Receiving The Baptism Of The Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Holy Spirit Baptism and Living' started by blessed09, Oct 20, 2013.

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  1. Sometimes we do not know what to pray for. We know how to pray, and we know what name to pray in, but we don't always know what we should pray for, and that is were the Holy Spirit comes to our aid.

    Rom 8:26.. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

    Ever hear of a guy named "P. C. Nelson? He was a Greek scholar who is the founder of the "Southwestern Bible Institute", he said the Greek word in Romans 8:26 literally reads, "...the Holy Ghost maketh intercession for us in groaning that cannot be uttered in articulate speech"

    Articulate means, "in your normal regular kind of speech" I have never heard anyone groan without some kind of noise, have you?
    If there is no noise then there in no groaning. Besides, the Holy Spirit does not pray for us, he only helps us pray, that is why he is called our helper. Also Paul said, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth...." The Amplified Bible says....

    1 Co 14:14.. For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays, but my mind is unproductive [it bears no fruit and helps nobody].
     
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  2. What comes to mind is "We know not out what we should pray for but the Holy Spirit maketh interecession with groanings that cannoT be uttered ....."
    This has nothing to do with tounges admitedly .
    But we cannot always pray according to the limits of our OWN understanding or mans.
    Are we not called to pray "with ALL prayer"?
    There are many types of praying that are included in that 'all '.
    One of which is with the mind, another with the Spirit ,
    man looketh on the apearence man looketh on the heart does he not?
    In any situation do we not need the mind of the Spirit "who knoweth the mind of God " Even "the deep things of God "
    There are some things too deep to be expressed but can in and by the Holy Spirit with groinings that can be utetred make "effectual prayer"

    In Christ
    gerald
     
  3. The Holy Spirit groans in us. As in it affects our hearts and shames us bringing us low. And yes audible groanings can indeed be a byproduct. Also, further I think tongues could be anything from speaking in ancient tradition or sacred language that one may or may not understand(but that two witnesses should be able to interpret, to speaking only somewhat differently than you normally would as in from regular slang american English to a more proper speak similar to old English. Just a thought really, as I haven't experienced that gift first or third hand, but have read of it in scripture.

    I still don't get what people mean about not knowing what to pray for; thanks, direction, perseverance, patience, repentance/forgiveness( only when heart felt and honestly ready, as repeated sacrifice of anything is worthless), the well being and direction of others, to be indwelled with mercy, for hypocrisy and deceit to be cast out, and other worthy things of like sort. Surely everyone prays somewhat differently, but what to pray for, in my opinion, should be based on the selfless conscience, and what we are taught through scripture.

    Peace

    Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
     
  4. Jesus grew in Wisdom, and in stature in his physical life here on earth. (Luke 2:52) There were some things the man part of Jesus did not know, like when he would be coming back to this earth, but the divine nature inside Jesus, which was his Father knew all things. As a Christian our human part does not know all things, but the one living inside us does know all things, which is why the Holy Spirit can help us pray for things beyond our knowing. :)
     
  5. I get what you're saying, and have witnessed the Holy Spirit. I just don't understand the part about equating indecipherable ramblings with the Holy Spirit praying on your behalf. If the Holy Spirit dwells in you then wouldn't it direct you towards the light of GOD, and in doing so; wouldn't you then know what to pray for? I mean no disrespect, but I'm really not understanding, and I'm not daft or bereft of the Holy Spirit.

    Peace

    Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
     
  6. Which is why we are to pray with both our spirit, and with our understanding. Only praying using our understanding is limited by only what we know. There are much more things to for pray for that we simply know nothing about, but the Spirit of God does.

    1Co 14:14.. For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don't understand what I am saying.
    1Co 14:15.. Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand. (NLT)
     
  7. CCW95A,

    If you would review the texts within context you will see where I am coming from;
    1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
    5: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
    6: Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    7: And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
    8: For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
    9: So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    10: There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
    11: Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
    12: Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    13: Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
    14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
    15: What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

    We see here that unterpretable tounges isn't fruitful, but to pray in the Spirit and with understanding is benificial to the church or body of Christ.

    1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    16: Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
    17: For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
    18: I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    19: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
    20: Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
    21: In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    22: Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
    23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

    1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
    28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

    1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - 1ይ ቆረንቶስ
    33: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.


    So I see now that you where talking about praying privately to GOD alone. I understand now. Thank you.

    Peace

    Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
     
  8. Yes, some people get confessed over the fact that there is a gift of speaking in tongues in a Church service, with the interpretation that only comes as the Spirit wills, and then there is a more personal praying in tongues. Either way they both come from the Spirit of God.

    1Co 12:4.. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    1Co 12:5.. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
    1Co 12:6.. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
    1Co 12:7.. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
    1Co 12:8.. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
    1Co 12:9.. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
    1Co 12:10.. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
    1Co 12:11.. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
     
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  9. The contetxt in 1 Cor. 12:29 is that God gave ministry gifts to the people. A ministry that will strengthen, encourage, edify the people of God. Paul is sying that not have have the ministry of an Apostle, or Pastor or even ministry of Speaking in tongues. In another scripture Paul said, I'm glad that I spoke in tongues more than anyone of you. Thus, give us the idea that Paul himself is speaking in tongues. We cannot have one verse make such doctrines out of it, we need to have scriptures after scriptures to support and establish such teachings.

    In conclusion, everyone who are baptize in the Spirit the initial,evidence is speaking in tounges and Paul said this is to your personal edification, strengthening. But also, God gave the ministry of goft, like spewking in tongues for the church to be edify and strengthened through the interpretation of the tongues

    I hope and pray that this thought may have elignthen you on this topic. May we ever continue reading scriptures, rightly dividing the wod of truth. Godbless everyone
     
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  10. Just a friendly Reminder that the topic of speaking in tongues, sadly enough was one of the topics which made it into
    Topics that May Not be Discussed in the open forum.
    #2

    Blessings
    FCJ
     
  11. Im so sorry....
     
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  12. My Dear Brother mark_marcon
    It's really ok !!
    I just put that up for the benefit of the few who constantly feel the need to argue their belief and turn it into a war zone.

    Another words just doing what I like to do and head things off at the pass before the doctrine beliefs get slinging.
    Blessings
    FCJ

    Thee forum battle.jpg
     
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  13. I must protest!!!
    It is a shame that Forums (and not only this site) do degenerate into slanging matches between those who know the truth
    of Pentecost and those who do not have this experience and yet preach against the scriptures.

    Much of the problem lies in people who obviously do not speak in other tongues and therefore do not pray in the Spirit
    lecturing that their ignorance is valid; they quote scriptures without understanding.
    Really if one is not a subscriber to the original Apostolic gospel preached by Jesus and experienced by the first century
    Church then one is not qualified to preach against this, nor to attack the very words of Jesus.

    The Gospel of John promises the giving of the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth whom the world would not know, nor understand.
    Acts, the epistles and Revelation are all written to the saints, the Spirit-filled Church wherein praying in tongues is the only Bible
    evidence of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost).
    In fact speaking in tongues is the operative norm for Spirit-filled Christians of the first century.

    Should this Forum allow non-Spirit filled Christians access to discredit the gospel of the New Testament and preach against what
    Jesus declared to be the distinguishing signs of the true gospel?

    Rather than banning the topic of speaking or praying in tongues this thread should be set aside under a new sub-forum
    "Pentecostal & Apostolic" headline restricted to those who actually have the signs following promised by Jesus.
    Those who are outside this truth and Christian experience should not be allowed to trash the scriptures which so clearly
    uphold the evidence that those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit all did speak in other tongues.

    And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Acts 2:4
    Then followed the first instance of interpretation whereby God gave understanding to the hearers.
    Interpretation of tongues is still practiced faithfully in my Church in accordance with 1Corinthians 14...
     
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  14. Well pray it in!!
    Prayer can make it happen
     
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  15. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God,
    they sent unto them Peter and John:
    15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
    16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
    17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
    18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
    19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
    Acts 8:14-19
    These verses are very telling: how did Peter & John know with certainty that the Holy Ghost had not 'fallen' on none of them?
    Because the sign promised by Jesus had not happened - for none spoke in other tongues.
    Verse 17 is classic Pentecostal practice and what happens - they received the Holy Ghost.
    How did they know? What was the difference? What is the overriding exclusive evidence evidence referred to in Acts and
    elsewhere?


    44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
    45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles
    also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    Acts 10;44-47
    If this is not confirmation of what Jesus declared in Mark 16: 17 then I'll eat my New Testament.
     
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  16. [/QUOTE]
    If this is not confirmation of what Jesus declared in Mark 16: 17 then I'll eat my New Testament. [/QUOTE]

    You should be spiritually feeding on the new testament every day anyway my friend :)

    Blessings
     
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  17. 6cc263dc041b2570cd3e6ab1954cbd92.jpg
     
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  18. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven;
    but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
    33 For the bread of God is he which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world.
    34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
    35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst.
    John 6:32-35
     
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  19. Jesus came to baptize us with the Holy Spirit and with Holy Fire!
    We, as a people, are in desperate need of all nine gifts, all nine fruit, the Fire of God, and all the personal interactions with God we can get .
    But, do not believe you have to earn them or get to a certain point of readiness- you cannot earn His gifts but must instead gracefully receive them (by faith.)

    All that being said abide in the Vine and let the Life of that Vine (the Holy Spirit) flow through you and you will:
    Grow
    Blossom
    Bear fruit.
    Seek the fruit of the Spirit in your life for it is the nature of Christ expressed through you- if you do this your gifts will become apparent.
     
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  20. Be aware that certain gifts are unmentionables now. You may need to refresh yourself with the new rules.
     
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