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Questions

Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by SueJLove, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. Not sure where to put this, so feel free to move it if this is not the right place:

    I have some questions I just need to ask. Some of you may reject me after this. That is ok. Why do so many who profess Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives support the physical nation of Israel as though somehow the Jews are still God’s chosen people and that Jerusalem is still the Holy City? They are not! It is not! Where in the New Testament did Christ Jesus or the apostles teach us that we should give our support to the physical nation of Israel and to the physical city of Jerusalem? In Galatians 4 we read:

    (Abraham’s) “His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

    “These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother…

    “Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does Scripture say? ‘Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.’ Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.”

    What if you are being deceived? What if you have been led to believe that you are to give your support to the physical nation of Israel and that, unknowingly, you may, in fact, be supporting Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet? What if the present state of Israel is the Little Horn of Daniel? I don’t know. I am just asking. Is it possible that you have bought into the lies of Satan, and that you are supporting Israel because of a lie? Would you be willing to take this to the Lord in prayer and to ask him? Would you not want to know? I would.

    Another question: Who gave birth to the present nation of Israel? Was it God? No! It was Satan! – the USA, UN, N.W.O., and the Rothschilds. See this article as a possible explanation of why the present state of Israel was created - http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_zion107.htm. [I cannot verify everything written in this article to be true, but I share it because so much of this that is written here bears out to be true in what God has revealed to me by his Spirit over the past 8 years, and he has confirmed it in many ways.]
     
  2. Remove this idea John Calvin planted so many years ago. I'm not sure you'll accept what the scriptures say and that's your choice, but here's the verse you requested...

    Romans 11:16-27 (KJV)
    For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    God did raise up Israel, the nation, as promised:

    Hosea 6:2 (KJV)
    After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

    The "two days" began in 63 BC and ended 1938, exactly when the Nazi's started persecuting the Jews. And in case you don't want to do that study, I've done that already: http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/new-timeline.37164

    Isaiah 66:8 (KJV)
    Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

    And in the last days, 144,000 male virgin Jews...

    Revelation 7:4 (KJV)
    And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    And if you don't believe this then you're not part of the Bride of Christ and will go through the tribulation, but only 144,000 males will be sealed during that time. Unless of course you don't believe that either...

    Then you need to do some modern historical work (since about the year 2000 'til today) and look at the cause and effect rule... what is that?

    Genesis 12:3 (KJV)
    And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    Too lazy to do it? Here I've done it for all:

    http://abdicate.net/blog/?p=80

    http://abdicate.net/blog/?p=472

    Most of the bullets are actual headlines so Google can help you with that... if you dare try to understand...
     
    christianbacktobasics likes this.
  3. The way I see it, national Israel was given temporal blessings and promises (i.e. relating to life here on earth), while we are given eternal blessings and promises (i.e. we're strangers and pilgrims here).

    God said Israel would always be a nation as long as the sun, moon, and stars give their light:

    Thus says Yahweh, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, so that its waves roar; Yahweh of Armies is his name: If these ordinances depart from before me, says Yahweh, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. Thus says Yahweh: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says Yahweh. (Jeremiah 31:35-37).

    I see the sun rose today, therefore Israel is still retains its national identity before God. This doesn't mean they are righteous or have eternal life. Salvation is still by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. But I believe one day most, if not all, Israel will be saved. (In Ezekiel's dry-bones prophecy, we're at the point where the bones have pretty much come together, but there is no life in them.)

    Some transfer the promises of Israel away from Israel and to the Church. But if that is the case, then God can just as well transfer the promises He made to us away from us also, and I can no longer trust God to keep His promises to me.
     
    Abdicate and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  4. That passage you quote from Jeremiah... Who are the seed (offspring) of Israel? Who was the promised seed of Abraham? Jesus Christ. So, we who are in Christ Jesus are the offspring of Israel. Romans 9:8 says: "In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring." Consider this:

    The physical nation of Israel today is not to be confused with the nation of Israel of old. The nation of Israel of old was God’s holy people, set apart for God and for his service, although they certainly did not always live like holy people. Still, they belonged to God. He created them for his purposes. From them would come Jesus Christ, their Savior, into the world to save sinners, yet they, as a nation, rejected their promised Messiah, the seed of Abraham, and they had him crucified on a cross to die as though he was a common criminal, although he had done no wrong. So they, as a people, were cut off from the vine due to unbelief (See Romans 11). They can be grafted back in through belief, though. Yet, some Jews have believed in Jesus Christ as their Messiah, Savior and Lord. Amen!

    Jesus Christ, through his death and resurrection, made believing Jews and Gentiles one in Christ. He destroyed the barrier between the two groups. “His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility… For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit” (See Eph. 2:14-18). So, you see, God only has one chosen people now, and they are the true church, the Body of Christ, whether Jew or Gentile by physical birth. Yet, we are no longer divided Jew and Gentile, but we are divided Christian and non-Christian; saved and unsaved (See Gal. 3:26-29).

    “For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise. These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother…

    “Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.” ~ Gal. 4:22-31

    It is critical that we get this in order for us to truly comprehend what is going on in the world and in the Middle East today! The physical nation of Israel today is not of God! It is of Satan! Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of their lives do not worship the God of Abraham. They are antichrist! They are not the children of promise. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ are the children of promise and heirs of God. The physical nation of Israel today is no different from any other nation created of men. They are of Hagar, so they are no different from the Arab nations. Do we get this? They are the “Gentiles” now! And, they are opposed to God and to his Son Jesus Christ, just like they were at the time they killed the Son of God. So, why do Christians support them?
     
  5. Revelation 12:17: "Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus."
     
  6. As I said 144,000 male virgin Jews...
     
  7. the offspring are christians, those who are adopted in. If you read the whole chapter 12 its obvious the woman is israel.. and the earth helped the woman and opened up swallowing the flood water from the beasts mouth. The flood water is the antichrists army.
     
  8. The 490 years promised to them in Daniel is not yet up. That is the bottom line. They still have seven years due to them. Supporting them is supporting God. Matt 25:40 is talking about those that help the Jews in the tribulation. When you consider these two facts, it should be obvious that helping them now is still a good thing.

    It doesn't matter. Fact is they have their nation back. Does God not achieve His will simply because there are no God fearing nations? We also know that God uses the devil, otherwise he would not be on earth.
     
    christianbacktobasics likes this.
  9. Yes, Messianic Jews... if you'd read all of Revelation you'd see that...
     
  10. LOL.
    you are assuming I have not read all of the book of revelation. There is nothing in revelation that backs up what you say. if you had just read the next chapter (13) you would know that I was not asking you, I was telling you.
     
  11. Repent of your bad attitude, false accusations and flat out ignorance!

    Here's your proof (you should do your own homework!!! :cautious: ) :

    12k from 12 tribes of ISRAEL servants of God!

    [Rev 7:3-4 KJV] 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    Messianic Jews standing with Jesus

    [Rev 14:1 KJV] 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

    Virgin Males

    [Rev 14:1, 4 KJV] 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. ... 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
     
  12. Boy this is an interesting thread, I'm assuming it's due to the recent flare ups in the middle-east? If I could take it from a slightly different perspective from the book of Ruth if I could? The Book of Ruth was a foreshadow of the relationship we would have today with Jesus Christ (a Jew). Like Ruth, we are not of the nation of Israel (God's Chosen people) however Ruth married a Jew (Boaz) and her bloodline reached all the way through to Jesus. In a like manner, we have came into union with Jesus Christ as gentiles and have been GRAFTED IN to God's chosen people by our marriage to Christ, so that we might have an inheritance. The question of whether the Jews are God's chosen people can only be found through much study and to say they are not now, would discredit many aspects of the scriptures rendering them as lies. Hope this adds to the conversation but not fuel to the fire!
     
  13. So... For Sue...

    What do you do with Micah 5:3
    Therefore, Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites... (NIV)

    Therefore, will He (God) give them (Israel) up, until the time that she which travaileth (The Woman who brings forth the Man child in Revelation) hath brought forth, then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel ... (KJV if you prefer)

    No doubt, Micah 5:2 you are probably pretty familiar with....

    So.... Whose brethren? I will argue that in this context - the "Brethren" are the "Brethren" of the Messiah..... (Mark 3:32-34, John 20:17, and others) and what happens? At some point - they will be REJOINED to the Children of Israel..... Notice how it is NOT the other way around... There is no claim that the Children of Israel will be rejoined into the Body of Christ......

    We are already starting to see this happening..... Look at the rise in "Messianic Fellowships" within the last 10 or so years.....

    We are seeing more Christians than ever in LONG time celebrating Jewish feasts and fasts because God is dragging them to do it and they have NO idea why God has them doing it or even what the "holiday" is all about.... All they know is that for whatever reason - God says "Do this now" - and so they do it....

    Now.. Certainly... Modern Israel is a faithless nation... Modern Judaism is a train wreck..... There is no mistaking that.... but that was Prophesied in many places..... that "Faithless Israel" would be regathered and THEN God would bring them back to faith....
     
  14. But... I will say this one last thing and shut up....

    If God is calling you to have nothing to do with Israel - then follow God.... You aren't responsible to answer to any of us for your own obedience to God....

    This is not central to our salvation....

    Thanks
     
  15. I am not versed in the Micah passage, so I will reserve that for another time when I have had time to study it to see what it really teaches.

    Yet, I believe what you are suggesting here is directly in conflict with the teaching of Paul in the whole of the book of Galatians, as well as in Romans 9-11, and in other passages referenced previously. No one should start celebrating the feasts of another religion, which Judaism is, especially not knowing what their holidays are about, believing God (of heaven and earth) is telling them to do so. This contradicts the whole of scripture. God warned his people all throughout scripture against following the ways of other religions. Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY, and only those who believe in him as Lord and Savior of their lives are the children of the promise. The way of the cross of Christ is the only hope of salvation and path to heaven. Judaism does not teach Jesus Christ as the only way, so we should not follow their customs and religious practices (see the book of Galatians).

    Yet, since my other thread on this subject was locked due to a heated debate by CFS members, I suspect, I would ask that we refrain from further debate on this specific topic and that you just prayerfully consider that what you are suggesting here is contrary to the teachings in Galatians and other New Testament passages previously cited. Here is the link to the other thread (closed): http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/very-concerned.39495/. Thank you for respecting my wishes.
     

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