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Question to Philippians 3:12

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Glad2KnowHim, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. Can anyone please help me explain this verse? Especially the italicized lines.

    NIV says:
    Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

    While The Message says:
    I'm not saying that I have this all together, that I have it made. But I am well on my way, reaching out for Christ, who has so wondrously reached out for me.

    I'm really stuck and need to figure this out. Thanks!
  2. Lets read the following verses in the KJV to help understand.

    12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    We have not attained complete perfection but we are not what we used to be either. So we press forward, not thinking of the past any longer, but looking ahead to what the Lord would have us be and do. We reach for the high calling which He has called us to. That will one day be our prize when we reach our goal.
    Pastor Jeff likes this.
  3. GodSpeaks,

    Thanks for your fast reply, that was too clear but still it's kinda vague for me on verse 12.
    I actually don't get the idea in the following sentence: "...for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

    I simply get confused by what these words (apprehended, took hold, reached) actually mean to say. I'm sorry for my ignorance.

    Once again. Thanks a lot!
  4. Pardon me, you can tell that I'm not an English by looking at my questions above, but I hope this is the right place to specifically ask about this verse.
    I need to translate/subtitle this into my own language and so I need to be really exact about everything...

  5. katalambanō - apprehend

    d) to lay hold of with the mind
    1) to understand, perceive, learn, comprehend

    Back up to verse 10

    10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

    To know Him as He knows me, to see Him as He truly is, to pursue and reach out to Him as He first pursued me.
    Jeffin and Glad2KnowHim say Amen and like this.
  6. he was apprehended of Christ, when he met Him on his way to Damascus ( Act 9:3 ). Christ took into His possession (apprehended) by grace and glory that he might know Him and be made like unto Him -having communion (fellowship, union) with Him. Christ took up his residence in him.

    may you be blessed with all the riches of His glory ...apprehended !!!
    GodSpeaks and Glad2KnowHim say Amen and like this.
  7. Hi everyone,

    Thank you for taking time to clarify this for me, I appreciate it very much. Now I've got some points here. FYI: My Bible version sounds almost like telling a different story about this verse, because it uses a quite perplexing word (in my opinion). So I finally came up with an idea to look up a different version of the Bible and ended up found these words (apprehended, took hold, etc) used in some English Bibles. Still wondering if this phrase (apprehended of someone) is commonly used nowadays though.

    Can't thank you enough. God bless you!
    GodSpeaks likes this.
  8. Amen hesed!
    I'm glad to see you posting again:) We've missed you here
  9. That's why I used the KJV to go back to the original Greek and Hebrew dictionary in the Strong's Concordance to find out the word that was used.

    It loses alot in the translation many times and too many translations are nothing like what was said.
  10. Thanks GodSpeaks ;) - yah, works had me gone ...but no mater how far apart us brothers & sisters in Christ are, we're still just a prayer away. amen? ...amen!
  11. Yes Hesed. Hope to see you more :)
  12. amen, in & with the love of Christ
  13. I can offer my 2 cents worth.

    Read it in context (NRSV).

    8More than that, I regard everything as loss because of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and I regard them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
    9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but one that comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God based on faith. 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death, 11if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained this or have already reached the goal; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13Beloved, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but this one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the heavenly call of God in Christ Jesus.

    Jesus was faithful to death and because of it he was greatly rewarded. Paul says he has not got there yet.

    Think about what would have happened if Jesus became disobedient in the last hour...
  14. Certainly.

    The knowledge that Paul says that he will not attain perfection will not keep him from moving that way or trying to be. Perfection here means "MATURITY". Paul knew that he had not arrived at that point and he agreed with Peter who said in 2 Peter 3:18

    "Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus and Savior Jesus Christ".
  15. P
    Paul, (one of my hero's), depicted his struggle with a sinful nature in Romans Chapter 7. Also he said in 1Tim1/15, this is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am Chief. One thing I point out to my brothers and sisters in Christ, is 1John1/8 was written to the saved, NOT the lost.
  16. I disagree! 1 John 1/9 was written for UNBELIEVERS, not the saved!

    For example, Confession of sin to be made righteousness appears only once in 1 John 1:9, and it is addressed to non-believers.

    The clue is in the verse before 9, and the preceding verse itself gives the answer.

    1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    Will a Christian say that he has "no sin"? NO!! Only an unbeliever may say that!

    In the first place, a person became a Christian by acknowledging before God that he was a sinner in need of the Saviour. Furthermore, most Christians today are so sin-conscious, rather than righteous-conscious. In fact, some Christians still call themselves, as well as fellow Christians, sinners!

    Obviously, the verse is not for Christians, but for non-believers who say that they have no sin. John tells such people that they are deceiving themselves. But he also assures them that if they acknowledge that they are sinners, then there is a way out for them -- if they confess their sinfulness to God, God is faithful and just to Christ and His finished work, and will forgive them and wash away all their sins, and make them righteous forever by the blood of His Son.

    Another clue as to why this verse is not for the Christian is the phrase, "the truth is not in us". Christians have the Spirit of truth, which is the Holy Spirit, in them. Non-believers don't.

    John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you [after Pentecost].

    If you were to be correct Jeff, which you are not, that would mean Believers in Christ has no truth in them. So as we can clearly see, the phrase, "the truth is not in us", shows that it was written for unbelievers, not believers!
  17. Tony........
    I have to agree with Jeff.

    It is written to BELIEVERS. Notice 1 J0hn 1:4

    "And these things write we unto you that your joy may be full".

    1 John 5:13
    "...you who believe in the name of the Son of God..."

    John is clearly seeking to strengthen the faith of his readers. He is also addressing the threat of "gnosticism" . This assurance belongs to believers. "Believe" means to have faith in; to be convinced of; trust; rely upon; have confidence in. It is not merely something that we feel or think, but it is something we act upon.

    In this case, it is believing "in the name of the Son of God" that is being discussed. The "name of the Son of God" refers here to His authority as Lord and Savior. He is deity come to earth in the flesh. He has all authority in heaven and on earth. All we do is to be done "in His name" (Matthew 28:18-20; Colossians 3:17).

    Then consider 1 John 2:3
    "And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments".

    Then verse 7

    Now as for chapter 1:8-9. Some of the believers at Johns time claimed that they had NO SIN. Jesus had taught that those who owned up to their sin could find forgivness, while those who were blind TO THEIR OWN SIN WOULD BE LEFT MIRED IN IT. (Consider John 9:41)

    Verse #9 is a restatement of verse #7. "We should not deny our sins, but rather confess them before God!!

    Tony, coming to Christ does not make us sinless or unable to sin. WE ARE FORGIVEN not PERFECT yet.

    Believers still sin! YES we are forgiven of that sin before we even do it, but non the less we do it.

    Verse #10
    "If we say that we have not sinned we make Him a liar and His word is not in us".

    The key there is KNOWN SIN.
  18. You are entitled to your opinion and belief, but I do not interpret it that way at all. It is very clearly written to unbelievers who "have no truth in them".

    Paul wrote about two-thirds of the New Testament. Now, if confession of sin in order to be forgiven and to be right with God is so important to the believer, then Paul has done us a great injustice by not mentioning it in his letters to us, the church.

    But you will never find Paul teaching that to the Church. Confession of sin to be made righteousness appears only once in 1 John 1:9, and it is addressed to non-believers.

    1 John 1:9 is the only verse in the entire new testament that speaks about confession of sins, and it doesn't apply to believers, it's a message to unbelievers who refused to admit and acknowledge they were sinners to begin with.

    In a nutshell this verse is not talking to or about the Christian’s need to confess sins in order to be forgiven! John is talking about boastful false teachers who believed that they had never ever sinned!

    John angers back at them and says that if these false teachers hoped to be saved then they needed to confess [acknowledge and admit] that they were sinners. In other words, 1 John 1:9 is referring to the point in time that a person comes to Jesus for the first time. When they come to Christ they need to first “confess” their sinfulness. These false teachers were saying that they had no sin – see 1 John 1:8. John said that they were liars and deceiving themselves – the truth was not in them – they in fact were not yet saved. Read 1 John right through and this point becomes clear. This is the only verse in the New Testament that links confession of sin with forgiveness and it is not even talking about or to believers!

    If a person believes that they need to badger God with their confession and repentance in order for him to provide them with forgiveness then they really do not believe that God established their forgiveness through the blood 2000 years ago.

    IMHO, it's a mistake to interpret that chapter for believers and the believers who have interpreted as for them, have been led into legalism and salvation through personal works.
  19. Then we will agree to disagree, I just thought I would put in my 2 cents on it. I would only add this............
    Actually John tells us who he is writing to IMO when he says In 1 John 5:13, "These things have I written UNTO YOU THAT BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD." He wrote this letter to BELIEVERS.

    Thus, in 1 John 2:2 Christ is the propitiation for our sins (that is, believers), and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world (that is, unbelievers). That the term "world" is used elsewhere to refer to unbelievers (in contrast to believers) is clear from John 14:22; 16:8-9; 17:9,21.

    When John uses the word "our" he is referring to all Christian believers, not just Jewish believers. See 1 John 1:9 – "our sins" (it was not just the Jewish believers who were to confess their sins). See also 1 John 1:10 – "we," "us," (it was not just the Jewish believers that were in danger of saying that they had not sinned). See 1 John 2:1 – "we have an advocate" (it was not just the Jewish Christians who had an Advocate, but all believers). There is no reason to say that John wrote this epistle strictly to Jewish believers. The terms "our" and "the whole world" are definitely contrasts between believers and those who are not.

    If there is any question about this, let the Bible define its own terms. One should consider the usage of the term "world" in the book of 1 John (see 1 John 3:1; 3:13; 4:5; 4:9; 4:14; and especially 5:19). This word is certainly not used when referring to elect Gentiles. Especially significant is the usage of this term in 1 John 5:19. John used the expression "the whole world" in only two places: in 1 John 2:2 and 5:19. In 1 John 5:19 we read this: "And we [Christians] know that we [Christians] are of God, and THE WHOLE WORLD [non-Christians] lieth in wickedness [in the wicked one]." This is the same meaning that the expression has in 1 John 2:2, though certain Calvinists are forced to deny this because of their theology which tells them that Christ could not have paid the death penalty for any of the non-elect.

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