Reality is subject to God's Word

Discussion in 'Holy Spirit Baptism and Living' started by Cturtle, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. Reality as we know it is subject to the Word of God. Using 2 Corinthians 4:18 we see that the things that we see are temporary. And the things which are not seen are eternal.

    Calling those things which do not exist as though they did is the way God spoke things (the earth and all of creation) into existence. (Romans 4:17). And if you look at the passage in Romans 4 it's how God brought about Issac through Abraham and Sarah. God had to change Abrams name so that He would start speaking and calling himself the father of many nations when he didn't have the promised child yet. And as people began to call him Abraham, he also began to hear father of many nations....and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Ro. 10:17).

    When you call for things that are not (because our job is to imitate our Father and Jesus) your not ignoring the reality that they exist, but you are choosing to believe God's Word over what you see in the natural. You are.setting your faith and sights on what you can see in the spiritual. Hebrews 11:1 says that faith is a substance. And when you read other verses like Ephesians 1:3 and 1 Peter 1:;4 and 2 Peter 1:3-4 we see that everything that we will ever need for our LIFE is stored up or in other words waiting for us in heaven. So God has already set aside everything we need for living this life here on earth. The problem is that many people don't know how to get it to this earth, so they just say that it's reserved for when we get to heaven. But if they understood and believed in what God says, then they would realize that God expects us to be like Jesus was....and speak those things into existence, because they already belong to us.

    Hebrews 4:12 says that the word is alive. And Hebrews 1:14 and Isaiah 55:10-11 and ps 103:20-21 talk about how the angels and God watch over The Word of God to perform it and in essence make what He says come to pass.

    In a video we watched, the gentleman said how he told God that he felt like he was lying, and God told him, how can you be lying when your speaking His Words.

    So the best thing to remember is that by speaking God's Word you are not ignoring reality, but calling for what the Word of God says that already belongs to you, instead of the bad things that the devil is trying to convince you that is all your ever gonna have.

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  3. I am extremely interested in this, Cturtle. .
    I have a very clever scientist friend who would say something very like this from a scientific point of view. He keeps telling everyone he is an firm atheist, and yet he goes to weekly morning Holy Communion. He talks of Heaven as the "implicate order". He never uses the name of Jesus, but calls Him the Nazarene, and avoids any use of the word God. His overall outlook and thoughts are of a Conscious Cosmos, but wouldn't discus panentheism.
    But I can see much that is very similar in his thinking, here, and I shall have to discuss it with him.
    Thank you, Cturtle, for being an agent of The Holy Spirit.
    (Sorry, but something odd happened above).
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  4. #4 Cturtle, Oct 5, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
    Hi smiler,

    Your reply is in with the quote...but it is all good because I quite enjoyed reading it twice!

    Thank you for your compliment. I am so blessed that God is giving you some information to use when discussing this with your friend. It sounds like if you have been praying for this guy...your prayers will be answered, for God has already given this man some wisdom, but because he is not connecting it to the Savior or the Word of God, he has incomplete information.

    Will be praying for God to give you the words to speak and bless your conversation!

    God bless you mightily sir! You are a true gem.

    As a side note..... there is a godly woman who is a neuro scientist. Her name is Dr. Caroline Leaf. She might be a good person to see if your friend will listen to.
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  5. If one were to know the absolute truth of reality (the physical world) and of scripture, we would find exact agreement down to the last sub atomic particle and the least jot and tittle of scripture.

    To place one as more important or pre-eminent than the other is a mistake, which has caused, and continues to cause much grief.

    Look at how the power of God is displayed through the natural world, whether in the unfathomable expanse of the heavens, or the beauty of the natural world. Look at the how many proverbs use the natural world to describe something about God. Look at the part God’s mastery over nature played a part in Moses leading the children of God out of Egypt.

    The problem is that many (not all) scientists think that their observations are all there is. In just the same way, many who study and value scripture think that is the pre-eminent way on knowing what is true.

    But look at Romans 1:19-20

    Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest [it] to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead-- to their being inexcusable.

    Paul is not decrying the ignoring of scripture here. He is decrying that man has ignored the lessons of “things made”.

    Reality, even reality studied by science, is a reflection of its maker, just as we know a lot about the kind of man Paul was by his writings.

    The purpose of general revelation (the Universe) differs from special revelation (Scripture) There are differences in how we approach each, and what we should expect out. Although one may be drawn to the Lord thru the sciences (which was a strong facet in my life), a saving knowledge of the spiritual side is known through scripture.

    If we see our view of the cosmos as at odds with our view of scripture, then we have not properly understood one or the other. Both paths of knowledge require a step of human interpretation and human application, where-in lies the issue.

    Sometimes the final truth cannot be immediately discerned. This is a call to prayer and study (world and word). Sometimes we must wait for resolution to particularly thorny problems.

    None of this is new. We could go through history and point out where the teaching from the pulpit differed from the findings of science, and how that went as the truth became evident, but I don’t think that would be too productive. But note that I said the teaching from the pulpit which means that there was significant interpretation on the part of human expounders.

    Reality came into being as God spoke, and is thus also the word of God.
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  6. Hi Siloam,
    I find what you say above to not be 100 percent true and here is why.

    Scripture tells us satan is god of this world or world system.

    Scripture tells us this world is under the curse.

    There is "your reality"
    Without being born again And Spirit Filled And having your Mind Renewed Daily in The Written Word of God you and Yes born again people are subject unto this so called reality or the world's system.

    Why because they do not walk in the Authority of God and Change what is unto what should be.

    If faith is the Substance of things hoped for.....But Not Yet Seen ....
    Then Faith is the tool used to change what is unto what shall be.

    Reality says , oh well its cold and flue season and ya know they are going to get sick for sure because after all it is just the way it is or reality.

    However.......Faith Calls in Healing or health and changes reality or what is to what it shall be.

    Man dwelling in this life governed by reality is a most dangerous way to live.
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  7. Nope not 100 percent truth.
    The fall of man changed everything.
    When the Light (God) left the garden, everything changed.

    The reality of God's word must be taken hold of and lived out according to His word to make it so in a person's life.

    Yes God's plans will be carried out.
    However this was not what the op was about.
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  8. Yea, that universe being the word of God was perhaps not an appropriate post without going into my thinking along with application, which would take this thread even farther from its original purpose as well as the purpose of my response. I apologize for its inclusion but decline from a retraction.

    My main thesis remains:

    God who use nature to illustrate and demonstrate (it would be difficult to read Psalms or Proverbs without noting His use of the natural world to show His majesty) his love and majesty and tells us in His word that He is to be known through His works, has not set a trap of misleading evidences.

    The laws of nature were created by God and reflect His nature. In general, He is a God who wants to be known and makes His nature known in many ways, including the workings of the universe. I have made allusions in many posts as to how understanding Time as a part of the created universe, made by God, gives insight to several things otherwise more obscure, at least to me. It may be less central to others, but it is integral to how Hew drew me.

    In another example, in one of my recent efforts at gaining a broader understanding of Him through the physical laws of the universe I have been contemplating how of the four classical fundamental forces (gravity, electromagnetism, the weak atomic force, and the strong atomic force), the one that is by far the weakest (gravity) has the greatest apparent effect on the mechanics of the universe. I believe there is a lot to know about Him through understanding things like that.

    So, I think that we should understand that as we pray for miracles, and I am not suggesting that we do not, we are asking Him to set aside the laws that are reflective of His nature. He does love us and I do believe in miraculous answers to prayer, but I also understand that we should not do this without extreme reverence, nor without profound gratitude.

    Please also note that none of what I said implied that a study of the universe is an alternate way of becoming His servant. Our Lord's ministry among us and His paying the price for our iniquity and His resurrection is still the bedrock of understanding the Father, Son and Spirit.
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  9. These 2 quotes of yours are true and I am not arguing this. However this is not what the op is about.

    People and yes born again spirit filled people use reality or The Way It Is to excuse or make themselves look and feel better about their lives.

    They Accept things that happen as their lot in life as if there was no other way. They say well after all that's just the way it is and I just live in reality and Call it like it is.

    That is totally Opposed To The Very Writen Word Of God. It is a lazy and dangerous way to live.

    The things you are referring to would fall under His handy work or His workmanship. These are things He has either created and put into being or designed to flow or operate as. Just like kingdom laws or His way of doing things and that is what the op is about.

    Not one of God's promises to us simply just happens or works on our behalf simply because we are born again. There are kingdom laws at work but we must learn how to use them or another words get qualified to have them operating in our lives.

    People don't get it far to many times. Example just as much as there is the law of gravity there is the law of Faith and Love and so forth.

    Many will throw Romans 6:14 at me here ......For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    But again It is true but not correct here.
    There are different laws governing or at work. God's word is to be as instructions on how He created us to live. These are Kingdom Laws or God's way of doing things.

    Every one of His promises to us depend on His way of doing things.

    Now I am not saying we have to be perfectly doing everything 100 percent correctly But we must be learning how to apply His ways daily in our lives.

    Example.... one can not claim to be walking in Love as commanded if one has ought or unforgivness in their heart. This includes holding grudges and being so easily offended.

    Reality is that we have an adversary that comes to steal, kill and destroy. he is the god of this world and operates within the curse set over this world.

    Reality is ..... if one does not learn how to operate under kingdom law or God's way of doing things, then they are already half defeated.

    The point is....... if you don't learn how to function under kingdom laws then your reality is going to be molded and shaped by the wiles of our enemy the devil and all this world's evil from within the very curse this world is under.

    Sickness and disease and lack and poverty and stress and anger and loss and on and on and on will be a part of your lives for they are from our enemy the devil.

    No Sir, reality is always going to be subject unto change by the written word of God carried out as He has set it forth to do. Still, it won't just happen because one is born again and spirit filled.

    Blessings my loving brother
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  10. Yes, I admit that I was reacting more to the title than the content of the post from our greatly esteamed sister. I beg her forgiveness. I ask yours and that of other readers as well.

    Know that because of my personal history that the unnecessary enmity that seems to exist between some in the scientific circles and some in communities of faith has me more than a little heart-ache.

    Again I appologise to all
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  11. Some time ago, Einstein's colleague, David Bohm, published his theory of a conscious cosmos, having a fundamental basis of thought. Incredibly and remarkably, he included in the Thought, Love. What wonders mathematics can perform !
    Maxwell's research into the behaviour of light reasoned that reality must include time, which is the main difference between our basic understanding of reality, and a timeless, eternal Heaven.
    For me, the quantum behaviour of entangled particles points to the mechanism of fundamental Thought. Every particle of Thought is instantaneously available everywhere. The constant speed of light doesn't come into it, because of the curvature and elasticity of space.
    So our perception of reality is really the Creation that God has Thought and spoken. His thought was "Let there be light", (electromagnetic radiation), and it became a reality. It was the same with the rest of Creation.
    Reality was perfect, and it was only after mankind misunderstood the Love in the Thought, that the knowledge of good and evil became the knowledge of holiness and sin.
    We, as individuals, are not only part of reality, and we reasonably "think God's thoughts after Him" in scientific enquiries, but He has made each of us in His image, imbuing each of us with His creative thought. We have always been part of His Thought. How much of that, and in what manner we use it, may be very different for each of us. We need to accept Jesus's offer of The Comforter, The Holy Spirit, who leads us into all Truth, to think as we should. The reality we experience is dependent on our thoughts, which we can, and must, compare with God's Thoughts.
    For some reason, we have always found it easier to fall into sin (blaming it on the devil, the "ruler of this world"), and unless we use our God-given thought, we remain apart from Him. Heaven is nearer when we use our thought aright.
    But from all this, I must completely understand that my earthly body and all its involvement with its environment, is not my Being. The Being I am is part of God's thought which He brought forth at Creation, in a purposeful and eternal part of Heaven.
    Praise be !
  12. Brother there is no need to apologize However it sure displays the characteristics of Jesus in you.
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