Religion, Faith And Rituals

Ok now I'm really confused. How could god be 2 people?? Ok so god got Mary pregnant and Jesus was born who was gods son because god impregnated her. So how is god the father and god the son? I really don't get this. If god wanted to come to earth as a human could he not have just come here in a human form himself?
The answer can be found in this verse."God is spirit" (John 4:24). Both God the Father and God the Son, Jesus, are distinct separate individuals who are one in Spirit, in the fullness of the Holy Spirit. God is also the Holy Spirit.
The believer also is one with God in the Holy Spirit, however the believer is subject to the will of God in the Spirit.
The oneness is shown in this scripture. "I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. (John 14:20).
Jesus prayed this, "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made youe known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them (John 17:20-26).
This is being one in Spirit. As believers we walk in the Spirit producing fruit. This fruit is described in the bible as, "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control" (Galatians 5:22-23).
What is so beautiful, so amazing is how God has made every believer in the Spirit. Each believer is special completely unique and beautiful, yet part of the whole. We are all unique special treasures that adds different blessing and beauty to the whole. We are all like notes in a beautiful piece of music, yet within each tone there are even variances (like loud, soft, fast, slow). Eternity will be filled with never ending creativity in an array of beauty upon beauty, all giving so all are blessed.
The bible explains Mary getting pregnant this way, "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:36). This was a miraculous spiritual experience. Notice that Mary calls herself a bondslave of the Lord, for the bible says, "And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word (Luke 1:38). Although she is the physical mother of Jesus, she is not the spiritual mother of Jesus. Mary was a virgin still. Her pregnancy came as a result of God the Father's faith and will for Jesus to be born as our sacrifice for sins. God did not just come to earth because Jesus had to go through what we did to be our sacrifice. Perfection is shown when someone stands the test against evil.
"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin" (Hebrews 4:15).
"In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered (Hebrews 2:10).
This is not implying that Jesus was imperfect (for Jesus never had any sin in him), rather it is showing that for perfection to be shown or known as perfection it has to be tested. It was the fact that he suffered in all the ways we do, but didn't sin that shows he was perfect. Isaiah 53 gives us a picture of how much he suffered for what our sins have done:
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering.
However, this is also extremely beautiful in that Jesus loved us so much and God wanted us so much as his family that he did all this for us. This depth of God's love is eternal.
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God can be TWO people, that same way He can be THREE. He can also take the form of a ghost, but Holy. ..yeah, sure.

God is Spirit, and He is also HOLY: so He is not the person (people) of the Holy Ghost: just as HE is not His own son, nor
His own Father. That is catholic doctrine, pure and simple. Where did they get that doctrine? from the imagination of their minds, without God's Spirit (which, of course, is Holy).

See, that is what happens when people reject the Gospel of the Lord Jesus: if the foundation is crooked, the whole house will be crooked. That is not to say that the scriptures are not correct: they are just not being used right!

That's why some are implying that only the "trinity" saves: but the scriptures say: "Whosoever shall call upon the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." Do you see the promise in the words: "shall be"?

Walk in the Truth, Beloved.
 
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God can be TWO people, that same way He can be THREE. He can also take the form of a ghost, but Holy. ..yeah, sure.

God is Spirit, and He is also HOLY: so He is not the person (people) of the Holy Ghost: just as HE is not His own son, nor
His own Father. That is catholic doctrine, pure and simple. Where did they get that doctrine? from the imagination of their minds, without God's Spirit (which, of course, is Holy).

The Original Cathloic Doctrine (Trinity 325ad) made them both separate but from the same "Essence" that essence is a god essence.
The Father proceeds from the son of the same essence but not His own father.

The Real Trinity doctrine knew of the many scriptures contradictions just saying ONE GOD, so they made it One God of the same essence. God, of God. It later became 3 in One Godhead or Jesus the 2nd person in the Godhead.

It was 1914 when Oneness came in and really messed things up, then Modelist came (People trying to prove Trinity in scripture but end up Oneness and hence they model their belief from both doctrines)

There are ZERO scriptures saying God can be Two people. The Scripture has always kept both separate. That is mans doctrine.
 
Whats Wrong with the WOF Doctrine, whatever that might be. They don't preach Predestination but make man responsible before God to receive from God by Faith. Predestination removes all concepts of faith. If God wants you sick, then nothing you can believe different changes that. If God wants you in hell, then your screwed buddy, accepting Jesus won't help you. (OH, ya, you would be made to stupid to accept Jesus)
Jesus lied saying All things are possible to him that believe.................... (to the man that needed his son healed)
Election, Predestination says that the one that believes by His stripes we are healed and speaks nothing against it, will get the same results as someone in fear asking if it be God's will to heal them please heal them. If not Oh Mysterious God, then thy will be done, sniff......sniff......sniff....Just saying.
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To me, the WOF has the Gospel backwards. I "hear" them saying (written words are our visible speech), "by faith are you saved, through grace.'" They ask the people not to worry; don't question their words; just believe and give them your money. They use scriptures, but "...deny the power thereof." I didn't sat the WOF preached predestination, I question that Mitspa seems to
believe that: and that he came out of the WOF. Didn't mean to confuse.

No doubt about it: the WORD of God is powerful: and the signs and wonders that are performed, are done so in His NAME. But it is not they, but the NAME! They have faith in the NAME, but refuse to submit to it. They found the power in the NAME, but instead of submitting, they went about to establish their own name (righteousness)! Just as those who build a tower: "...let's make us a tower whose top may reach unto heaven, and make us a name...". That was the first "denomination". Do you know why?

Walk in the Truth.
 
The Original Cathloic Doctrine (Trinity 325ad) made them both separate but from the same "Essence" that essence is a god essence.
The Father proceeds from the son of the same essence but not His own father.
The Real Trinity doctrine knew of the many scriptures contradictions just saying ONE GOD, so they made it One God of the same essence. God, of God. It later became 3 in One Godhead or Jesus the 2nd person in the Godhead.
It was 1914 when Oneness came in and really messed things up, then Modelist came (People trying to prove Trinity in scripture but end up Oneness and hence they model their belief from both doctrines)
There are ZERO scriptures saying God can be Two people. The Scripture has always kept both separate. That is mans doctrine.
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If you read my post a little slower, that is what I am saying!

Walk in the Truth, Beloved.
 
Well thank you Mario... It is God who justifies and who can condemn? That's why I would never question your salvation, or try to cause you to doubt the promise God has made to you. Those who think to "unsave" other believers are not keeping these things in mind.
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There you go again. I have to question the faith you preach, because it does not up with the Gospel! But I must confess that in that particular post, you have the scripture tight.

His NAME is Jesus!
 
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To me, the WOF has the Gospel backwards. I "hear" them saying (written words are our visible speech), "by faith are you saved, through grace.'" They ask the people not to worry; don't question their words; just believe and give them your money. They use scriptures, but "...deny the power thereof." I didn't sat the WOF preached predestination, I question that Mitspa seems to
believe that: and that he came out of the WOF. Didn't mean to confuse.

Is it right to put someone in question based on a denomination they are tied to? Should we not hear them out without any prejudiced?

I mean Baptist don't always mean zero faith, no faith in the gifts Calvin worshiper.

I am hard Core WOF, but I have not been around this "Give me your money" stuff wherever that comes from. I believe in giving, and believe money is a tool. I don't consider amounts as who has more than God. I don't know who "they" is.

I am scripture only though, Came from my studies off Peter Ruckman Baptist. He has some great books, though He is confused about tongues, but still.
The Word of Faith does not have a give me your money Doctrine. In fact we are taught that Man can't be our source, and not to look at man, and man can't be the source for the Church. The Pastor should never, never, never pull on people for money, or even hint they need money.

You must have those on TBN mixed with some other folks.

Be blessed.
 
Is it right to put someone in question based on a denomination they are tied to? Should we not hear them out without any prejudiced?
I mean Baptist don't always mean zero faith, no faith in the gifts Calvin worshiper.
I am hard Core WOF, but I have not been around this "Give me your money" stuff wherever that comes from. I believe in giving, and believe money is a tool. I don't consider amounts as who has more than God. I don't know who "they" is.
I am scripture only though, Came from my studies off Peter Ruckman Baptist. He has some great books, though He is confused about tongues, but still.
The Word of Faith does not have a give me your money Doctrine. In fact we are taught that Man can't be our source, and not to look at man, and man can't be the source for the Church. The Pastor should never, never, never pull on people for money, or even hint they need money.
You must have those on TBN mixed with some other folks.
Be blessed.
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Beloved, I put no one in question based on their peculiar denomination: it does, however, give me an understanding of where their
doctrine lies. As far as denominations, I have said this before: very few embrace the Gospel that saves. The Lord raised up some preachers, but they reverted back to where they came, albeit with an "improved" version. Many others come to the Gospel, and believed; but then come on board, believing that all the doctrines they brought with them are Biblical. They have, unwittingly, become the carpetbaggers of the spiritual movement.

I saw TBN emerge almost from its infancy: and I discerned the spirit that was driving them. I "saw" the ravening wolves in
control of TBN: enticing men called into the Ministry with a microphone, and seducing them with adulation, and bringing them captive into their fold.

The Ministry is called "...for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and the for edifying of the body of Christ."
Because this has only been accomplished in a few congregations, the work of the ministry has been hindered; that is, the preaching of the Gospel has, for the most part, been ineffectual. I said the Gospel.

Walk in the Truth, Beloved.
 
I was just thinking about that after I posted. I can tell which one is talking to me through the Holy Spirit. You just know when the Son is speaking to you, it's about Church, it's down to business. Some won't understand that, but I understand what your saying perfectly.

Being part of the Pentecostal camp, Jesus was the Word part of God. (His name means the Word, not he is a word Rev)
I was praising God for something and said thank you Jesus, well your God so Thank you God.

The Lord spoke to me, It was the first time I knew it was Jesus, it was down to business. He said, "I am not my Father."
That did not make sense, and took years later to understand. I will never forget it though.

His voice sounds different, just can't explain, but you just know.

OK, Two under the Holy Spirit.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

For the Holy Spirit to be God, He would have to speak of his own and just not what He hears. Instead He is God's spirit, somehow divided by 7 (Isa) (Rev) On the Earth is God with us through His Spirit. Who knows.............

The Holy Spirit is on Earth though, to enforce the Word and testify of Jesus, convicting the World of sin.

I want you to think of the Word god as a class of being. Think of it as Family. I am not saying there is one God then saying there are two.

The bible says there is only one Lord God. None like him. Both in the OT and the NT.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

People say that..... Well, Jesus laid aside his Mighty Powers and was just in man form, that is why He said that because in God form He is just as Great as the Father or even is the Father (Oneness)

NO, God was manifest in the Flesh, Christ came in the Flesh. He is still God, Still always with the Father, and Still did not sin. Only God can do that.

Jesus is still fully God, the Son of God. He is not confused about who His father is. It's His God also.
Eph 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Paul cleared it up, Paul said there be gods many and lords many but to US there are TWO.
Paul did not mention the Holy Spirit though.

God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Father and Son.

The Term god is always generic unless it's in title form.

Satan was called god of this world, Jesus call us gods........ None of that put's Satan or us on the level of God the Father and God the Son. Jesus said nobody can be greater than his master, it suffice to be the same as the Master.

When we read the Word without mans concept (Trinity, Oneness, Modelist) then read as fresh we see clearly. With mans concept we continue to miss what is very apparent there.

Be blessed.
I am not sure why you think I disagree with you. I believe Jesus is fully God and that God the Father is also fully God. I never said anything against this. I said they are one in Spirit.

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one" (Deuteronomy 6:4).
 
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Beloved, I put no one in question based on their peculiar denomination: it does, however, give me an understanding of where their
doctrine lies. As far as denominations, I have said this before: very few embrace the Gospel that saves.

I understand, then we have to define what Gospel is............ When John in prison about to be beheaded asked if Jesus was the one to come, he said go tell John the dead are raised the leopards and cleaned, the blind recive site the Gospel preached.

To me, anything that does not give faith to be healed, get victory in ones life is not the gospel that saves anything.

God is mysterious in all his ways, and you just never know if God wants you healed or not........... Is not gospel that saves anyone.

I am not a TBN Fan, God bless them if they helped anyone and not everyone on there is bad. Still don't watch it.
 
I am not sure why you think I disagree with you. I believe Jesus is fully God and that God the Father is also fully God. I never said anything against this. I said they are one in Spirit.

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one" (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Fine then, but I count Two not one. One of the same Spirit? I separate them, but I won't nit pick. Good enough.

To say we have perfect knowledge without ever being there in front of them would be silly anyway.
 
The Original Cathloic Doctrine (Trinity 325ad) made them both separate but from the same "Essence" that essence is a god essence.
The Father proceeds from the son of the same essence but not His own father.
The Real Trinity doctrine knew of the many scriptures contradictions just saying ONE GOD, so they made it One God of the same essence. God, of God. It later became 3 in One Godhead or Jesus the 2nd person in the Godhead.
It was 1914 when Oneness came in and really messed things up, then Modelist came (People trying to prove Trinity in scripture but end up Oneness and hence they model their belief from both doctrines)
There are ZERO scriptures saying God can be Two people. The Scripture has always kept both separate. That is mans doctrine.
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So you believe there are 2 persons in God?
Let me say this, Beloved, I do not "study" the denominations to see what they believe. I study the Gospel, and proceed from
that Truth. Now allow me to ask you a question: do you believe that the flesh (of Jesus) is God? Or do you believe that God (the Word) was "in" the body of the Christ: "...for in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Or as we would say in today's vernacular: "For in the body of the Christ abides all that is and can be called God." I believe there is only one God, who
is Spirit; and one person, who is the son of God. But let me see if I can make myself more clear: "In the beginning of creation, God spoke: the words God spoke came from His innermost being, and the words He spoke went forth in power: for it was He Himself that spoke."


Beloved, Walk in the Light.
 
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God can be TWO people, that same way He can be THREE. He can also take the form of a ghost, but Holy. ..yeah, sure.

God is Spirit, and He is also HOLY: so He is not the person (people) of the Holy Ghost: just as HE is not His own son, nor
His own Father. That is catholic doctrine, pure and simple. Where did they get that doctrine? from the imagination of their minds, without God's Spirit (which, of course, is Holy).

See, that is what happens when people reject the Gospel of the Lord Jesus: if the foundation is crooked, the whole house will be crooked. That is not to say that the scriptures are not correct: they are just not being used right!

That's why some are implying that only the "trinity" saves: but the scriptures say: "Whosoever shall call upon the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." Do you see the promise in the words: "shall be"?

Walk in the Truth, Beloved.

God identifies himself as God the Father and God the Son. They are two distinct different individuals (Spirits) that are one in God's Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. God is Spirit. Just like we all individually have a spirit and when saved we live in the Holy Spirit which is God. I am sorry Mario, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you (John 14:20).

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Romans 8:16).

Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, but it is the Holy Spirit that causes a person to even know they need the savior.
 
Fine then, but I count Two not one. One of the same Spirit? I separate them, but I won't nit pick. Good enough.

To say we have perfect knowledge without ever being there in front of them would be silly anyway.
Yes One in the same Spirit. I know God the Father as a fully distinct and different personality than Jesus who has a completely unique and distinct personality from God the Father.
 
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So you believe there are 2 persons in God?
Let me say this, Beloved, I do not "study" the denominations to see what they believe. I study the Gospel, and proceed from
that Truth. Now allow me to ask you a question: do you believe that the flesh (of Jesus) is God? Or do you believe that God (the Word) was "in" the body of the Christ: "...for in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Or as we would say in today's vernacular: "For in the body of the Christ abides all that is and can be called God." I believe there is only one God, who
is Spirit; and one person, who is the son of God. But let me see if I can make myself more clear: "In the beginning of creation, God spoke: the words God spoke came from His innermost being, and the words He spoke went forth in power: for it was He Himself that spoke."


Beloved, Walk in the Light.

I really don't want to go over this again. WOF is Trinity....... Jesus the 2nd person in the Godehead. Not the Father, but 1 in the Godhead. I don't dislike Trinity but I don't agree with it......... Trinity also says Jesus was Begotten, not made, came through the father before the Foundation of the World, of the same essence as the Father.

No Scriptures mentions Jesus being begotten until God sent the son to be a flesh man. He was already around forever long before that. He just came to see us.

Jesus Christ came in the flesh, God manifest in the Flesh. So He is God, but has flesh. (Not his Father though) God sent his son, whom he gave glory to before the earth was even made. The Father sent "God" the son. Which I already posted tons of scripture concerning.

Be blessed.

Yes One in the same Spirit. I know God the Father as a fully distinct and different personality than Jesus who has a completely unique and distinct personality from God the Father.

OK, you say two different personalities, I say two Gods........ One is our advocate always making intercessions for us. I am not sure about this "Same" Spirit, but if you say so, good enough.

Trinity stated they are of both of the same "god" essence. If that is what that means, then OK.
 
I understand, then we have to define what Gospel is............ When John in prison about to be beheaded asked if Jesus was the one to come, he said go tell John the dead are raised the leopards and cleaned, the blind recive site the Gospel preached.
To me, anything that does not give faith to be healed, get victory in ones life is not the gospel that saves anything.
God is mysterious in all his ways, and you just never know if God wants you healed or not........... Is not gospel that saves anyone.
I am not a TBN Fan, God bless them if they helped anyone and not everyone on there is bad. Still don't watch it.
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Exactly. The Gospel is the core of our salvation (yes, I now: someone will say NO!, It's Jesus!). Of course He is. But the apostle to the Gentiles would not have us be ignorant. He said, "I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which you also have received, and wherein you stand. By which also you are saved, if you keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried , and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures." So you see: it's not just about believing in Jesus, but about believing the atonement for our sins. In the same vein, it is not about believing in God, that can save us; but in believing that God "...is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

Abraham was not justified because he believed in God: but because he believed God's promise! By the same token, we are not saved because we believe in Jesus: but because we believe the promise: "...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, to them that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

So where is the second witness to the "core" of the Gospel? It is Peter, full of the Holy Spirit, who declared: "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise...".

Beloved, Walk in the Truth.
 
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Mitspa:
Man inherited the propensity to sin, but not the very sin of Adam. That sin (of Adam) was resolved on the cross. If we say that we, as you SEEM to propose, inherited Adam's sin, then we are saying that the Lord's sacrifice was only partial: like the gospel that you preach. Then yes, your gospel would conform to Adam's sin: and your gospel would not only be correct, but right. To be fair, I will post the Gospel I preach, so that there be no confusion as to where I stand. It can be found in Mk. 16:15-16; Acts 2:38-39;and I cor. 15:1-4. I believe there is sufficient Biblical evidence to say that the words of Jesus and his apostles are true.

I can see where the children of those nations whom the Lord has cursed are cursed unto the third and fourth generation. (please,
I am not considering the "generational curse" that modernists propagate upon Christianity to keep them in bondage); and I can
see that that curse could be extended upon the Church, if we start to behave like those nations, even as the OT Israelites. No
man can know everything: that is why it is so necessary that we gather as believers: because as a Church, it has been given us to understand and obey the Gospel. But if we neglect the gift, it will profit us nothing.

I agree that the propensity to sin is in the flesh: but not the very sin itself. Paul said, "...it is sin that dwells in me." Was he saying that it was the sin that he was born with: or the sin that he had sinned, and the propensity to sin that was still residing in his flesh...his spirit, however, clean of sin and of unrighteousness? And now I will say this plainly, not to be misunderstood:
No one who denies the Gospel is truly free from sin. A man may believe in Jesus, but that by itself does not equal salvation.
Has no one heard? "Faith without works is dead." The works which we speak, are the works of obedience.

Candelario Mario Villa
Well Mario, you argue against your self. That no man has the Spirit of God apart from faith in Christ is evident. So the truths of these scriptures are not applied to nonbelievers or those who have not received the Spirit of God. Thus they are yet in the condition of Adams fall and sin. This is not as complicated as you seem to be trying to make it?
 
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Exactly. The Gospel is the core of our salvation (yes, I now: someone will say NO!, It's Jesus!). Of course He is. But the apostle to the Gentiles would not have us be ignorant. He said, "I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which you also have received, and wherein you stand. By which also you are saved, if you keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried , and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures." So you see: it's not just about believing in Jesus, but about believing the atonement for our sins.

We have the Atonement part, but saved........... Means a lot of things also. My stance is what you said, but also what Jesus did by destroying the Works of the devil, which was Killing, Stealing and destroying.

to me the gospel is more than just believing atonement for sin. He also redeemed us from the curse of the law, Peter also answering to how that man got healed saying no other name given unto men but Jesus that we might be healed.... (Saved)
 
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You ARE preaching predestination! Or a form of it.
Of course God is just: whoever said He was not? No, that is what YOU are hearing, because you do not like anyone disagreeing with you. You say that a child is born with sin...and then you say that God will not condemn a child...
Just what is it you are saying? Oh! I remember. Faith. It's all about faith. You came in from the WOF, and brought that doctrine right along: and now you want to be some great preacher. I get it.
OK. DO you believe the Gospel of Jesus and His apostles: or do believe they are wrong? You cannot have it both ways.

Walk in the Light, as He is in the Light.
I said what I said, in a very simple and clear way. I was not speaking on biblical predestination... Which is understood according to scripture and not mans traditions.
 
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Mitspa:
Man inherited the propensity to sin, but not the very sin of Adam. That sin (of Adam) was resolved on the cross. If we say that we, as you SEEM to propose, inherited Adam's sin, then we are saying that the Lord's sacrifice was only partial: like the gospel that you preach. Then yes, your gospel would conform to Adam's sin: and your gospel would not only be correct, but right. To be fair, I will post the Gospel I preach, so that there be no confusion as to where I stand. It can be found in Mk. 16:15-16; Acts 2:38-39;and I cor. 15:1-4. I believe there is sufficient Biblical evidence to say that the words of Jesus and his apostles are true.

I can see where the children of those nations whom the Lord has cursed are cursed unto the third and fourth generation. (please,
I am not considering the "generational curse" that modernists propagate upon Christianity to keep them in bondage); and I can
see that that curse could be extended upon the Church, if we start to behave like those nations, even as the OT Israelites. No
man can know everything: that is why it is so necessary that we gather as believers: because as a Church, it has been given us to understand and obey the Gospel. But if we neglect the gift, it will profit us nothing.

I agree that the propensity to sin is in the flesh: but not the very sin itself. Paul said, "...it is sin that dwells in me." Was he saying that it was the sin that he was born with: or the sin that he had sinned, and the propensity to sin that was still residing in his flesh...his spirit, however, clean of sin and of unrighteousness? And now I will say this plainly, not to be misunderstood:
No one who denies the Gospel is truly free from sin. A man may believe in Jesus, but that by itself does not equal salvation.
Has no one heard? "Faith without works is dead." The works which we speak, are the works of obedience.

Candelario Mario Villa
No Mario, you have claimed that the atonement of Christ is granted apart from faith in Christ. And again those who make up doctrines because they "think" it should be this or that are always in error.
 
We have the Atonement part, but saved........... Means a lot of things also. My stance is what you said, but also what Jesus did by destroying the Works of the devil, which was Killing, Stealing and destroying.
to me the gospel is more than just believing atonement for sin. He also redeemed us from the curse of the law, Peter also answering to how that man got healed saying no other name given unto men but Jesus that we might be healed.... (Saved)
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Yes, Jesus redeemed (bought back) every man, woman and child who was ever born, and will ever be born: he also paid the price for our sins, which is death. And yes: Jesus destroyed the power that sin had over man through his resurrection. It was not enough that he suffered and died; but the resurrection was the proof that sin could not hold him because he had no sin: and the descension from the Father was proof that his blood has been accepted for our propitiation.

Beloved, Walk in the Spirit.
 
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