Re-thinking "Job"
- Thread starter Steve Campbell
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You, Jim, and Advocate are my blessed examples of diligence with the scriptures. I love and respect all of you. Disagreements should not alienate one from another. I have a deep respect for the scriptures. When commentators disagree, I pray that I might receive more light from the Holy Spirit. Unity in diversity is sometimes hard to accomplish.
Klub you say very little in a lot. What I mean is you are all over the board with this. What exactly is it you want to say. Yes there are those who become Christians in other countries who die for being a Christian but it does not make them any more or less then any other Christian. It does not make a better testimony either.
Penion you said it brother - disagreeing should not ever go beyond a simple disagreement and not hinder friendship or respect what so ever.
You truly are Blessed my friend
Jim
No silk you are saying that I said this.
Silk I love you but you think to much. We as Born again believers get restored or God brings restoration into our lives constantly. Healing - prosperous in our entire beings and so forth is for us in the here and now. Ok so what is your point with I thought satans name meant
adversary. What does this have to do with what you say here ?
Does not scripture teach us we will be rewarded both here and there silk ?
Does not Jesus tell us He wants us to be prosperous in all we do and are ?
scripture does not teach that we will be prosperous in our wealth or that we will be rich by worldy standards. But we
From previous posts, it seemed as if you were saying that God keeps safety of His people #1
And the testimony of a martyr vs the testimony of the comfortable church goer is more powerful. It shows faith, and the lack of self concern instead of safety and worry.
From previous posts, it seemed as if you were saying that God keeps safety of His people #1
And the testimony of a martyr vs the testimony of the comfortable church goer is more powerful. It shows faith, and the lack of self concern instead of safety and worry.
For me - all my scriptures have to agree and the only promise of well being and happiness on earth comes with Christ's 2nd Coming. Otherwise:
Job_19:22
Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
Job_19:28
But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me?
Psa_7:1
Shiggaion of David, which he sang unto the LORD, concerning the words of Cush the Benjamite. O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:
Psa_7:5
Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.
Psa_10:2
The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
Psa_31:15
My times are in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.
Psa_35:3
Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.
Psa_35:6
Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
Psa_69:26
For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
Psa_71:11
Saying, God hath forsaken him: persecute and take him; for there is none to deliver him.
Psa_83:15
So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.
Psa_119:84
How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me?
Psa_119:86
All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.
Jer_17:18
Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.
Jer_29:18
And I will persecute them with the sword, with the famine, and with the pestilence, and will deliver them to be removed to all the kingdoms of the earth, to be a curse, and an astonishment, and an hissing, and a reproach, among all the nations whither I have driven them:
Lam_3:66
Persecute and destroy them in anger from under the heavens of the LORD.
Mat_5:11
Blessed are ye, whenmenshall revile you, and persecuteyou,and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat_5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat_10:23
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Mat_23:34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: andsomeof them ye shall kill and crucify; andsomeof them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecutethemfrom city to city:
Luk_11:49
Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, andsomeof them they shall slay and persecute:
Luk_21:12
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecuteyou,deliveringyouup to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Joh_5:16
And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh_15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Rom_12:14
Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Job_19:22
Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
Job_19:28
But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me?
Psa_7:1
Shiggaion of David, which he sang unto the LORD, concerning the words of Cush the Benjamite. O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:
Psa_7:5
Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.
Psa_10:2
The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
Psa_31:15
My times are in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.
Psa_35:3
Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.
Psa_35:6
Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
Psa_69:26
For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
Psa_71:11
Saying, God hath forsaken him: persecute and take him; for there is none to deliver him.
Psa_83:15
So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.
Psa_119:84
How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me?
Psa_119:86
All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.
Jer_17:18
Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.
Jer_29:18
And I will persecute them with the sword, with the famine, and with the pestilence, and will deliver them to be removed to all the kingdoms of the earth, to be a curse, and an astonishment, and an hissing, and a reproach, among all the nations whither I have driven them:
Lam_3:66
Persecute and destroy them in anger from under the heavens of the LORD.
Mat_5:11
Blessed are ye, whenmenshall revile you, and persecuteyou,and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat_5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat_10:23
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Mat_23:34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: andsomeof them ye shall kill and crucify; andsomeof them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecutethemfrom city to city:
Luk_11:49
Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, andsomeof them they shall slay and persecute:
Luk_21:12
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecuteyou,deliveringyouup to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Joh_5:16
And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh_15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Rom_12:14
Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
I said in all area's and yes scriptures teaches us this.
Thats great silk you pulled a bunch of scripture and put them together to say hey we are not that well off here on earth and so forth. So what again exactly is the point of these scriptures for any way ?
So in the real world, why are there poor believers who make it by with nothing.
I understand that they are prosperous by spiritual standards, but by no means are they physically prosperous.
To me @Fish Catcher Jim, the answer to your question(s) seem obvious but your version of scripture contrasts with the way the world has treated believers from OT to NT. It smacks of Word of Faith and Prosperity preaching, along with Charismatics. For example Joel Osteen wrote a book "Your Best Life Now" (only if your afterlife is going to be hell). These movements have spawned a lot of heresy, IMO, and mislead good people. You might want to look at an ex follower writes http://www.northforest.org/ProtestantErrors/WordFaith.html .
There are answers to your questions to Job and other analysis if you would but look.
You are welcome to follow scripture as you see best but I make my remarks for the silent reader, so they have the benefit of both viewpoints. I don't expect to change yours and as always, I pray for all of us, including you.
There are answers to your questions to Job and other analysis if you would but look.
You are welcome to follow scripture as you see best but I make my remarks for the silent reader, so they have the benefit of both viewpoints. I don't expect to change yours and as always, I pray for all of us, including you.
They get by or make it by - hmmm that isnot saying much. To answer your question because they understand propsering in all area's such as you do. You have yet to gain a revelation of understanding in this area.
There is biblical principle or kingdom laws that govern this. They wont work just because you are saved. We must activate these laws by doing what is told to us in His word. If you have no understanding of the power of words then you wont grasp biblical prosperity or a lot of things.
1. What good loving parent is not obsessed with their children's salvation and future? I have nothing but respect for Job if he feared for his kids.
2. God is not evil if He tests us. God put satan and every fallen angel on earth with Adam and Eve for a reason other then testing them?
God has killed many, but He is not evil for allowing / doing it. He knew He was with Job / Job was trusting in Him through it. If Job was losing his faith / God causing spiritual death, it would be a different story.
I do believe God is eager to put us all through trials and tribulations. Not to break us. Not to test if we are His. Rather for us and Him to gauge the depth of our devotion. Job knows what he endured for God. God knows what Job endured for Him... for all eternity.
Imagine you knew your wife was tempted with adultery like no other and she resisted it like no other. If everything was smooth and perfect there would be no growth toward God.
We grow in faith in God. Not faith in everything being perfect. God being able to do anything / make everything perfect is a given. It takes no faith.
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Got it, so all poor people who are saved just have yet to grasp this "power" and are lacking in biblical understanding?
Silk I am not nor have I ever been angry or upset. I trust that you and I can go back and forth without all the shallow hurt feelings and such. I had always valued this about you. So thank you for that.
Silk you and many others I see in here placing charismatics as some new movement or such and some even say they are nothing but hersey talkers. I said some... However I looked it up and i found this.......
Charismatic Christianity (also known as Spirit-filled Christianity) is a form of Christianity that emphasizes the work of the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts, and modern-day miracles.
So this is the person(s) that scare believers into saying such shameful things about other brethren ?
From what I just saw on line looking for what you quoted Joel as saying is not correct.
I understand you "think" that ministries that teach about faith for life or walking by faith is some false movement and that is your right to believe however you wish. But when you compare what many teach to scriptures there is nothing false. What I have found false is what people say they teach and how people grasp what they teach.
All this judging and putting down on servants of God in here sent me to do some digging of my own. Funny how when you listen to a complete unedited message - you never hear what people claim they said. The other funny thing is - One can take any pastors (even yours) sermons and clip bits and pieces of it and make it say some mighty strange stuff. The media is a pro at this.
I have 2001 messages in here and you are welcome to go through them all or you can take my word on this - I have not ever once said I followed any one or belonged to any particular group but some who are not in here any more started claiming I was with this or that. Yes I stick up for servants of God. So people say I follow them. No one ever asked me. lol
There are servants of God in which I would not even open their mail if I got some from them but I will not put them down or talk bad about them. God does not take kindly to us bad mouthing His servants even if we think they are not.
Truth be told I see titles such as denominations as a huge waste of time. There is one God and One Son and One Holy Spirit. There is one word of God. It is that simple and all these different doctrines and such are a joke. Why do I say a joke because to bring forth any doctrine other then the written word of God means things have been taken away or added.
This church groups doctrine believes this way and that one believes that way and so forth.. It simply is a joke. The body of Christ should flow in unity and be united but NO man has to have things in mans limited boxed up understanding.
The one thing I wish I could actually sit and watch is the reactions from so many believers who think they are right on target with His written word get humbled quickly and learn they are wrong. So many pastors and teacher who have put down on other ministries and types of people are in for a huge awakening come going home day. Sure would like to see this. lol
There will be people sitting on the Fathers lap in which the church pushed out because they were not like them or did not fit into the pre-mind-made-up mind set they have on things.
All I am going to say is this - to them that feel the need to judge the brethren and ministries - be very careful what you say.
God Bless
Jim
There's a difference between God's servants, and false teachers. Those (myself included) who rebuke leaders such as Osteen, do not casually throw it around. It is through solid evidence that what he says contradicts the (true) Gospel message.
Klub,
Why do you think you need to do this ? Are you so sure of your self to stand before God claiming that Brother Joel is a false teacher ? If you say yes - well I dont have time to get into that. Your on your own there.
Another thing - those you call false teachers are God servants - no matter if you think so or not. You are not Gods Judge here on earth nor do you have any right to do so. Who are you to judge who belongs to God or not ? Further more who are you to Judge what they teach when God is more then able to take care of His own.
There have been many who have misused their calling and have fallen and faded away and some totally repent and come back. However it does not seem that God is taking Joel out now does it ? I mean it seems his church is doing well.
One last thing- becareful when you say (( solid evidence that what he says contradicts the (true) Gospel message. )) This means you are the authority on what is correct and what is not and None of us can claim that title.
Judge your life and actions and what you hear and what you say and do. Thats your job.
God Bless
Klub,
Why do you think you need to do this ? Are you so sure of your self to stand before God claiming that Brother Joel is a false teacher ? If you say yes - well I dont have time to get into that. Your on your own there.
Another thing - those you call false teachers are God servants - no matter if you think so or not. You are not Gods Judge here on earth nor do you have any right to do so. Who are you to judge who belongs to God or not ? Further more who are you to Judge what they teach when God is more then able to take care of His own.
There have been many who have misused their calling and have fallen and faded away and some totally repent and come back. However it does not seem that God is taking Joel out now does it ? I mean it seems his church is doing well.
One last thing- becareful when you say (( solid evidence that what he says contradicts the (true) Gospel message. )) This means you are the authority on what is correct and what is not and None of us can claim that title.
Judge your life and actions and what you hear and what you say and do. Thats your job.
God Bless
KJ Hello,
What good loving parent is not obsessed with their children's salvation and future? I have nothing but respect for Job if he feared for his kids.
It is one thing to be concerned and another to worry and fear. The written word of God tells us so many times to not worry or fear. Does this mean unless it is about your kids ?
2. God is not evil if He tests us. God put satan and every fallen angel on earth with Adam and Eve for a reason other then testing them?
God test us ? How is this ? Not through trials and persecution for those do not come from God.
Yes our Faith or our growth is tested in these - for it show who we really are or what we are made of.
God did not put satan any place to test us. Where did you get this idea from ?
God has killed many, but He is not evil for allowing / doing it. He knew He was with Job / Job was trusting in Him through it. If Job was losing his faith / God causing spiritual death, it would be a different story.
This makes no real sense here KJ
I do believe God is eager to put us all through trials and tribulations. Not to break us. Not to test if we are His. Rather for us and Him to gauge the depth of our devotion. Job knows what he endured for God. God knows what Job endured for Him... for all eternity.
Kj then by what you say here - well it makes what Jesus said and recorded in John 16:33 kind of wrong then huh lol well we know Jesus did not speak lies so what you claim above can not be 100 percent correct now can it. Behold KJ ..
John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in ME ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation; BUT be of good cheer; I Have Overcome the world.
So we see two things here KJ
1...In Jesus we have Peace
2...In the World we have tribulation
Easy read ....In Jesus is Peace - In the world is tribulation.
Imagine you knew your wife was tempted with adultery like no other and she resisted it like no other. If everything was smooth and perfect there would be no growth toward God.
Now that is a far stretch- so if she fell there would be growth ? We grow through His word and learning to put His word into practice. Pain-suffering-sin-tribulation-trials- satans attacks do not promote growth.
We grow in faith in God. Not faith in everything being perfect. God being able to do anything / make everything perfect is a given. It takes no faith
Sure God being God could do anything He wanted BUT HE WONT. He is bound by His word.
To walk upright before God takes faith for we can not please God out side of faith and please do not come back with chistiananity 101 faith in God or faith that God is God.
Have a blessed day KJ
Jim
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