. The slave is not guilty for being a slave, but rather the owner is guilty for following such a corrupt system. In genesis 2 we see that man was never intended to rule man, but rather to be free.
  11. You mean after Ham saw Noah passed out and naked? But didn't Ham get land and go further out? I'm lousy at Geography where was Ham's land again? I agree with the rest of your statement but altho I remember Noah's "curse" I don't recall any slave mention in the 3 sons lifetime.
  12. Brian, thank you for letting us have our discussion within your thread. It looks like you didn't mind. You are very kind. :)
    Silk likes this.
  13. "enslaving someone else can be considered acceptable given exigent circumstances"

    The end justifies the means.

    Satanic in every way.
  14. Don't pay too much attention to the thread it was more of an experimental try for me.

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