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Purpose of Rapture?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by THALLON, Sep 12, 2014.

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  1. Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, the two witnesses [though they are killed then raised as Jesus was] all physically went into heaven in their bodies.
    But why didn't Daniel or Job or some of the other prophets, noah Abraham etc? get to go, they were righteous surely.
    Jesus says God is the God of the living in that issac and Jacob and Abraham were alive someplace.
    And no Christian in 2000 years has been worthy of body rapture, not even Francis.
    There is suggestion in the rapture scriptures that
    the physical body is NOT taken, that two men are in the field and one is taken...as in dies suddenly...his spirit/soul being raptured? but not his body. Where the eagles gather there is the dead body.
    So this idea of grabbing people as you float into the sky is a bit of a nonsense?.
    But, if people die and go to be with the Lord then they are raptured?
    I mean their in heaven,
    I mean where else are they? mars? a big waiting room off the coast of Hawaii?
    however, that is contrary to the idea of the first will be last and the last first, since such an idea means
    the apostles are last and have been waiting for 2000 years?
    [I welcome your response, I may not respond myself but I will try to read what you say.]
     
  2. Good question. This verse comes to mind:

    Pro 11:8 (KJV) The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wickedcometh in his stead.

    As to why Enoch and Elijah, no telling, but it's possible they are the Two Witnesses as they are not born, but come down from heaven. Philip had a translocation, a type of rapture. Remember many don't believe in the rapture. I do because that's what the word of God says. I also believe it is not for everyone. Not all christians will be raptured, only those who have prepared themselves and are found worthy to escape, as Jesus said in Luke 21:36. Paul says we're going to get a new body so I wouldn't fret about that either. It's last part of our salvation.
     
    autumn oddity likes this.
  3. @ abdicate , how do you make yourself worthy ?

    its so hard for me to ... do the simple things BC I'm so mad at God.
    when I pray he's silent, like he enjoys my misery or something.
     
    Major likes this.
  4. Getting a bit off topic kiddo, but 1. We don't make ourselves worthy, the Lord does that. We need only prepare by following Jesus.
    2. We don't usually expect an audible response from the Lord as a result of prayer, we just lay our petitions before Him and wait. Never expecting things to play out on our terms bust waiting in faith....but this is woefully brief..it should be in the prayer board, no?
     
    Katie A, Abdicate, Ravindran and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  5. sorry for getting off topic, the question popped in my head and on here :s
     
  6. Prayer. That's what Jesus said. "Pray that you be found worthy." We're all unworthy, yet He died for us, making us worthy :) Believe it. Trust Him. All will be well. :)
     
    autumn oddity likes this.
  7. abdicate, you are absolutely right.
     
  8. Thanks ma'am. God's blessed you and He'll continue :) *HUGS*
     
  9. You know... As with many other prophecies and events predicted..... I have this feeling that the way it will actually happen isn't the way ANYBODY (except God) would have predicted......

    I mean... Think - Jesus - THE MESSIAH of God....
    Sent as a Carpenter?
    Living in Poverty
    Reviled as a bastard in a day that this was UNACCEPTABLE
    Living WAY up in Nazareth of the Gentiles... In the Galilee
    Going after "The lost sheep" - and not having much of anything to do with the "Official" religious leaders....
    The Dynasty of King David had ended 500 or so years before
    The Temple High-priestly leadership was 100% Roman appointed apostates
    He wrangled up all sorts of trouble with the Religious Leadership...
    but NONE with the hated Roman Civil leadership....
    His disciples were Laborers and common men - not officials or men of standing....
    Sent to serve and die....
    Sent a bunch of Fishermen and tax collectors out to "Preach"
    And... as a RESULT...
    Jerusalem was DESTROYED
    The Nation of Judea was ENSLAVED
    The Gentiles got a "New Religion".....
    and the Captivity lasted nearly 2,000 years.

    Wanna bet that's not exactly how THEY planned either?
     
  10. back to the question,,
    declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortalit
    If you die today,
    where are you going as a Christian??
    Not in the future rapture which applies to all Christians alive and dead,
    but right now today?
     
  11. G'day THALLON,

    I think the Rapture will happen at the very time Jesus returns and those who are alive at that time will be changed as Paul said. So it seems we won't be keeping our current body.

    1Co 15:50-53 KJV Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    In the mean time I reckon those who die before this time are Asleep in Jesus waiting for the resurrection when all believers will be changed/made perfect at the same time.

    Heb 11:40 KJV God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    Jesus said that Yahweh was the God of the living because of the resurrection.

    Mat 22:31-32 KJV But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    The only people in the Bible said to have not died are Enoch and Elijah like you said and it would be cool if they are the 2 witnesses.
     
  12. The name of your thread is..........."Purpose of the Rapture "?

    Revelation 3:10 ........
    "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

    Though the recent formulation of the rapture doctrine is often used to discredit it; be not troubled. Every one needs to realize that the Trinity doctrine was not fully formulated until 325 A.D., and that many early believers went to Heaven without truly understanding it. As a matter of fact, it is unclear how many of even the apostles and disciples who walked with Jesus understood Trinity, because only John wrote about it.

    It would also be helpful if we all did not forget the reason that there will be a Tribulation Period in the 1st place.

    The reason for the tribulation is to use its great horrors and sorrows to........
    A) to punish mankind for its sins and
    B) to soften the necks and hearts of God’s people the Jews so they will accept Christ.

    Either A) or B) will happen, there will be no in between!

    So why expose the church to (A) since their sins have already been forgiven?

    It will be like a parent KNOWINGLY giving a child a spanking for something that he has not done! And why expose the church to (B) if they have already accepted Christ? Now some might allege that Christians will be useful during the great tribulation in converting the few remaining saints and also instructing and comforting them. The truth is that the Church has never ever saved one single human being. Salvation is 100% the work of God not man.

    Not so Biblically speaking! Now, just how are they supposed to do that? All conversions, teachings, comfortings, etc. that were done by the saints in the age of grace were works of the Holy Spirit. So how are they do to these works when the Holy Spirit is GONE FROM THE EARTH?
    According to the Bible, one can not be saved today without the conviction of the Holy Spirit and His "pointing" us to Christ to be saved. So HOW are they saved???

    When one reads Revelation concerning the 144,000 we see that it is through their ministry and work during the Tribulation that leads a great revival. The 144,000 will preach Christ and Him crucified and also that no can take the Mark of the Beast and be saved. For that reason, it will be very hard to be saved during the Tribulation. One MUST come into contact with one of the 144,ooo Jewish men, accept Christ and refuse the Mark.
    The church is never in view after chapter 4:1 and the word church does not appear again in the Revelation. Could there be a reason for that?
     
  13. Not all shall die says the scriptures . The rapture or better put the translation of the Bride includes the body which will be transformed from mortal to immortal in the blink of an eye even as Enoch was .
    Enoch was taken suddenly for while he walked this earth "he was not" for the Lord took Him.

    The great confusion arising about the 'rapture' at root lies in the great confusion about the Bride of Christ.
    Under stand the true nature character and dispostition of the Bride and who is in the Bride and the rest falls relatively in its proper place.

    But in a nut shell .The Bride is the first fruits .
    Those who are saved in and during the great tribulation are the main harvest .
    Those who are saved after the millennium reign of Christ are the gleanings .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  14. The exhortation by the Lord to" be ready "
    and in another place "the Bride has got herself ready "
    and that all those ministers of God were and are given to the chur4ch to perfect the Bride and get her ready fro the coming of the Lord .
    In the light of revelation 2 where ALL the churches save one had to repent and even that one had left its first love .
    and the last church which in its own eyes was "rich and increased with goods " Prosperity then. and reasoned thus "it needed nothing"
    was in the Lord eyes poor wretched and blind and it did not even know it . Could hardly be said to be ready.
    Indeed the Lord states that he stands at the door and knocks!
    That is a call to the whole church to repent . The promise however is to" those who have ears to hear and open the door ,to THEM wilI I/........"

    Lot was counted righteous for" his righteous soul was vexed " but he walked by sight and not by faith .
    he was saved THROUGH or from the judgement of God . Abraham who walked by faith was no where near the place.
    It is written of some "they shall suffer loss as through fire" Lot lost all but the saving of his soul .
    Noah was saved THROUGH the flood .
    Enoch was translated before it happened .

    The confusion arises becazuse of the error in teaching that ALL who are 'saved or BORNagain are automatically in the Bride .
    We are not .
    That is the HIGH calling to which we are called . and every true born child of God is so called .
    Out of all the disciples it was Peter James and John who saw and heard things the others did not .
    and even out of those three when Jesus said at the last supper "one of you will betray me "
    They ALL said "is it I" Only John was able to say "who is it Lord" For he knew it was not him.

    Out of the 12 tribes there was levi .
    and all 11 tribes had an inheritance .
    Levi" had no inheritance for God was their inheritance"

    Jesus is called the last Adam .he is therefore like3ned unto the first .
    The first had a wife or bride. From whence did she come?
    Out form the midst of his body.
    So then with the last Adam who also has a body ."For a body hast thou prepared for me " and the Bride comes out of the midst of that body also .

    Abraham (the father) sent his servant (the holy Spirit) to seek a bride or wife for his son .The Son of promise .
    Where did he send him? Not to the world . But to go to his bretheren.

    The rapture or translation happens before the outpouring of Gods wrath and judgement upon the earth and will take those virgins who are wise and have their vessels full . all the time . For thought they might sleep also they will be and are ready .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  15. None are worthy to eb saved or indeed of any of |Gods mercies .
    Yet there are crowns to be earned .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  16. You put a lot of effort into your post. I just wish I could understand what your point is.

    With all that you said, I do agree with your comment of ........
    "The rapture or translation happens before the outpouring of Gods wrath and judgement upon the earth".
     
  17. I do not think nor do I accept that any truth of scripture or doctrine can be simply explained or even expounded upon with just a few pithy lines or a few quotes of scripture .
    For while I accept that your quote is true it is not the main thrust if you will of my argument.
    It is about the Bride of Christ and that if you get some right understanding about the bride then all those things that pertain to what is called the rapture falls into place.
    It is indeed beyond dispute that the rapture happens before the "great tribulation"
    But the general teaching of WHO is raptured that prevails in the church to day is generally speaking way off the mark and why that is and the proof of it will also take a lot of effort to prove .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  18. You just said........
    "It is about the Bride of Christ and that if you get some right understanding about the bride then all those things that pertain to what is called the rapture falls into place."

    I understand that you are new here with us and I hope the best for you, HOWEVER, do you really think that arrogance is the way to make friends and influence others?

    We Do know who will be included in the Rapture my brother as it is recorded in Scripture....

    1 Thess. 4:13-17 (ESV)
    "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

    The dead and living who have accepted Christ will be Raptured. "BORN AGAIN PEOPLE are those who make up the Bride of Christ which is the CHURCH.

    John 3:3-5 (ESV)
    Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

    Ephesians 5:30-32 (ESV)
    "because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church."

    As believers in Jesus Christ, we who are the bride of Christ wait with great anticipation for the day when we will be united with our Bridegroom. Until then, we remain faithful to Him and say with all the redeemed of the Lord, “Come, Lord Jesus!”
     
  19. Was I reducing all things to you and me? No I was not.
    For any observer of church matters will know how many great contentions and strife there is among Gods people .
    Indeed when I was a young Christian I was told by my Pastor" as to being BORNagain there is in the main agreement (and by implication peace .)
    But in all other matters there are as many opinions as there are pastors "

    I did I think give some indicators but hardly comprehensive reasons why I think that not all will be raptured . I also said that EVERY true born child of God is called to that "high calling"
    I can and I will; God willing present more biblical proofs to that end .
    It is not arrogance at all therefore . But simply desiring the truth to be known and understood by my brethren.,
    That we may be counted wise virgins not foolish ones.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  20. Only the wise are raptured at the beginning of the tribulation period, those found worthy to escape; it's not a right.
     
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