Problem With Submission

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother_Mike_V, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. I live in New York State where they just passed the SAFE Act. There are certain parts of the Bill that are appealing, but as an owner of certain 'now banned' items because of this legislation, I feel my rights are violated under the Second Amendment.

    Thus far I have signed a petition against the act and contacted a lawyer preparing a lawsuit against the State. We have until January 15th, 2014 to sell, turn in, destroy certain items.

    As a veteran and defined "right wing extremist" and 'conspiracy theorist' as deemed by the FBI and DHS; I see what is happening in politics and culture and quite frankly, I think the union of the states is about to collapse one way or the other.

    I understand what the Bible says about submission to authority the ordination of government by God. So on one hand I am compelled to comply as soon as possible. On the other, I feel that my family and community are being put in jeopardy by an ungodly tyrannical government.

    I know Christ will heal all in the end, but we still need to survive the 'here and now.'

    Is it my pride? or something else...opinions please... &bn=S02230&term=2013&Summary=Y&Text=Y
  2. the right to bear arms shall not be infringed

    the English is plain enough, but, for some reason, there are quite a few in power who
    cannot find it in their hearts to obey the law of the land

    any law that is passed that violates the constitution is invalid and need not be obeyed

    I personally do not hold that our present government is in any way "ordained by God".
    We live in Nazi Germany version 2.0, the Republic of the United States died some decades ago.
  3. All government is put in place by God, for one reason or anther (romans 13:1) Whether it be good government, or bad government. Keep in mind, all things work out for good for those who love God (ronans 8:28) that includes the bad.

    As far as us being nazi germany 2.0, false. Were not there, yet. Theres still a constition, and still a republic-and still some people in the government and country, willing to stand for whats right. Its getting fewer and fewer however, and if things arn't changed rapidly, it may indeed turn into nazi germany. But, its not, right now, and such a statement shows lack of actual research-unlike hitler, were not killing 6 million jews, and other minorities, were not trying to take over the world by force, we not run by a dictator yet (though, our current president seems to think he is) And there are several other key differences.

    Our current government, while it may not be "blessed by God" was indeed, put there for a reason, a reason known only to God. Im not saying God agrees with its actions, but God does have a plan, and our current government, works with it.

    Thirdly, as to the core issue, I see your following the legal precedings to fight it. Thats good, one should always try to fix things right the first time. As to whether you follow it if your plans fail, thats a different matter. Some, including me, hold that the actual government, is the people-the government, is there to serve us-and the constition, was put in place to protect us-the minute we give up the ability to defend that constition-we give up the constition, and pretty much any power we have in the government, because then they can choose then to turn into nazi germany 2.0, and there would be nothing we could do to stop it. Keep in mind, in 1776, britain also tried to disarm americans, and it didnt work then, and that was why, the second amendment was put in place. Im not telling you to do one thing or another, Im just adding another perspective, and my own .02 cents.
  4. Yes, historically-we are not there YET. But we agree we are on that very same road paved in the early 1930s...

    And it's not the "Nazis"; it is DHS...

    Yes I believe the Constitution (and the people) is the answer-and people need to organize ASAP.

    In the end, it is what we do for cause of Christ-eternity...

    Ephesians 6:...
  5. For God to institute an evil government would be an act of evil, God does not do evil.

    Where is the constitution? If our governement creates unconstitutional laws every day then of what value is that piece of paper? to quote a former president "it's just a &^% ^%$^& piece of paper".

    The NDAA allows the arrest, imprisonment and killing of any person, anywhere for any or no reason at all (being that the reason is a state secret), so where is the constitution?
    The TSA has the authority to search and sieze anywhere in the US, what Bill of Rights?
    Every piece of US dirt within 100 miles of the border is a "constitution free zone", where is the constitution?

    The US has not killed 6 million Jews, just tens of thousands of Iraqis, Yemenis, Libyans, Iranians, Afghans, Pakistanis, etc. Since the end of WW2, the US goverment has been responsible for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people, the vast majority were non-combatants.
  6. Unfortunately, P13 is right...and so are you in a way Glomung...

    I have to agree with you both because 'We the People' have not only failed our country, but the Lord almighty as well.
    God has ALLOWED the state of the United States to happen, just like He allowed the devil to harass Job. Like He allowed the Children of Israel to be defeated do to their disobedience.

    If this Nation does not get right with God-judgment will righteously be given. I think the hope of many is that the children of God will be removed before that happens. My opinion is that the United States must be destroyed first.

    The Bible has been removed from the daily lives of people, and so has the US Constitution. To me, these are the most important historical documents of the foundation of a country since the beginning of history. Both are now viewed and "radical" and "extreme" by most of the world. 60 years ago the US was the 'Light'-I think the light is being shoved under a bushel.

    There is nothing more important than the cause of Christ-'But if you will not believe the earthly truths, how will you then believe the spiritual truths?' So many people are willfully ignorant. The second amendment has nothing to do with "hunting" yet that is the constant disinformation tactic taught in public school. The problem is deep...very deep.
  7. God allows evil to take place, and He has a plan for it. Period. Does he "do" evil? no. but theres a difference between "doing evil" and using "evil" to further His plan.
  8. As Christians we have to obey the Word of God over any constitution.

    We are supposed to love our enemies and pray for them.

    Our hope lies in Jesus Christ alone, not in the power of weapons or the right to own them. Do we really think, when the world goes belly up and the darkness envelops all that owning a piddly firearm will save us? Only seeking for righteousness and obeying the Word of God will save us.

    For a Christian, true power lies not in our own abilities but in the power of the almighty God, who has torn down enemies and mighty armies in a wink of an eye.
  9. I agree 100% with the Dirty Rotten Sinner (OP) What about these?;

    Exodus 23:24; Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
    Ephesians 5.11; Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
    Ephesians 6.10-20; Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
    Zechariah 8.16; These are the things you shall do: Speak each man the truth to his neighbor: Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace.
    Galatians 5:1; Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
    Romans 12:21; Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
    Quran 44:51; Surely those who guard against evilare in a secure place.
  10. Let me try to vocalize my thoughts on this a little better now that the initial anger is being curbed by a more sensible spirit:

    Christ gave us the perfect example of a willing sacrifice, humbling Himself for our sake. He CHOSE to lay down His life in perfect sacrifice for mankind. This was an example of submission in grace for the sake of sinners separated from God as a gift to us.

    I cannot convince myself that this move by our government is a test of our submission like Christ for this reason: Christ maintained His power and ability up to, during and after the crucifixion to defend/ protect Himself; therefore a "willing sacrifice."

    Our government is making a move to make us slaves; not servants- dependent on the government for protection and resources. Any good cop will tell you that they always show up after the fact so what GOOD does that do us.

    Can we so easily cast aside the rights and freedoms purchased by our ancestors blood? Did not our forefathers of this country foresee this problem henceforth creating the 2nd Amendment?

    If we "willfully" submit knowingly to tyranny then what was the point of the United States at its inception? Have we gone from men willing to sacrifice their lives for the cause of righteousness to limp wristed acceptance of slavery conditions?

    It is my belief if we do so then we are no better than those trying to take away our freedom; then we deserve to have our freedoms removed. We are not humbly submitting, we are sheep at the slaughter, we are "victims" not "sacrifices." Victims do not have the power and ability to defend themselves-quite different than Christ's example.

    Because we have the right to defend ourselves AND have the power and ability to do so- this is what keeps this country different than the rest.

    This is sincerely troubling me, I am not trying to stir anyone up, I really need fellowship in this...

    (Please don't tell me that the 2nd is about hunting-that's just ignorant.)

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