Question for Historians: Giant Nephilites

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Melizza said:
I've been reading Genesis again and in Genesis 4:6 it says.....

"4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." - KJV

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." - English Translation

"In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times." - NLT

So my questions are:
  1. Where did these Giants come from (as they're not mentioned in the Creation?)
  2. Why did they have relations with women on earth?
  3. Who are the 'heroes and famous warriors of ancient times'?
I'm very interested to know if someone can shed some light on this with their knowledge and wisdom from God. I'm aware that it might be that noone will know the answers to these questions but there's no harm in asking. I appreciate the help and information:)

Blessings.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry if this is a repeat, but I've not read what others have stated.
Here's my two cents.
Answers:
1. The giants came from the union of these fallen angels and the human women. A man mates with a woman, she gives birth to a human. The hybrid created the giants just as the word of God says.
2. Gen 3:15 - the devil wants to destroy the image of God. Men, living to be over 800 years old, knew things we can hardly imagine today, and they messed with genetics, just like today, as promised in the word of God that the last days would be like the days of Noah. Gen 6:12 says ALL flesh was corrupt yet Noah was perfect in his generations. Literally, Noah and his family where the last of the pure humans.
3. The word of God doesn't explicitly explain this, but it references another book not selected for what we call the bible, of which there are seven other books so named, called Jasher and it explains about the giants.

Some will no doubt have said that "sons of God" were just "righteous men" but it righteousness was passed by genes why did it produce giants? "Sons of God" in Hebrew is benim elohiym, which only appears in this verse and 3 more times in Job, each referring to angels. So why, is it that the only time that the "sons of God" is denied as a translation is when it refers to them mating with humans? Jude later says that Sodom sought after them, seeking strange flesh. Strange flesh does not mean homo (same) flesh, in fact it literally mean hetero (different) flesh. People believe anything except the actual word of God, just like the Jews.

So I supposed I should answer your next question, but angels don't marry, Matt 22:30. That's true. Marriage is an institution, not an act. If it was the act of sex, then there's no difference between a concubine or a wife, yet the word of God makes that distinction. So what is Jesus saying, just what He said, angels don't marry. After all, who's going to pronounce them "husband and wife"? Those are just titles of a oneness that God instituted for man. Angels have DNA because the Jews ate their food. Why would angels need food? Their food is compatible to humans which means we have something in common - whatever that is. Procreation is the swapping of DNA to make an entity from the combining of that DNA. This is true of everything that lives in the universe from amebas, to plants, to animals, to humans. There is nothing in the word of God that says angles can or cannot procreate. But Genesis 6 says they attempted to and the result were giants. Up until the 20th century, we could witness giants. There were mummies 20 feet tall, just like King Og (who was around 14 feet tall). Anyhow, I know this bucks the fast traditions of men, but I believe the reality of the word of God. I hope this helps.
 
Melizza said:
  • Where did these Giants come from (as they're not mentioned in the Creation?)
  • Why did they have relations with women on earth?
  • Who are the 'heroes and famous warriors of ancient times'?
Click to expand...
If, I may add my thoughts to this discussion;
  • Where did these Giants come from (as they're not mentioned in the Creation?)

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
What I'm seeing in this creation account is 'greatness' not necessarily physical greatness, but not excluding the possibility.
Being created in the image of God, and having the ability and purpose of having dominion over the whole earth might well at times require physical greatness as well as spiritual greatness.
the story unfolds..

Why did they have relations with women on earth?

Well I think that might be getting ahead a bit, so let's look back a bit to
Gen 4:26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the LORD.

To my understanding, Genesis is, while accurate, as a historical narrative a bit sketchy in places
verse 26 is set by scripture as being 235 years after the creation of Adam, and it is the "at that time" that men began to call upon the name of the Lord.........235 years after the creation of Adam.
Although the last part of V26 seems to coincide with the birth of Enosh, it is probably more concerned with men turning back to the Lord 235 years into the history of mankind.
We also know that Adam lived hundreds of years after this and had other kiddies.
Now looking at the events told in Ch 6, the flood came when Noah was 600, so that would be 1469 years after Adam was created.
So now returning to your question, look closely at Gen 6:1. There is no way that can be referring to the times surrounding the flood,
because man began to multiply back in the days of Adam and Eve, well over a thousand yeas before the flood. So, in my opinion it would be wrong to link these things chronologically with the flood.
The 'they' of your question would be the sons of God (Godly men) and they seem to have existed in parallel with the Nephilim. and it is the sons of God who married the daughters of men, not the Nephilim, (though they must have married too). So, the direction of you question seems to presuppose that we are talking about non humans marrying women, but as has been pointed out already, that is not possible. Notice that in V4, it is still the sons of God, not the Nephilim who are marrying and having children.

Who are the 'heroes and famous warriors of ancient times?
Scripture is not very clear, but I am captivated by the fact that these were 'men of renown'.
Now who do we know of who were in some way men of renown?
We find them listed in the pages of the Bible, starting with Genesis, but not ending there.
Indeed the only men of renown that we know about are Adam,Abel, Seth Enosh etc.etc. and also Cain's offspring.
I realise that this is an unusual view, but then again, I am an unusual guy:)
I hope I have given you some food for thought.
 
Cturtle said:
I agree with Melizza.....I'm going to have to do some more praying and seeking the Holy Spirit on this, because as helpful and great yours and everyone's answers have been....I feel as if there is something more. Something that God will reveal that just clicks..ya know?

Blessings
Click to expand...

No problem sister. I am sure that you have considered Occams Razor method to theology.
 
calvin said:
If, I may add my thoughts to this discussion;
  • Where did these Giants come from (as they're not mentioned in the Creation?)

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
What I'm seeing in this creation account is 'greatness' not necessarily physical greatness, but not excluding the possibility.
Being created in the image of God, and having the ability and purpose of having dominion over the whole earth might well at times require physical greatness as well as spiritual greatness.
the story unfolds..

Why did they have relations with women on earth?

Well I think that might be getting ahead a bit, so let's look back a bit to
Gen 4:26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the LORD.

To my understanding, Genesis is, while accurate, as a historical narrative a bit sketchy in places
verse 26 is set by scripture as being 235 years after the creation of Adam, and it is the "at that time" that men began to call upon the name of the Lord.........235 years after the creation of Adam.
Although the last part of V26 seems to coincide with the birth of Enosh, it is probably more concerned with men turning back to the Lord 235 years into the history of mankind.
We also know that Adam lived hundreds of years after this and had other kiddies.
Now looking at the events told in Ch 6, the flood came when Noah was 600, so that would be 1469 years after Adam was created.
So now returning to your question, look closely at Gen 6:1. There is no way that can be referring to the times surrounding the flood,
because man began to multiply back in the days of Adam and Eve, well over a thousand yeas before the flood. So, in my opinion it would be wrong to link these things chronologically with the flood.
The 'they' of your question would be the sons of God (Godly men) and they seem to have existed in parallel with the Nephilim. and it is the sons of God who married the daughters of men, not the Nephilim, (though they must have married too). So, the direction of you question seems to presuppose that we are talking about non humans marrying women, but as has been pointed out already, that is not possible. Notice that in V4, it is still the sons of God, not the Nephilim who are marrying and having children.

Who are the 'heroes and famous warriors of ancient times?
Scripture is not very clear, but I am captivated by the fact that these were 'men of renown'.
Now who do we know of who were in some way men of renown?
We find them listed in the pages of the Bible, starting with Genesis, but not ending there.
Indeed the only men of renown that we know about are Adam,Abel, Seth Enosh etc.etc. and also Cain's offspring.
I realise that this is an unusual view, but then again, I am an unusual guy:)
I hope I have given you some food for thought.
Click to expand...

Good thoughts all.

Just my thinking on this at a personal level and it is just a thought and is not to be considered as truth in any way, is that some people are captivated by "conspiracy theory" thinking.

We read Stephen King novels and watch Star Trek and science fiction movies and allow them to plant seeds in our minds. We then begin to look under rocks and leave the lights on at night and so forth.

Example. Right after JFK was killed, 52% of Americans believed there was a conspiracy behind it. Now 50 years later with computers, and cell phones, and TV and college educated people that figure has gone UP to 62%. Don't believe me.......do a fact check on it and see for yourself.

Right now there are people who know that man never went to the moon and the whole thing was filmed in a TV studio.

Right now, today there are hundreds of thousands of people who know that the government was behind the 9-11 attacks.

Right now, today, there are millions of people who know that there are aliens living among us.

What does that mean??? All of the facts and information is out there, but for many of people the only bits that stick to heir brain are the ones that aren't supported by any evidence at all. Go figure!!!

Works the same way in Bible teaching. We feel the need to force what is simply not there so as to expand the exotic.

Another example which I posted already but fits the example perfectly.
Some people in their need to read some exotic meaning into the Bible, seize upon the word “giants” in Genesis 6:4. From this one word, they extrapolate the idea of marriages that produced a race of “superhumans.” But read the verse carefully!

Genesis 6:4..............
“There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.”

Do you see it???? The marriages of Genesis 6 did not bring the “giants” into existence. They already existed!

The verse does not say that the "Sons of God" were demons or hybrids or anything else. It says that they were the "Sons of God".
We explain away the clear teaching of Jesus in Matthew 22:30 and follow the "conspiracy" thinking.

"Context" is everything in correct Bible understanding. Now if we go back to Genesis 4, it establishes the context for chapters 5 and 6. At the end of Genesis 4, we are shown that two families of men are emerging in the Earth–Cain’s descendants and Seth’s descendants. It was Seth’s descendants who “call upon the name of the LORD,” in Genesis 4:26. In other words, Seth’s descendants were those who worshiped God and their lineage is highlighted in Genesis 5. Since they worshiped God, they were considered sons of God and were the sons of God in Genesis 6. It was Cain’s descendants and other unbelievers who were the “daughters of men.”

For some reason we over look the Bible fact that Fallen angels are never called sons of God. WHY????

Another thought that came to me is that God made several command to the Jews to not intermarry. The Bible tells us over and over to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. That being the case, why in the world would he then allow demons to marry and mate with humans.
In other words, God gets upset when his followers marry unbelievers. He did not like it in Genesis 6, or when he established the nation of Israel as his chosen people, or when he called believers in Jesus Christ to be separated from the world. The Lord has never liked such relationships because it is always the spiritual state of the believer that gets the short end of the stick. It is always the worshiper of God who ends up severely compromising their relationship with Yahweh when they get hitched to unbelievers.

IMHO, angels, whether they be fallen or not, have never mated with humans and have never produced offspring by humans. This is one thing God has never allowed and will never allow.
 
Major said:
Good thoughts all.

Just my thinking on this at a personal level and it is just a thought and is not to be considered as truth in any way, is that some people are captivated by "conspiracy theory" thinking.

We read Stephen King novels and watch Star Trek and science fiction movies and allow them to plant seeds in our minds. We then begin to look under rocks and leave the lights on at night and so forth.

Example. Right after JFK was killed, 52% of Americans believed there was a conspiracy behind it. Now 50 years later with computers, and cell phones, and TV and college educated people that figure has gone UP to 62%. Don't believe me.......do a fact check on it and see for yourself.

Right now there are people who know that man never went to the moon and the whole thing was filmed in a TV studio.

Right now, today there are hundreds of thousands of people who know that the government was behind the 9-11 attacks.

Right now, today, there are millions of people who know that there are aliens living among us.

What does that mean??? All of the facts and information is out there, but for many of people the only bits that stick to heir brain are the ones that aren't supported by any evidence at all. Go figure!!!

Works the same way in Bible teaching. We feel the need to force what is simply not there so as to expand the exotic.

Another example which I posted already but fits the example perfectly.
Some people in their need to read some exotic meaning into the Bible, seize upon the word “giants” in Genesis 6:4. From this one word, they extrapolate the idea of marriages that produced a race of “superhumans.” But read the verse carefully!

Genesis 6:4..............
“There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.”

Do you see it???? The marriages of Genesis 6 did not bring the “giants” into existence. They already existed!

The verse does not say that the "Sons of God" were demons or hybrids or anything else. It says that they were the "Sons of God".
We explain away the clear teaching of Jesus in Matthew 22:30 and follow the "conspiracy" thinking.

"Context" is everything in correct Bible understanding. Now if we go back to Genesis 4, it establishes the context for chapters 5 and 6. At the end of Genesis 4, we are shown that two families of men are emerging in the Earth–Cain’s descendants and Seth’s descendants. It was Seth’s descendants who “call upon the name of the LORD,” in Genesis 4:26. In other words, Seth’s descendants were those who worshiped God and their lineage is highlighted in Genesis 5. Since they worshiped God, they were considered sons of God and were the sons of God in Genesis 6. It was Cain’s descendants and other unbelievers who were the “daughters of men.”

For some reason we over look the Bible fact that Fallen angels are never called sons of God. WHY????

Another thought that came to me is that God made several command to the Jews to not intermarry. The Bible tells us over and over to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. That being the case, why in the world would he then allow demons to marry and mate with humans.
In other words, God gets upset when his followers marry unbelievers. He did not like it in Genesis 6, or when he established the nation of Israel as his chosen people, or when he called believers in Jesus Christ to be separated from the world. The Lord has never liked such relationships because it is always the spiritual state of the believer that gets the short end of the stick. It is always the worshiper of God who ends up severely compromising their relationship with Yahweh when they get hitched to unbelievers.

IMHO, angels, whether they be fallen or not, have never mated with humans and have never produced offspring by humans. This is one thing God has never allowed and will never allow.
Click to expand...

Indeed Major, you and I have both endeavoured to rebut the errors attendant with Gen ch6, each in our own way.
I am surprised that people want to promote all sorts of ideas concerning these 'men of renown', 'mighty men of old' etc. while entertaining absolutely no regard for the meaning of the word 'renown'. Unfortunately the web is full of fanciful opinion about who these mystery people might have been, however when we consider the plain meaning of the word 'renown':::

noun: renown
the condition of being known or talked about by many people; fame.
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=renown

We see that the pages of Scripture are full of names....why speculate then?

I am going to leave this thread because I think all that need be said has been said.
But one parting thought;
Gen 29:31 When the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb, but Rachel was barren.
Gen 30:22 Then God remembered Rachel, and God listened to her and opened her womb.

1Sa 1:5 But to Hannah he gave a double portion, because he loved her, though the LORD had closed her womb.
The Lord opens and the Lord closes.

It seems incredible that any fallen angel could be thought capable of overriding the Lord's obvious sovereign control.
 
calvin said:
Indeed Major, you and I have both endeavoured to rebut the errors attendant with Gen ch6, each in our own way.
I am surprised that people want to promote all sorts of ideas concerning these 'men of renown', 'mighty men of old' etc. while entertaining absolutely no regard for the meaning of the word 'renown'. Unfortunately the web is full of fanciful opinion about who these mystery people might have been, however when we consider the plain meaning of the word 'renown':::

noun: renown
the condition of being known or talked about by many people; fame.
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=renown

We see that the pages of Scripture are full of names....why speculate then?

I am going to leave this thread because I think all that need be said has been said.
But one parting thought;
Gen 29:31 When the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb, but Rachel was barren.
Gen 30:22 Then God remembered Rachel, and God listened to her and opened her womb.

1Sa 1:5 But to Hannah he gave a double portion, because he loved her, though the LORD had closed her womb.
The Lord opens and the Lord closes.

It seems incredible that any fallen angel could be thought capable of overriding the Lord's obvious sovereign control.
Click to expand...

Amen my brother!.......Amen.
 
calvin said:
Indeed Major, you and I have both endeavoured to rebut the errors attendant with Gen ch6, each in our own way.
I am surprised that people want to promote all sorts of ideas concerning these 'men of renown', 'mighty men of old' etc. while entertaining absolutely no regard for the meaning of the word 'renown'. Unfortunately the web is full of fanciful opinion about who these mystery people might have been, however when we consider the plain meaning of the word 'renown':::

noun: renown
the condition of being known or talked about by many people; fame.
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=renown

We see that the pages of Scripture are full of names....why speculate then?

I am going to leave this thread because I think all that need be said has been said.
But one parting thought;
Gen 29:31 When the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb, but Rachel was barren.
Gen 30:22 Then God remembered Rachel, and God listened to her and opened her womb.

1Sa 1:5 But to Hannah he gave a double portion, because he loved her, though the LORD had closed her womb.
The Lord opens and the Lord closes.

It seems incredible that any fallen angel could be thought capable of overriding the Lord's obvious sovereign control.
Click to expand...
I think seeing a 20 foot man would make him renowned!
 
These giants are semi Gods which are of Satan, these movies that are based in movies are all subliminal propaganda
 
Abdicate said:
I think seeing a 20 foot man would make him renowned!
Click to expand...

(Elmacinus & Patricides apud Hottinger, p. 235, 236.)............

men of renown,
or "of name"; whose names were often made mention of, for their wickedness; they were much talked of, and extolled for their exploits, and even wicked ones: they were famous men, or rather infamous; for some men get a name in the world, not for their goodness, but for their greatness, and sometimes for their great wickedness.

The Hebrew is literally....."Men of a name". They had a reputation of evil because the context of the passage is that ....
"God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually".(Vs. 5).
 
My three cents:

The Amalekites are thought of by many as being nephilim. The chief reason for them being annihilated. But what is interesting when you read the chapters and verses on them is that they were treated the same as any other nation. IE There was no unwarranted / biased hatred or dislike for them. The bible documents the reasons they were taken out. They backstabbed the Hebrews. The Hebrews asked for safe passage Numbers 20:17 and were attacked when they were off guard. They rallied others to join them in taking out the Hebrews. They had such hatred and dislike for the Hebrews. They were edomites / descendants of Esau. So I imagine a similar spirit driving them to the one driving many Muslims today. If you see people come out of forty years in the desert, four hundred years of slavery and living by such holy laws (good people)...and still attack them without mercy...you hate God. IE The Amalekites got the death penalty because they were murderers, not because they were giants (not saying they weren't).

So for me the nephilim is a non issue. I agree there were very large humans before the flood. But all evil just because of their dna?? No ways. Every intelligent being ever created by God has always had a time and place of true free will. Angels chose to fall. They have never been damned because of their dna. So if we believe fallen angels did mate with humans, then we also have to believe that some of these nephilim just may be in heaven. Now the latter does not sound sane. But I would say the two have to go together.

The sweetest conspiracy theories from the devil involve intelligent beings that have no free will / Jesus. Mermaids, grey aliens, big foot. Free will is 1. having the ability to choose to hate or love what is wicked 2. having our decision carry weight with God.
 
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The word of God is quite clear, the fallen angels mated with the women and created giants. A man from good Seth and a woman of bad Caine still makes a normal human. A man from bad Caine and a woman from good Seth still makes a normal human. That's simple biology. Something was introduced into the woman to produce these giants that was the fallen angels just like the word of God says yet people ignore the word of God even when science backs it up. The most studied structure in the world and man cannot replicate it today. That alone tells you that the monolithics from around the world had been built by superior intellect. Even Paul says we are living in the shadow of reality. Jude confirms want of the men to mix their of DNA (what do you think mating is?) concerning Sodom - and the Greek word is hetero - different, not homo - same.

Even the Septuagint says the giants were the offspring:

Genesis 6:4 (LXXE)
(6:5) Now the giants were upon the earth in those days; and after that when the sons of God were wont to go in to the daughters of men, they bore [children] to them, those were the giants of old, the men of renown.​

A 45 foot man will be well known.
 
Abdicate said:
The word of God is quite clear, the fallen angels mated with the women and created giants. A man from good Seth and a woman of bad Caine still makes a normal human. A man from bad Caine and a woman from good Seth still makes a normal human. That's simple biology. Something was introduced into the woman to produce these giants that was the fallen angels just like the word of God says yet people ignore the word of God even when science backs it up. The most studied structure in the world and man cannot replicate it today. That alone tells you that the monolithics from around the world had been built by superior intellect. Even Paul says we are living in the shadow of reality. Jude confirms want of the men to mix their of DNA (what do you think mating is?) concerning Sodom - and the Greek word is hetero - different, not homo - same.

Even the Septuagint says the giants were the offspring:

Genesis 6:4 (LXXE)
(6:5) Now the giants were upon the earth in those days; and after that when the sons of God were wont to go in to the daughters of men, they bore [children] to them, those were the giants of old, the men of renown.​

A 45 foot man will be well known.
Click to expand...
Good stuff to chew on....Thanks for posting it
 
Babs said:
To answer your question Major the bible verse would be Genesis 6:1-22
Click to expand...

Hello Babs. I realize the need that some have to want the Word of God to say what they want but the words..."semi-god" or anything like those words are not in those verses at all. In fact those words are no where in the Bible at all.
 
Abdicate said:
The word of God is quite clear, the fallen angels
Click to expand...
It is clear, but we are reading into the sons of God equalling fallen angels.

Abdicate said:
Even the Septuagint says the giants were the offspring:
Click to expand...
Only one manuscript (Codex Alexandrinus) reads angels of God. The critical editions of the Septuagint (as well as two other ancient Greek translations) read sons of God not angels of God in Gen 6:2,4. Therefore one cannot appeal to the Septuagint to support the idea of angels. https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_724.cfm
 
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