Preventing Pregnancy Displeases Thee Lord

[Abdicate]

I've been to Mali, in West Africa, and let me tell you, those foodstuffs from the rich countries are destroying the farmers there because they cannot produce the food as cheaply as the west can so they stop farming, and because of what you said @Glomung.

As for the other matter I don't have any problems with stopping the seed from meeting with the egg and I see nowhere in the scriptures where it's wrong. I think too many want others to be under a Law, any Law, so they start making things up to put others under it to control them.

It's time to start living the word of God in the spirit and realize the word of God for what it is: a photo album of things spiritual. Too many cannot see past "Oooo! that's pretty" and actually live in the spirit realm of God.

1 John 4:17 (KJV)
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

It's not "in the world to come", but THIS world, NOW, TODAY!!

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

But seriously, why are we still on this topic? We should get our heads out of the bedroom and onto Christ. If a married couple in Christ decides they will or will not use contraceptions, what's it matter to us?

I know plenty Children of God who use it, and I'm sure there are plenty who don't. This isn't a pivotal issue, and if we really want an answer we should pray to God. Not argue with each other.

 

[Huntingteckel]

But seriously, why are we still on this topic? We should get our heads out of the bedroom and onto Christ. If a married couple in Christ decides they will or will not use contraceptions, what's it matter to us?

I know plenty Children of God who use it, and I'm sure there are plenty who don't. This isn't a pivotal issue, and if we really want an answer we should pray to God. Not argue with each other.

Because its important. I don't see it as a sin to use any form of birth control, but I can tell you from experience that I hate that I ever bought a box of condoms. Now I'm wondering if we already would have had a child if we hadn't used anything and I tell you it breaks my heart that I missed the possibility to have a son or daughter.

I worked father's day and everyone at work was asking if I had kids. I was nearly in tears by the end of the day because of it. That may sound dramatic, but anyone that can't have children knows exactly what I mean.

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Because its important. I don't see it as a sin to use any form of birth control, but I can tell you from experience that I hate that I ever bought a box of condoms. Now I'm wondering if we already would have had a child if we hadn't used anything and I tell you it breaks my heart that I missed the possibility to have a son or daughter.

I worked father's day and everyone at work was asking if I had kids. I was nearly in tears by the end of the day because of it. That may sound dramatic, but anyone that can't have children knows exactly what I mean.

Well that may be true for you, but believe it or not, some Christians don't want children (I do). I'm so sorry for the trouble you and your wife are having, but we shouldn't make this such an issue for everyone.

What are we going to accomplish through this thread? Is there going to be a final verdict that we can or cannot use contraceptions? No, of course not. It's going to end up like most threads with the moderator ending it and everyone staying on their own sides.

Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

What will the world think about Christ when they see his church arguing over personal matters such as this?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

On the one hand I think couples should have children, but on the other hand some might not do so well with their children. Should we really classify it as a sin? I believe Paul told us to not argue about laws and such, but things that are more important. It's like whether some man worships on Sunday or Saturday, does it really make a huge difference?

Colossians 2:20-22
If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings?

This isn't a legalistic subject in the slightest. Rather, it's a very theological and divine subject that ought to be addressed. I say this with all due respect, but this is hardly on the level of "worship on Sunday vs. Saturday." It's a subject of morality, marriage, life, and obedience to God.

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

This isn't a legalistic subject in the slightest. Rather, it's a very theological and divine subject that ought to be addressed. I say this with all due respect, but this is hardly on the level of "worship on Sunday vs. Saturday." It's a subject of morality, marriage, life, and obedience to God.

But it is being made a legalistic subject when you say it's objectively right or objectively wrong. In the Song of Solomon, were children ever mentioned? Did all the kings of old have children with every one of their concubines? Sex is between a man and a woman, and noone else. Yes God defines who we have sex with, but I wouldn't go so far as how.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I'm of a mind having more children than one can feed would displease the Lord.
Starving dying children around the world, bellies distended, flies crawling all over them, their screams slowly fading as they do, would displease the Lord. And yet we read of missionaries in those regions preaching that birth control displeases God. And that in turn says that those starving dying children clearly do not.

Proverbs 25:27 It is not good to eat much honey, nor is it glorious to seek one's own glory.

Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but this is the core argument for abortion. Granted, I think abortion is even worse because it's taking an actual life out of existence. However, the issue with birth control is that it interrupts the sanctity of marriage that God granted us. We decide what we want on our own personal terms and dismiss God.

Birth control has lead to a far higher divorce rate and infidelity. It has instilled this idea that we can objectify women by separating them from their fertility. It disconnects a huge part of marriage which is commitment, love, and total acceptance. And it also has changed the discussion of abortion from "Why do we know abortion to be wrong" to "When is it acceptable to abort" which even lead to "Don't even talk about it because it's a woman's choice."

This isn't meant to sound smug, but I think if people are truly committed to helping the unborn, they need to evaluate birth control again and review what it has done to the family, to marriage, and to life itself.

The argument of "Well, we can't let children starve to death" doesn't work with the birth control argument just as it doesn't work with the abortion argument.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

But it is being made a legalistic subject when you say it's objectively right or objectively wrong. In the Song of Solomon, were children ever mentioned? Did all the kings of old have children with every one of their concubines? Sex is between a man and a woman, and noone else. Yes God defines who we have sex with, but I wouldn't go so far as how.

Whenever we use contraceptives or means of birth control, we do go so far as saying how -- and that's not what we ought to do as marriage is meant to be in the confines of God. Just as marriage is truly between one man and one woman married under God, so is sex.

What is sex for? Who authored it? Can its roles be separated?

The reason why birth control is such a difficult issue is because within Christian groups, this is the hardest one for them to accept. They have accepted this for thousands of years up until about the late 1960s to the 1970s.

Just as we don't condone gay marriage because we don't have the authority to condone it, we also don't have the authority to condone contraception.

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Whenever we use contraceptives or means of birth control, we do go so far as saying how -- and that's not what we ought to do as marriage is meant to be in the confines of God. Just as marriage is truly between one man and one woman married under God, so is sex.

What is sex for? Who authored it? Can its roles be separated?

Again I think this just all goes back to Titus 3:9. I'm just gonna leave this thread.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Again I think this just all goes back to Titus 3:9. I'm just gonna leave this thread.

Just let me leave you with this thought...were the Christians before the mid-20th century all right in regards to contraception being wrong, or did the Christians who condone it from that point on finally get it right after 2000 years?

 

[Scripture Bird]

"I'm of a mind having more children than one can feed would displease the Lord. "

Would you think that perhaps the Lord might provide the food needed?

I think that question is answered in context to my prior statements if we look to the dying children in Africa.

The notion of refusing to have children because they may go hungry is a red herring.

No, it is not. It is responsibility and a matter of acting responsibly.
How does someone argue to have children they can not feed?

The children of the world are not starving because of their numbers or where they live. They are starving because their rulers
make it practically impossible for the peasantry to live in peace. The food can be grown if the farmers can tend their fields without onerous taxes, government interference, or warfare.

Any number of reasons can be brought to the table to argue why children starve to death. Those arguments do not fill bellies. Nor do they alleviate the suffering amid the offering of, shoulda, woulda, coulda, and cause.

With all those reasons, which are an example of lack of reason on the part of those responsible for starving their nations people to death, afforded as to why in the time it took you to read this far at least one more precious baby died of starvation, how does compassion and responsibility argue that it is acceptable to birth one more?

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

We could argue about laws and morality all day, but what we really need to do is keep ourselves in the freedom of Christ and his truth. These arguments literally help nothing but our own conscience, and even then it doesn't really help.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

We could argue about laws and morality all day, but what we really need to do is keep ourselves in the freedom of Christ and his truth. These arguments literally help nothing but our own conscience, and even then it doesn't really help.

Why would you even say that? Do we not have a Christian responsibility to reject sin and promote what is good?

With all due respect, why is it that every sinful issue is taken up in arms like gay marriage, abortion, vulgar behavior, yet contraception ought to not be discussed, reviewed, or even rejected? Why does that contraception get the pass? If we know that God utterly rejects abortion, and with very good reason, then why do we think birth control, which is second to it, totally embraced?

By no means am I saintly...I'm a sinner...but there's a real disconnect with this subject because so many now turn a blind eye to it in the name of convenience.

 

[Scripture Bird]

Would you think that perhaps the Lord might provide the food needed?

I would also say that I believe the Lord provided a solution to the suffering when he inspired birth control to come into being. All things come from God. Whomever thought of birth control arrived at that inspiration due to the God that knows and sees the need for it.


To CosmicWaffle: I would respectfully submit that they do help. They help to wake people up to the fact that faith without works is dead.

And perhaps if someone does awaken to the truth of those scriptures they'll commit some of their money and put it where it can serve those who are alive and starving most need it.

There are charities that sink wells in impoverished countries. There are charities that feed children, send doctors to care for the ill and infirm.

Charity Navigator is a website that assists in finding out what charity is legitimate in their receipt and dispersal of funds.

When we stand before God at the end of our living here we have to answer for what we've done. And what we did not do for the least of these.

When we can commit ourselves to arguing for more children in a world where those already born are starving to death, we will answer for what we did to save the living. While we argued for more babies to be born so they could starve too.

 

[Glomung]

Responsibility - an oddly used word, often used to justify all sorts of evil.

In other words, lets just stick to facetious justifications for living our lives the way we want to, instead of actually attempting to do the Lord's will.

 

[Where is the Messiah]

I would also say that I believe the Lord provided a solution to the suffering when he inspired birth control to come into being. All things come from God. Whomever thought of birth control arrived at that inspiration due to the God that knows and sees the need for it.


To CosmicWaffle: I would respectfully submit that they do help. They help to wake people up to the fact that faith without works is dead.

And perhaps if someone does awaken to the truth of those scriptures they'll commit some of their money and put it where it can serve those who are alive and starving most need it.

There are charities that sink wells in impoverished countries. There are charities that feed children, send doctors to care for the ill and infirm.

Charity Navigator is a website that assists in finding out what charity is legitimate in their receipt and dispersal of funds.

When we stand before God at the end of our living here we have to answer for what we've done. And what we did not do for the least of these.

When we can commit ourselves to arguing for more children in a world where those already born are starving to death, we will answer for what we did to save the living. While we argued for more babies to be born so they could starve too.

In my humble opinion birth control is no more God inspired than a gun.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I think that question is answered in context to my prior statements if we look to the dying children in Africa.

As someone who works for a Christian organization that explicitly focuses on hunger relief, I can't tell you how many contacts we get from people telling us we need to start advocating for more abortion and birth control. Both means do not provide dignity to life, but impedes life in a very undignified way and ignores the facts that all people are made in the image of God.

No, it is not. It is responsibility and a matter of acting responsibly.
How does someone argue to have children they can not feed?

How is marriage and sex not a responsibility?

Any number of reasons can be brought to the table to argue why children starve to death. Those arguments do not fill bellies. Nor do they alleviate the suffering amid the offering of, shoulda, woulda, coulda, and cause.

With all those reasons, which are an example of lack of reason on the part of those responsible for starving their nations people to death, afforded as to why in the time it took you to read this far at least one more precious baby died of starvation, how does compassion and responsibility argue that it is acceptable to birth one more?

We cannot choose the lesser of two evils. As Christians, we have a duty to promote what is good, not what is less evil.

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Why would you even say that? Do we not have a Christian responsibility to reject sin and promote what is good?

With all due respect, why is it that every sinful issue is taken up in arms like gay marriage, abortion, vulgar behavior, yet contraception ought to not be discussed, reviewed, or even rejected? Why does that contraception get the pass? If we know that God utterly rejects abortion, and with very good reason, then why do we think birth control, which is second to it, totally embraced?

By no means am I saintly...I'm a sinner...but there's a real disconnect with this subject because so many now turn a blind eye to it in the name of convenience.

Why call yourself a sinner?Are we not saints by the blood of Jesus Christ?

The problem with most of these threads is it is some man or woman who feel a need to make their relationship with God better by arguing for or against a certain issue. It is not loving and really these topics only come up because of fear.

In Jesus Christ we are given a new identity as children who stand right before God!

The reason I ask "Why does this matter?" is because if you are righteous in Christ your focus isn't so much on if you are doing or believing things that are right or not, save the Word of God. The Holy Spirit shows us what we are to avoid and we do because we believe we are dead to sin, and no longer alive to it.

But when we sit here and strive about topics we are just trying to justify our beliefs so we feel better in our relationship with God. We are already righteous! Our focus should be on bringing people to that right relationship with him again, not striving about whether or not we block semen!

 

[LysanderShapiro]

But seriously, why are we still on this topic? We should get our heads out of the bedroom and onto Christ. If a married couple in Christ decides they will or will not use contraceptions, what's it matter to us?

Because marriage is a holy commitment; a vocation. It's not something that two people simply do because it's nice.

I know plenty Children of God who use it, and I'm sure there are plenty who don't. This isn't a pivotal issue, and if we really want an answer we should pray to God. Not argue with each other.

Of course it's pivotal. It's a subject of telling God "God, you're welcome in OUR marriage, but when we go to bed, you'll have to take a hike." We don't stop being Christians in the bedroom. Our Christian duty continues in every single activity.

The idea that certain sins can be taken or left is damning.