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Questions About The Beasts In Daniel And Revelation?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Ben Douglas, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. Ben Douglas

    Ben Douglas New Member

    Hi all, my first question is...do the four Beasts of Daniel 7:1-7 which have a total of seven heads between them with the fourth and last Beast having ten horns, represent the same historical world powers, past, present or future, as the Beast in Revelation 13:1- 10 which also so has seven heads and ten horns?

    Thank you for your response.
  2. Glomung

    Glomung Well-Known Member

    Hello Ben, Yep, the beast in Daniel with 10 horns is the same as the beast in Revelation.
    The beast with 7 heads and 10 horns represents the New World Order, which is in process of being
    built as we speak, the UN is the center of it.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. LightofTabor

    LightofTabor Inactive

    Glomung,

    Perhaps you should qualify your claim about the NWO and the UN with "it is my opinion that...".
  4. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    Good morning Ben. You have posed a very good question and you will no doubt get many differant answers. I am happy to give you my understanding on this.

    FIRST of all. The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ can not be understood correctly without a knowledge of the book of Daniel. Daniel was told to shut up and seal his book until the time of the end and then John is told the Revelation by the Lord Jesus which is actually the "un-folding" of the book of Daniel. Having said that allow me to demonstate the following comparison between Daniel's beast and the beast of Rev. 13 and then you can decise for yourself.........................

    Daniels 4th beast of Chapter 7 Rev. Chapter 13
    Comes up out of the sea (7:3) Comes up out of the sea (13:1)Has 7 heads (13:1)

    Ten heads--Ten Kings (7:7,24) Ten Horns- Ten Kings (13:1,17:12)

    Another Horn (Antichrist) The beast as a person (19:20)
    becomes a dominant ruler becomes a dominant ruler
    (7:24-26) (17:12-13)

    Like a leopard (13:2)

    Stamped with the feet (7:7) Feet of a bear (13:2)

    Great iron teeth (7:7) Mouth of a lion (13:2)

    Scarlet color (17:3)

    Blasphemous (7:25) Blasphemous (13:5)

    Persecutes saints (7:21) Persecutes saints (13:7)

    Power for a time, times and a Power for 42 months (3 1/2 years)
    dividing of a time. (13:5)
    (1 + 2 + 1/2= 3 1/2 years) (7:25)

    Defeated by God who then Defeated by God who then sets up
    sets up the Kingdom
    (7:21-22;26-27) the KIngdom (19:11-20:6)

    Daniel, in chapters 7 & 8 uses various "beasts" (wild animals) proved to be great empires often headed by certain individuals.
    The horns atop the beasts represented various kings of those empires. In fact, both Daniel 7:24 and Revelation 17:12 tell us plainly that the hoens represent KINGS.

    Thus here in Revelation 13, John is seeing and end-time empire rise up out of the political struggels amid the nations---for it is an empire that we have seen
    before in the past prophetic visions of the Scriptures!! IT IS THE FOURTH BEAST of DANIEL 7.

    I hope this is what you were wanting to know about and that it blesses you!
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Glomung

    Glomung Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I have done enough research to know the aims of the UN and related organizations
    so that it is not "a claim" but a relating of known facts. This has been in the plans for
    more than a century. In 5 years or less there will not be a single sovereign nation on the planet.
    Here in the US, our foreign policy is determined by the CFR, our fiscal policy is determined by international
    banks, our military is used to further the policies of the Bilderburgers, our Constitution is ignored, our
    "liberties" are eroding daily. If you can't see what's going on it's due to wilfull blindness.

    "We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent."


    James Paul Warburg appearing before the Senate on 7th February 1950
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    I understand what Glomung is saying.

    Not only will there be a "beast" who is the anti-christ there will also be a BEAST SYSTEM which the Scripture describes as the "Revived Roman Empire".
    The EMPIRE or if you will as Glomung stated...NWO (which I also subscribe to) is the a 10 nation confederacy over which the anti-christ will assert his power over the rest of the world.
    He will do so so that the mind of the anti-christ (person--11th horn) becomes synonymous with the mind of the entire evil Beast empire.

    That is not an opinion but the clear Word of God from Daniel and Revelation. NO.....the words NEW WORLD ORDER are not n the Bible. Neither is RAPTURE or TRINITY but they all come under the doctrine of "IMPLIED TRUTH".

    Rev. 13:3-7........
    And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

    Those verses tell us that there will be some type of universal dominion, and that the A/C will eventually have world control. The 7 heads then must represent a dominion over all of the geographical regions of the globe. Now the fact is that that are SEVEN land masses on the earth. It seems clear then to me at least that this final NWO or Revived Roman Empire will be controlled by the A/C for the purpose of wold domination
    • Like Like x 1
  7. LightofTabor

    LightofTabor Inactive

    I respect your knowledge, but when it comes to interpreting the Book of Revelation, we ought to always remain humble with our interpretations.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    Question my friend...........By the "humble", are you suggesting that we do not express what God has revealed to us???

    Just asking!
  9. LightofTabor

    LightofTabor Inactive

    Of course not. I'm only suggesting that because the Book of Revelation is highly cryptic, and because it has been so often misinterpreted (especially when it comes to trying to correlate current events with prophecy) we should humbly recognize that our interpretations may be incorrect. We should not speak matter-of-factly about how the United Nations is the beast, for instance.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Ben Douglas

    Ben Douglas New Member

    Thank you all for your comments, there is something in them all that 'resonates' with me. There are also some points that I'm not so sure of.

    But let me first attempt the correlation according to my present understanding what Kings/Empires/Powers the seven heads represent...

    The first head represents Babylon Empire...past.
    The second was Persia/Medes Empire......past.
    The third, fourth, fifth, and sixth was the Greek Empire of Alexander from which split into four , of which the first was the Greek, the second was Assyria, the third was Egypt, and the fifth was Rome....past (Rome was the sixth head as it was in power at the time of Jesus and the time of the revelation to John, for we read in Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    So the seventh head is now and it has ten horns.

    But before we get into details of the seventh head and ten horns, let us revisit Daniel and Revelation with respect to an apparent anomaly associated with the seventh head.

    Major draws out attention to the little horn that took over power from three of the horns,...Daniel 7:20-22 "And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    Does not this 'little horn' of Daniel represent the same 'authority' as that last beast that arose in the presence of the seventh Head in Revelation 13:11 - 18 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. ?

    Now I know that Major makes the case that this little horn/beast referred to in Daniel is a man,..the anti-Christ, but on my reading it seems to be a power like all other horns/beasts, so I'm not yet convinced it is a human being, though I am still open to any reasoning that is persuasive. Now so far as I know, the actual term 'Antichrist' comes up in the Bible only in the letters of John, and in context appears to represent a person or people as it is used in the plural also, and that these type of people, anti-Christs already existed at that time. See1 John 21:10, 1 John 2:18, 1 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7



    Lets discuss this to get some common ground before moving on to the here and now, the Seventh Head, ten horns, and it's auxiliary power.
  11. Ben Douglas

    Ben Douglas New Member

    Sorry, past edit time but in....."of which the first was the Greek, the second was Assyria, the third was Egypt, and the fifth was Rome...." of my above post, obviously it was the fourth of the four that was Rome, couldn't be fifth..:).
  12. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    But IF we as studens of Scripture do not speak matter of factly about what we believe God is saying to us, do we not then quence the Holy Spirits work in us as believers?

    I do understand exactly what you are saying though. The key I believe is that every single person is able to reject or accept what he reads about prophecy. Now sometimes that is very easy to do.
    Some people simple do not have the Biblical knowledge to express their thinking on Biblical things and those are quickly rejected by most of us because those who diligently and right divide the Word of God are able to know hearsy when it is presented. Other times it requires more in depth Bible study and BINGO! Some one elses's hearsy leads us to do more study of God's Word to find the tuth.

    IF...IF Daniel did not speak matter of factly about Jeremiah's prophecy of the 70 years captivity, would he have been incorrect to keep it to himself?

    The bottom line I think is that as humans we love a mystery!!!

    Major out!
  13. Glomung

    Glomung Well-Known Member

    Yes, there is no doubt that Revelations is cryptic. However, in Daniel's prophecies a horn regularly represents a man.
    The anti-Christ, is the same as the "son of Perdition" who is described in some detail in Daniel.
    23 “And in the latter time of their kingdom,
    When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
    A king shall arise,
    Having fierce features,
    Who understands sinister schemes.
    24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
    He shall destroy fearfully,
    And shall prosper and thrive;
    He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
    25 “Through his cunning
    He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;[c]
    And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
    He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
    He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
    But he shall be broken without human means.[d]
    26 “And the vision of the evenings and mornings
    Which was told is true;
    Therefore seal up the vision,
    For it refers to many days in the future.

    and also "Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come except there
    come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

    The "falling away" is happening now.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    Lets do that my friend!!

    So the question in point is .............
    "I know that Major makes the case that this little horn/beast referred to in Daniel is a man,..the anti-Christ, but on my reading it seems to be a power like all other horns/beasts, so I'm not yet convinced it is a human being".

    Lets see what we can do with this shall we?

    Daniel 7:24-25.........
    And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and shall be diverse from the first, and shall subdue three kings.
    And HE shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

    "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth uttering great boasts...
    21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them."

    Zech. 11.17............
    "Woe to the worthless shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword will be on his arm and on his right eye! His arm will be totally withered, and his right eye will be blind."
    2 Thess. 2:3.......
    "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

    Now, NO ONE can make anyone believe somehing that that have already decided upon. All I or anyone else can do is give the Scriptures to you and then YOU ask the Holy Spirit of God to make them clear to you. YOU must make the decision based upon the Bible evidence presented.

    IF you take the time to look up "HE" in the Hebrew and MAN in the Greek I believe you find that that are interpreted as "masculine-singular". That means a PERSON is in view.
    The antichrist IMHO is a real person, a human being who himslf will be empowered by Satan.........
    Revelation 13:2 tells us...........
    "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."
    The A/C will be a man empowered by Satan and HE will rule over a BEAST, Anti-christ system which IMO will be the Revived Roman Empire. The 2nd BEAST, also a human being (Rev. 13:12)
    will be the "religious" leader who will force the world to accept the mark of the beast or die.
    So then, just as we have a Holy Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in the last days of the Tribulation Period we will have an UN_HOLY Trinity of the .....
    Satan = Father..............Anti-christ=Son.............the False Prophet-UN-holy spirit.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Ben Douglas

    Ben Douglas New Member

    Ok Glomung and Major, I defer to you on the question of the 'little horn'/'beast with two horns like a lamb' as being a person/anti-Christ for now, while I submit to the Holy Spirit for the Grace to make it more clear to me.

    So where then are we in the state of play in the context of end times, when it comes to the seventh head with ten horns?

    Fwiw, my own present understanding makes me inclined to 'see' Europe as it,...the primary nations that comprise it have had a world dominant roll in the world due to their military, economic, educational, technological, scientific, political, and linguistic influence and their global colonization structure. I'm thinking for example, England, Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Austria, and Italy.

    In any event I'm inclined to think that the movement towards a one world order is primarily one that involves the European community, and of course ultimately involves the integration of those global nations sympathetic to the idea, which may include USA, Canada, Australia, etc..
  16. Glomung

    Glomung Well-Known Member

    You will remember what is said about this beast 23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    The realm we are speaking of is not limited to Europe but encompasses the entire Earth. The UN has divided the world into
    10 "Administrative Areas", each of these is one of the "toes of iron mixed with miry clay", each will have one Administrator,
    who will have absolute authority "after spending 1 hour with the anti-Christ".

    Things to keep an eye out for:
    rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem and renewal of the daily sacrifice, they already have a "practice temple" outside Jerusalem where they are training Rabbis
    the finalization of the "World Court" giving the UN complete authority to create laws which affect everyone anywhere
    creation of more regional unions like the European Union
    increase in pointless warfare all over the world, Iran seems to be the target right now

    the next few years is going to be very interesting
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    Good questions Ben. God only knows where we are on His prophetic time clock.

    I would say however that the study of the "End Times" is reaching a fever pitch. It seems that the majority of the world feels as if something big is just over the horizon.
    We must allways be very careful in setting dates for end time events. While I do not believe we can know the dat of Christ's return, we can know the season by l;ooking around us at what is going on when compared to Biblical prophecy.

    Having said that and speaking only for myself, I personally believe that the antichrist is a human being and that he is alive today. The next event IMO on God's time table will be the Rapture of Believers which can happen at any moment. There is NOTHING prophectically that needs to take place except the Rapture. Then all the things predicted in Daniel and the Revelation after chapter 4:1 can begin to take place.

    YES......all the events Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 and 25 have taken place at one point or another but never have they ALL come together at the same time as we see them now. The second event which makes it all real is the Jewish people being re-established in the Promised Land on May 14, 1948. THAT IS THE REAL KEY TO END TIME PROPHECY.

    Things the Bible predicts are in place today and we are seeing the four horsemen begin to ride IMO.

    STARVATION is common all over the world.
    WARS are being contested all over the world.
    A NEW WORLD ORDER is being put into place as we speak today.
    THE ECONOMIES of the world are all struggeling to survive.
    NUCLEAR weapons make destruction possible on a world wide scale.
    HOMOSEXUALITY is now accepted as a life style which speaks to the morality of the world.
    ABORTION is accepted worldwide.

    I can go on and on but I think you will agree that all of these things happening at one time speaks to something BIG IS ON THE WAY.

    YES, my friend Glomung is absolutly correct about the NEW JEWISH TEMPLE. The "Council of 400" has been training priests in Temple ordinances for about 20 years.

    When Israel attacks Irans nuclear positions, and they will.......keep your eyes of the Temple of the Dome of The Rock.

    Dr. Linus Pauling, winner of Nobel Prizes in 1954 and 1963, has said he believes the greatest catastrophe in the world is approaching. This looming catastrophe might well result in a world war which could destroy civilization and spell the end of the human race. Well he is wrong about the end of the human race but he is right that there is something coming!!

    Well you asked and there it is. This is my opinion based on what I have be able to learn from the Scriptures now for about 50 years. Some will agree and some will not agree.
    I do not argue about it, I just believe it!!!!

    Thanks for asking.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    Amen brother!!!!
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Ben Douglas

    Ben Douglas New Member

    I am generally in agreement with what you are both saying, it is just so unambiguously obvious to souls who have been observing the deteriorating state of the world in the context of those aspects alluded to by Major,..and much more.

    And Major, while each of us has our own present understanding/expectation of the unfolding events in the context of Daniel/Revelation/Bible prophecy, I personally keep my mind open to consider the opinion/understanding/belief of others as possibilities, particularly if the person has been on it for most of their religious life. In the final analysis, it is the actual reality of events in the here and now which will reveal the ultimate truth of the meaning of the prophecy, and it is my fervent hope/prayer/faith that I will not still be here in the physical world to experience it first hand as the conditions further deteriorate. :)

    Btw, I did a search for the term "Council of 400" and 'New Temple', etc., and I only get stuff in context of Greek history, is there a link you can provide?
  20. Major

    Major Well-Known Member

    Ben.........the only thing that confirms Bible prophecy is TIME!!

    My apologies. I was speaking from memory and probably got the name wrong. Try......http://news.prophecytoday.com.........................http://www.jewishexponent.com.
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