Discussion in 'Holy Spirit Baptism and Living' started by blessed09, Oct 20, 2013.
How about find a better church that will teach them how to walk in the truth?
Brother pick up your sword and your rod and be a pastor yourself, if there is no one else..or at least until the Lord brings one to replace you.
Look Rav the devil will always build and point to the false to bring question on the true...but we never yeild the truth because of the false.
Oh brother, you don't know how much I would like to, we have stayed home for years at a time, until a new pastor comes and then the Lord puts on our hearts to go back, also, this is a small island and there aren't any other churches that don't teach this doctrine. We've, prayed and we've prayed and we've prayed for a revival here, but so far they are still walking in the dark, ...round about Easter time the Lord smacked both of us with Heb 10:25, we resisted vehemently for about three weeks, but Father always gets His way in the end, ...I've learned the hard way not to wait until the end, it's never pleasant.
Our ministry is with the youth because of my wife's niece, who lives with us and nephew, the church occupies all of their time, kinda like have to be there every time the doors are open, works oriented salvation, but whenever there is a holiday we have them over to our house for a big feed, games with some Bible study, but when it's refuted or explained away when they go back to church it's kind of hard to watch them as they sink deeper into the deception, actually our hearts are broken over them, the two I used in my examples have been to our house numerous times,we've broke bread with them, ...besides, if we walked away who would there be praying for them and loving on them?
Bro, I've tried that, ever since I was saved in my first church and then in my second church they told me they thought I was going to be a pastor, so much so I believed it, then a pastor came from Hawaii with a short term mission team early in the 2000's, gave me Spurgeons book, Lesson to my Students, I got as far as where he asked what verse the Lord has used to call me to be a pastor, I don't have a verse, I only have what other people have told me, I've prayed for the Lord to call me with a verse, but that has never happened, finally after I've seen the tremendous responsibility a true pastor has I've decided I don't want to be a pastor, I wouldn't make a good pastor and besides I probably won't live another 2-3 years.
Now here's something funny, when we taught through the book of Revelation I asked the Lord how the pastor of the Laodicean church could be one of His, a few months later the pastor retired and the Lord sent a man, the current pastor, from the Long Beach area of California, get this, he even lead worship in a church in Bakersfield CA, my home town, even more bizarre, the church is built on the 75 acres I was co-owner of back in the late 70's, (talk about speaking to me).
We have come full circle for the reason of my question, if there was to be a new church, which we pray for also, the people wouldn't come because it would be built on the Word of God and not manifestations, believe me we've tried teaching them, the response is just a glassy eyed look on their faces, it doesn't penetrate, just bounces off or goes over their heads, ...I truly, truly hate deception and what it does to people.
We just heard last night that in the close family a young man set his mother's house on fire with her asleep in it, she died and then he went home and hung himself, normal everyday occurrences, ...Tahiti isn't like what you see in the travel brochures.
Thanks for listening to me.
People with the gift of pastor don't all lead churches, or minister from some pulpit. They pastor or shepherd people just the same. If God is calling you as a pastor, then begin to pastor. Let Him develop that gifting, or calling. He's the one who calls, and He's the one who equips the called.
Seems to me that is exactly what you are doing already. Keep it up!
Thanks sis for the encouragement, I apologize if it seemed like I was coming across as combative, that was not my intention, you see, that's why I wouldn't make a good pastor,
...what I was trying to do was to get into your head, ...since you believe what you do I was trying to get you to play a hypothetical role, to realize you had mad a mistake and how would you respond to the person that had suffered tragedy because of your mistake.
Sounds like perfect material for God to work with to me..
I don't know if I would look at it like this way.. I would think spiritual discernment can come only from the Lord.. I don't think devil is going to point anyone to the false.. The devil will only want to make the false look as true..
Consider every false "Christian" cult...? Of course the devil tries to destroy the truth with false!
Think about this Rav...how many times does the devil use the ungodly actions of certain "Christians" to defame the faith? We see it all the time when an atheist comes on this forum...they have a list of "Christian" crimes and errors.
Ummm, truthfully, ...that's what I'm afraid of!
I see! But I have made no such mistake.
I started to speak in tongues soon after being baptised in the Holy Spirit, over 40 years ago. It is a wonderful liberating gift.
I believe tongues is an extremely valuable weapon in the prayer warriors armoury. Yes, anyone can pray simplistic "bless me, bless them Lord" type prayers, but what happens when you know you need to go deeper, but lack any real understanding?
That's when tongues are so valuable and that's why God gave that gift and that's why we should make use of it.
Tongues was not given to show others that we are better christians, or that we are closer to God. Its just that we have some better tools to use, and learning to use them properly is important.
Despite not being in church for a long time, my wife and I still use tongues at all times and in all places elsewhere as we pray and battle.
The real problem for believers is the limitation of the human fleshly mind. I have seen people here and elsewhere state openly that they are not prepared to pray things that their mind doesn't understand. Unfortunately they do not realise that their intellectual mind is an enemy of the Holy Spirit, and that such belief immediately puts a great limit on their effectiveness in prayer.
When I don't have a clue what to do, I always start praying in the spirit. That means I pray in tongues, the prayer language that God has given me. The wonder of that gift is that the prayer originates not in my intellectual mind, but in my human spirit which is in communion with the Holy Spirit. Such prayer encompasses things that my brain cannot possibly fathom. As I start praying, I know that things are starting to shift in the heavenlies.
One day a close friend of my wife asked desperately that we pray for a relative who had been diagnosed with a critical heart defect.
We had few facts and didn't know the person, but we started to pray in English and soon reverted into tongues.
This was all in our living room, with me facing the window whilst my wife was on the sofa praying with her eyes completely closed to what was going on with me. Indeed my own eyes were also closed as we prayed.
As we continued using tongues, I suddenly found myself transported in a vision into a very arid place like a primitive desert township with rough single story hovels going down a main street. Everything seemed red dry dusty and parched.
It looked a bit like a western film with a showdown in the high street between the sherif and some criminal. In the vision I could see a vile deathly black figure facing me at the other end. In the vision I was vociferously assaulting this figure with words in tongues, and every time I spoke the figure flinched with pain and retreated whilst ducking and diving to evade the words. However the strangest thing was that as I spoke, I was picking up stones from the street and bombard him with them, as if my words were stones.
Meanwhile, back in my living room, I was physically reaching down to pick up invisible rocks from our carpet and throwing them violently through the window, (my eyes fast closed). The more I threw these word/stones at the demon, the more it retreated out of the town.
Suddenly, my attention was startled by words from my wife, in English this time. "We stone you out of the town!"
I was shocked and asked her what she meant. She related that whilst doing warfare in tongues, she had been transported in a vision into what was obviously the same place as mine. Up to that time I had said nothing and had been completely unaware of what had been going on with my wife, nor she with me.
God had been in command throughout by his spirit working through our two spirits as we battled using tongues.
I have no idea what happened to the subject of our prayers because we did not know him and lived at opposite ends of the country, so we never got any feedback.
Do not under estimate the value or the power of tongues.
Tongues if interpreted can be used in an assembly to bring a word to the body, just like prophesy. If there is no interpreter, then it should not be used to speak outwardly.
Tongues can be used in private and collective worship. As such it doesn't need interpreting cos God understands anyway.
Tongues can be used in general prayer as praying in the spirit, rather than with the mind/intellect.
As already described, tongues can also be used very effectively in spiritual warfare against demonic powers. If we are being led by the spirit we can use tongues to take authority over demons and drive them out. I have done this many times and seen major release from bondage as we have done it.
Ravindran Please forgive me but I can not see this to be 100 percent true at all.
The devil works every single moment to make what is true to look or sound false to Christians.
The devil attacks where the word is being preached that will cause him harm and he does this by convincing christians that it is false doctrine and hersey and so forth and then gets these christians to blast these lies all over the place until more and more Christians are spreading his lies for him.
To think that the devil only wants to make the false look true keeps Christians eyes off of him while he slips through the shadows and does his filthy stinking business. Brother the devil is evil and he is fear and he is the father of lies........but he is not ignorant when it comes to people. It is people who are ignorant of his ways. ( Not directed at you or any one in here) The devil is a master when it comes to twisting and perverting and counterfeiting and camouflaging the written word and ways and things of God.
All I know that when the word is being preached and the name of Jesus is being exalted, Satan is far from it! He can't stand it!
YES thank you.
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Mark 16:15 And he [Jesus]said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
WOULD ANYONE ON THE FORUM LIKE TO OFFER THEMSELVES AS A HIGHER AUTHORITY THAN JESUS HIMSELF ? ...
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.
Why 12 men? Think about it. The number twelve in both the Old and New Testaments. What is Jesus telling us here?
Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
And how are you going to be able to pray in the Spirit (as commanded in the epistles) if you cannot pray in tongues?
I believe in tongues, but the Mark passage cannot be used to say all will speak in tongues, because it says the same thing about contact with poison and snakes occurring without harm, and not all believers have experienced that, (although we know about Paul on the island being bit by a deadly snake without harm). This is speaking of various signs that will follow those that believe, but none of the signs are necessarily universal among all believers.
...the manifestation of the Spirit (given to all) takes more than one form.
I say this for purely exegetical reasons, not to support or refute a doctrinal position. cannot be used to prove or refute all believers speaking in tongues.
There is much confusion concerning the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit '
EVERY true BORN child of God by the Word and the Spirit of God is and has been baptised in the Holy Spirit.
it is a once and never repeated baptism into the BODY of Christ ,
When the church was born on the day of Pentecost the whole room was FILLED with the presence of God the Holy Spirit .
They were then baptised in the holy ghost . Even as a person who is a true BORN child of God is baptised completely by immersion in water .
So then those in the upper room were immersed or baptised in the Holy Ghost.
this a once and never repeated event.
There is then the filling of the Holy Spirit . For the promise is that He shall be WITH you and IN you .
A new BORN baby has life but needs the continual infilling of breath to live that life .
So too does the true BORN child of God need to be filled continually with the Holy Spirit .
The GIFTS are not proof of the indwellign Holy Spirit . It is the FRUITS by which we are known .
Paul says we can have all sorts of the GIFTS but if we have not the fruit (of love) WE are nothing .
boasting in the gifts is to no profit at all for they are for the edification of the people of God and the furtherance of the work and kingdom of God.
"Rejoice not that devils are subject unto you , but rather rejoice that your names are written in the Lambs book of life ."
Those who were filled with the Spirit of God (to over flowing) were filled again at other times as recorded .
as much as we are poured out so then God will pour back in as we seek it and the kingdom of God first and HIS righteousness.
The Holy Spirit is not given to establish our own righteousness but to glorify Christ and bare witness to the death and ressurection of the Lord.
It is God who will establish us .
So the promise is that Holy Spirit has come to ABIDE with us forever . "I will never leave you nor forsake you " says the Lord .
He is also promised to "lead us into all truth" So that we need not be ignorant of that which we are in need of.
IF we lean not upon our own understanding but trust in Him who si the good shepherd of our souls .
Not only must we have the Holy Spirit ,the Holy Spirit must have us also!
For even as Jesus in one Gospel was LED into the wilderness to be tempted . He had the Holy Spirit .
But in another it is written he was DRIVEN into the wilderness ,The Holy Spirit had Him and as much as he was led he was also compelled . and in another place "He must needs go to Samaria"
To have the Holy Spirit but not the Word of God and you will blow up.
If you have the Word of God and not the Spirit of God you will dry up.
But if the Word of God and the Spirit of God abideth in you richly you will grow up.
You justify using uninterpretable tongues because you don't understand what to pray for?
I don't get that. If you don't know what to pray for then pray for direction from GOD along the path GOD would have you take. I do not understand how speaking of things you yourself don't understand helps in supplication or submission to GOD.
How can you proclaim something you admittedly don't understand to be a better tool for man's direction by GOD's will? These things are really illogical and make no good sense in the forms written.
Do you speak in tongues in private or in public? If in public, are there two interpretors?
The mind is in know way the limit of the believer, nor does it work against it. Excessive circular thinking isn't productive, but understanding is key to direction as is communication.
Can you reference scripture for the mind is enemy of Holy Spirit please?
I think you may be confusing ego/pride with mind/productive thought.
Why would you need to pray about things that your mind cannot fathom at least in part?
These are sincere questions as I am honestly curious. I mean no disrespect in my ignorance.
One last question please;
Are there any particular words or sounds that you recall repeating? If so; can you attempt to pronounce them here alphabetically? I can see how praise to GOD and thanks could be in tongues without the need for interpretation in solitude.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.