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Priesthood Atonement

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. The sin atonement providing the forgiveness of sin for Israel was never dependent upon the congregation but upon the sin offering of the priest (Lev 4:20). Therefore without a priest there would be no forgiveness (Num 15:28); but this was to the exclusion of willful sins (Num 15:30) because “presumptuous” sin confirms the individual’s absence of faith in God’s word.​

    This is why Christ is the Priest of those who believe in Him. Thus forgiveness in the admission (confess) of sin (1 John 1:9) is made available by the priestly atonement of Christ, who is the “High Priest” (Heb 3:1) of His “Body, the Church” (Col 1:18).

    It may not be realized that God’s eternal covenant made with Abraham and his descendants did not come by the Law because “the promise” was made and settled “four-hundred and thirty years” prior to giving of the Law (Ten Commandments/sacrificial ordinances, etc.—Gal 3:17), which Law changed nothing concerning the promise.

    As it can be easily understood, Christ’s priesthood is not after the Law which, “was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come” and also so “that the offence might abound” (Gal 3:19; Rom 5:20). To be a priest under the Law one would need to be from the tribe of Levi after the Aaronic order and Christ was after the tribe of Judah, thus the works of the believer does not attain or retain his standing in the Father (only reveals it). The believer’s place is determined by Christ’s Cross-work which makes, “us accepted in the Beloved (Jesus)” (Ehp 1:6).


    -NC
     
  2. I think you may be oversimplifying a bit on a good theme, chaplain, or I misunderstand you.

    The thing the priests offered is not a "magical thing", but a symbol of the Lamb to come.

    Any atonement for a man's sins in the OT involved the individual sinner coming to the priest and supplying the items God required. A minimum of two people was required.

    There was also the entire nation coming to the Sanctuary at Yom Kippur , the national Day of Atonement.

    Nothing is ever done by the priests alone as far as atonement goes...it requires a willing sinner and a new heart.
     
  3. Hi Rusty - I understand your meaning but the overriding concept of the thread is to reveal that the atonement for sin, which provides the forgiveness, is never related to the believer's actions (other than faith) but the actions of God--through a priest, for "the priest shall make atonement for them," as shown in my first two Scripture references. Of-course now the Priesthood being changed (Jesus--Heb 7:12) the believer's forgiveness comes by His atonement, which never came by works. Though works are not a part of attaining and retaining of salvation, they do reveal the presence of it, at least to the believer and they "glorify God" (Matt 5: 16).
     
  4. Well...I understood the "over riding concept" but had some problems with what I saw as faulty statements...which I posted.

    I also question that Christ did no works for our atonement...The very fact that He would consent to being a human being is a work, a thing done, an act....Same thing as dying for me....He didn't stay in heaven and mentally "have faith" about the absolute necessity of His incarnation....He did the work of coming.
     

  5. My mistake also, as I should have clarified that "which never came by works" is in reference our works, not Christ's.
     
    Rusty likes this.
  6. Ah....That's quite different....Thanks.

    As for humans: But do you mean no works, or merit, earned or qualifying works....?

    We certainly have to come to Him, repent, trust in Him, all works of a human coupled to His power...We have an action part, do we not?...Or are you suggestion absolute inaction and robotics (which I doubt you do)
     
  7. It's not that the believer is obligated to works but rather desires works and these are never grounds for merit but evidences of Grace within, e.g. one's salvation is not attained or retained by works, but works evinces the presence of salvation.

    I believe that in every Christian the Spirit works (Gal 5:17) and the Father works (Phil 2:13). If one claims to be saved and his life is absent of good works, he is not of God because "He that doeth good (according to Scripture) is of God" (1 John 1:11).

    As for losing salvation, the concept reveals ignorance of the fact that God already knows if the one receiving salvation is going to remain in it and there's no benefit in the concept that God would give salvation to someone whom He knows would loose it. He already knows all who are His.
     
  8. Ummm....I think you are missing my point somewhat: Do we or so we not HAVE to respond (by an action) to God in order to repent and be saved?

    We must do something (come, follow, repent, give, trust) in order for Him to do His will in us. Just as the earthly priest and sinner must co-operate in your example, so must the High Priest and sinner.

    You seem to arguing somethings I have not even brought up....
     
  9. I agree that their is something we do, but it does not do the saving but allows us to be saved. Our part is faith, which is not what we are saved by--but "through"--for it is the grace we are saved "by" (Eph 2:8). I believe even our faith is not self-manufactured but is also given by the Spirit (grace), being included in His fruit to us (Gal 5:22).
     
  10. Ok...you started off by saying it "was never dependent on the congregation" and now it's "there is something we must do" a bit contradictory, but...well......This IS co-ordination....each having a separate and VOLUNTARY part to play...the human priest himself effected nothing..he had no power to atone. God did it, in His faith in the priest and sinner being willing to follow His symbolic ceremony.

    I'm not talking of human self-manufactured anything....I'm talking of human action....obedience, contrition...willingness...that God takes and amplifies as we let go of our own ways.

    Does this make sense?
     

  11. Just as our faith has its origin from God and not self, our willingness towards God originates from Him (John 6:44).

    The Father ministered atonement through the priest of the old dispensation, just as He does through the Priest in the new dispensation. The atonement has always been from the Father--through the priest--which now is Christ (Heb 3:1). This confirms that there is nothing man can do to make him a part in producing justification, just receiving it.
     
  12. My friend....Unless we obey His call...there is no "producing justification" for the individual.

    Humans are not robots: we must respond.

    Did Jesus say " Come unto Me" or "Stay where you are"?

    Did He say "Take my yoke upon you" or "Don't move: I'll drop the yoke on you."?

    Did He say "Go and sin no more" or "Do what ya like: I got ya covered?"
     
  13. I believe when anyone is truly doing the will of God, it's the Spirit working through the believer, not the believer working through the Spirit. Regardless of which acceptance the believer chooses to conclude, salvation is present--if they are a believer, which will show in what they do.
     
  14. I think that Christians cannot tell the difference usually: He just knows he wants Christ's way YET waits for instructions (another act). His desires become ours. I doubt seriously that we become God's puppet's, lose our conscience and free-will....

    But are we talking of the redeemed or the unsaved? I cannot muddle the two, personally.
     
  15. I know what you mean by puppets but that's not what God wants. Chat ya later!
     
    Rusty likes this.

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