Discussion in 'Evangelism' started by ABabeInChrist, Sep 18, 2014.
Any thoughts on this subject???
Preaching the Gospel is a good thing! Habitually sinning is not good, but it is not something that should stop us from sharing the Gospel.
Interesting question! It also depends on how we define habitual sin? For example, laziness could be a habitual sin.. Pornography is also habitual sin.. I hope everyone can agree that they are not the same.. So what degree of habitual sin we are talking about?
1 John 3:9
"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
I believe this verse is talking about the habitual sin. We all sin, and in my case if I do sin the Holy Spirit lets me know pretty quick like. If we are in habitual sin then the Holy Spirit won't be flowing through us. Granted if this person is sharing the gospel it could bring someone to know Jesus but he/she isn't going to be blessed in that ministry without breaking free from that sin.
That's a good answer. What if someone is battling with a habitual sin that's turned into an addiction like drugs or sex. Would they be preaching the Gospel while they're free for a period of time from that addiction or should they fix the issue permanantly first before preaching the word.
1Co 9:27 KJV But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
We will be disciplined by Yahweh if we fall into unrepentant sin and could lose the priviledge of representing Him.
If you are looking for a Pastor or leader without sin - you are looking in vain..... Jesus was the ONLY ONE Ever!
See... This is a common trap used to destroy otherwise good ministries and leaders....
Well... Why should I listen to YOU? You Smoke/Drink/Swear/etc...... You cannot be a GODLY MAN!
Look at Moses... He was a Murderer and he sinned against God by failing to follow through on specific prophetic instructions....
King David was a Murderer and an Adulterer and HE sinned against God by taking a census of Israel... and personally brought God's Destroyer against the People of Israel....
Paul was in jail more than he was out of Jail... and the most of his epistles were written FROM JAIL.... He eventually was beheaded by the Romans BECAUSE of jealousy and hatred stirred up within the Church....
See... You have to understand.... We are all broken vessels.... We ALL fall short of the Glory of God. 100% of us.... We have ENCOURAGED a Church culture where people are forced to HIDE this nature because Those inside the church will destroy anyone showing signs of "Sin".... AKA.. We have ENCOURAGED "Skandalon" - setting Traps designed to destroy eachother and our ministries.... Is this right? Absolutely not.
But.. This does not mean that GOD is not faithful.... and it does not mean that God cannot send instruction THROUGH a broken vessel....
Should you follow a false prophet? No.
Should you follow a leader enticing you to sin or to cause others to sin? No.
But.. Should you reject a leader out of hand because he has sin? Not necessarily.
Just to let you know i had no intention of using this subject as a trap haha. But great response!
Paul was in jail because he was preaching the Gospel not because he was in habitual sin, huge difference here.
If we consider habitual sin is unrepentant sin then Paul said to remove them from the congregation.
1Co 5:9-13 NIV I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- (10) not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. (11) But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. (12) What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? (13) God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you."
Is habitual sin unrepentant sin ?
My specific reference is that the MANY first century "Christian Leaders" used Paul's frequent in-jail status as a source of Scandal and as a way to reject his teachings....
Think... Would you personally stand behind and champion a Pastor as "Authoritative" for YOUR OWN church - especially in a high leadership or missionary position that was HABITUALLY in the clink - even if for theoretically "Good" reason?
I guarantee you that 95% of churches would reject that fellow out of hand.... Especially those here in the USA....
There is a minister I listen to and read books from who is always being called a false teacher and such. In Paul's days this minister would be in jail and yes I would still listen and do listen to him. People in this day and age go from church to church, place to place like it is no big thing. So yeah I agree with you that people would throw that preacher to the wolves becaue they aren't grounded or rooted in the Word of God.
p.s. that minister isn't JO
KJV is slightly different. Although fornication is being sexually immoral, but I think that what Paul means is that if someone doesn't care to battle with the sin that they're doing then don't be involved in that person because all Christians will do this but it's a matter of your brother or sister trying to defeat that sin is what matters.
KJV 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
What if a preacher is battling with his sin, he's repenting, but is obviously having a challenge with something. I think really a lot do but it can be kept secret because reputation which i fully understand
This is why I loved Rich Mullins! He didn't hide his issues and openly spoke of them. No one is perfect in this life. We don't have the new body yet, but it doesn't give us an excuse to sin either. For those that are His, there is no condemnation to those that walk in the Spirit.
What does this mean to you ?
Rom 8:1 KJV There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:1 (KJV)
[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:1 (ESV2011)
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Some claim this isn't in the original, but does it matter because here's another verse that says the same thing:
Romans 8:4 (KJV)
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 (ESV2011)
in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
There is an important word in this first verse: therefore. This is the "conclusion" clause. So what is it concluding? The previous verse, which is:
Romans 7:24-25 (KJV)
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
What's the conclusion? Because we are wrestling in our flesh with our flesh we are wretched. The escape is what I've been saying for months, WITH THE MIND I server the law of God... the flesh will always serve sin. It's a matter of the heart, plain and simple. Heart, mind, and soul are all the same. They are housed in our bodies, not our brain. The brain is just a big calculator which sums up our experiences and executes judgment of an event and sends the verdict to our heart-mind-soul with the information it has - complete or not, right or wrong. Everything about God is fulfilled in faith via the heart-mind-soul. The brain only attempts to sort it all out. This is why, after we're saved, it's our battle ground. All our lives we've been taught by OUR experiences or told what to think by the world. When we are Christians, we have to put away these negative, wrong, judgmental thoughts that influence our heart-mind-soul. Hence this verse:
Romans 12:2 (KJV)
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
HOW exactly is this done?
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
This has nothing to do with the soul's destination, but peace in our hearts now, here, on earth. If we live in the ways of the old man and never put him to death then we have no peace.
Here it is: strongholds! They are the patterns of false beliefs we've judged incorrectly. "I'm not loved." "No one loves me." "God hates me." "I'm ugly." "I'm... [fill in the blank]." All these thoughts, have generated a feeling which is a belief, that is stored in your heart-mind-soul physically in your body. So the cure? Casting down imaginations and EVERY high thing that makes it greater than the knowledge God has given us in His word. So, for example, when an event happens like you're at a gathering and no one talks to you, your heart-mind-soul stirs up a feeling of self-love triggering self-pity triggering anger and the brain says "This sucks!" so you walk away reinforcing "I'm not loved." "No one loves me." which leads to "God hates me." So what do you do? When those feelings/beliefs crop up, you have to claim the word of God:
John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
"I am loved!" We all must retrain our heart-mind-souls via our thoughts, speaking them with our lips. And speak forgiveness, which means "to send away". What are we sending away? Those negative wrong thoughts and feelings.
Proverbs 13:2a (KJV)
A man shall eat good by the fruit of [his] mouth: ...
So strong is this that if we speak evil words "I'm not loved" we'll live by those words. If we speak pure words "I am loved by God" then we'll live by those words, and both will influence what is stored as a belief in the heart-mind-soul of our bodies.
This isn't "positive thinking" but "positive believing". Here's the word of God:
Proverbs 12:6 (KJV)
The words of the wicked [are] to lie in wait for blood: but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them.
See here: the MOUTH shall deliver.
Proverbs 18:8 (KJV)
The words of a talebearer [are] as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.
Our experiences are stored in our body which is the heart-mind-soul. Think of something you're fearful of. Try and remember why. Let's say at three year's old you were holding a cookie and out of no where this big german shepherd comes and snatches it out of your hand. You experienced it, it brought fear and you stored that experience within your "belly". Now you're 21 and have this unhealthy fear of dogs. Which was it? A memory or an experience? You may not even remember the incident, but it was stored within you, and the FEELING of fear of dogs is present. Should you happen to learn the truth, you can rejudge the experience as trivial, and remove the feeling/belief! Now you can get a dog without fear!
A simple example, but true. So what's all this got to do with Romans 8:1? Jesus died for all our sins. We are free from sin. Period. The end. Yet we still fight Romans 7 issues, why? Because we still have to fight our experiences, our beliefs, our thoughts, our heart-mind-soul, our feelings. When we get them in line with the word of God our actions change and we cease from sin and move on to perfection, Hebrews 6:1-2.
Those that choose not to renew their minds, live under constant condemnation if they are truly saved.
Romans 8:7-8 (KJV)
Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
I hope this answers your question.
Thanks it tells me what it means to you yes. Do you believe a Christian is ever judged and disciplined for sin ?
Thanks for a great response to apply in my Christian life
Hebrews 12:8 (KJV)
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.