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Pre-mid-post Trib And Why? (scriptural Evidence)

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Servant in San Jose, Aug 30, 2012.

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Are you Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib (Pan-Trib doesn't count here)

  1. Pre

    50.0%
  2. Mid

    25.0%
  3. Post

    25.0%
  1. Though i'm new here, i'm sure this has been hashed and rehashed as in every other forum i've ever been a part of, i'd still like to hear from you on this.
    This is actually limited to those who have one of the theologies mentioned above.
    Not that i want to disclude the preterist/amillennialism point of view, but i'm aware of their stand already.
    Oh and "Pan-Trib" doesn't count! LOL

    Thanks and many blessings to my brothers and sisters in the Lord!
     
  2. OK, I think a little more explanation might be in order here. Either that or I'm just not getting something. 'Cause I haven't the faintest what you are talking about. :) So, please, explain further?
     
  3. Welcome my friend.

    Since you are new allow me to be the one to tell you that this question has been debated, talked about, argued over and kicked around more times than I can remember just as you stated it has been done elsewhere.

    The bottom line is that this thread will have to be closed in due time because there is so much disagrement over your question. I think it is because some tend to lose their temper when others do not agree with them and then it takes on a personal nature instead of apologetics, which leads the mods to close the thread and rightly so I might add.

    But anyway........., Personally I do believe in the pre-trib theology because to me it allow s all the pieces of prophetic Scripture to fall perfectly into place.
     
  4. You are correct my friend. It is all about the prophetic Word of God concerning the Second Coming of Christ and the events surrounding it. One of those events is called the Rapture and the other is the Kingdom of Christ or the 1000 year reign of Christ

    Please forgive me if I am being presumcious here, but it seems as if you are saying you are not aware of this teaching. If that is the case allow me say this to you...............that there are----

    Five Interpretations - The interpretation one gives the book of Revelation will obviously determine its message. There are four basis interpretations that are worthy of note.
    • Futurist Interpretation - The futurist view, which seems to me to be the one that makes the most sense, accepts the book of Revelation as prophecy that primarily is yet to be fulfilled, particularly from chapter 4 on. This was the interpretation of the early church during its most evangelistic history, from the apostles until the fourth century. Today it is the accepted position by most pre-millennial Bible teachers. A safe rule to follow in the study of the book of Revelation is to accept the book as literal unless the facts are obviously to the contrary.
    • Historical Interpretation - The historical view suggest that John was describing the major events that would take place during the history of the Church. It therefore suggests that we can see these events as we look back at history. This, of course, calls for the juggling of historical events to fit the prophecy. This is historically unsound and tends to distort the plain or literal meaning.
    • Spiritualizing Interpretation - There are those who believe everything in the book should be taken figuratively or metaphorically, that John was talking about a spiritual conflict and not a physical experience. This view is held by most amillennalist and post-millennialists. Until the turn of the century, post-millennialism gained many followers with the idea that the world was getting better and better and we were about to usher in the kingdom. The perpetual degeneracy of communist dictators have rendered this a most untenable position.
    • Allegory Interpretation - A symbolic system in a narrative that allows it to generate a second level of meaning, which develops in tandem with the primary narrative. The symbolic system may refer to myth, a historic figure, an earlier narrative, or an abstract idea. The reader understands early on that interpretive possibilities are limited by this structure. Example: A story in which the characters, settings, and events stand for abstract or moral concepts. Another example: An object or scene that is associated with a certain event or time of year. (ie. Grapes are allegorical of autumn for that is when they are harvested.) This is method used by Catholicism.
    • Preterist Interpretation - The preterist view holds that John wrote the book prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and was referring to events of his own day. This requires mental gymnastics that are unnecessary if one would apply the Golden Rule of Interpretation. The Roman emperors Nero or Domitian could scarcely fulfill the requirements of this book for the Antichrist, much less the desecration of the temple for 42 months or for the worldwide cataclysms that are yet future.
    Pre Millennialism - The Oldest View - The pre millennial view is the view that holds that Christ will return to earth, literally and bodily, before the millennial age begins and that, by His presence, a kingdom will be instituted over which He will reign. In this kingdom all of Israel's covenants will be literally fulfilled. It will continue for a thousand years, after which the kingdom will be given by the Son to the Father when it will merge with His eternal kingdom. The central issue in this position is whether the Scriptures are to be fulfilled literally or symbolically.
    In fact, this is the essential heart of the entire question. Generally speaking, one's view of interpreting the Scriptures determines whether or not he or she is a pre-millennialist. For the most part, all who believe the Bible to be literal are pre millennialists. Some Bible scholars, however, separate prophecy from other passages. They interpret the rest of the Bible literally, but whenever they come to prophecy, and particularly the book of Revelation, they tend to spiritualize it. Only in taking the Bible other than literally can a person be anything but a pre millennialist.

    I hope this helps you and if I am incorrect in my assumption, please forgive me and delete it all.
     
    KingJ and faeriecat say Amen and like this.
  5. Pray for the best (pre-trib) and prepare for the worst (post trib) that would make me a Pan trib (see how it all pans out)
     
  6. Thank you Major, and yes, I'm very un-knowledgeable and been learning a lot. I will read that post more when I get home. :)
     
  7. You are very welcome.
     
  8. No trib. I agree with R.C. Sproul in post millinialism Google his free online video series on the last days according to Jesus.
     
  9. Kevin. That was a most diplomatic and commendable way to phrase that........all I can say is ditto.
     
  10. for what it's worth i was raised a pre-trib pentecostal in the aog and foursquare communities.

    That said, so far in my own personal study over the past 20+ years i've seen reasonable argument for all 3 schools
    regarding this highly volatile and controversial subject.

    The 2 things that hang me up are:
    1. The use of the word "keep" in Revelation 3:10
    2: Rahab in Josh 6 who's house was built into the wall.
    Though the walls were destroyed, Rahab and all with her were "kept" through the destruction and then
    delivered by Joshua.

    i also think these 2 witnesses spoken of in rev 8 could be the 2 churches not given warning to repent. (Smyrna and Philadelphia) as during the great falling away the other 5 were dispersed and the true believers from each one become part of the 2 remaining.

    The other thing and i just heard this recently is; Why warn the church over and over again about anti-christ if the church wasn't going to be there?

    Blessings
     
  11. Got that line from an incredible bible teacher - David Pawson.

    The thing is with the study of the end times is that there are so many scriptures which can support most views so to get into arguments over who is right and who is wrong is futile. Pretty much like the disciples who argued about who would be the most important in the kingdom of heaven.

    The thing is that God's will is going to take place regardless of our interpretations and instead of argueing and getting upset and arrogantly defending our positions we should be out there spreading the good news before Christ returns. Christ is not going to judge us on our theological correctness of pre-trib, mid trib, post trib, dispensationalism etc etc etc, He is going to judge us on what have we been doing about the great commission.

    The signs of Christ's return are printed across the pages of every newspaper in the world on a daily basis and we should take them with urgency. The apostles also expected the return of Christ in their life time, did this make them wrong? No. It made them effective!
     
    Major likes this.
  12. Funny, that's exactly why i added the "pan-trib" note at the end of the opening post on this thread.

    i don't think it has to become a heated debate and it won't as long as personal agendas aren't the goal.

    And yes, the great commission is what is paramount in the life of every believer!

    Blessings
     
    Major likes this.
  13. Hang around and see how heated it can become.

    Tell a pre-trib that they may have to go through the tribulation or tell a Preterist that these thing will still happen and the sparks start flying.

    The thing is many people hang on to the teachings they have had over the years and have spent very little time studying the other theories so they have a one sided point of view.

    The fact is that scriptures, especially prophetic scriptures can have a "short term" fulfilment and a "long term fulfilment" so it makes it difficult to really understand them. It is like looking at a mountain range from a distance and we see the peaks but we cannot see the distance between the peaks. Check out how the Pharisees misunderstood the prophetic scriptures concerning Jesus to the point they crucified Him. They were completely convinced that the Messiah would establish an earthly rule and overthrow the governments of the day. When Jesus overthrew the religious rule they threw their toys out the bath. The Pharisees did not see that the Messiah would have two comings - how sure are we today that we have got it right? Will we also "crucify" Jesus when He comes again because He doesnt measure up to our expectations or understandings of theology? I can tell you this, if we spend our time extending the gospel we will recognise Christ when He returns!

    I have spent many hours studying the end times and also spent many hours debating and arguing with people (on this site as well) trying to convince them of my understanding of the end times (which happens to lie more towards post-trib) with the end result of just creating hatred and hurt (of which I have repented of). I still have my "biased" understanding of the end times but have realised that there are more important things to debate and have discussion on.

    I find it amusing some times when the people who dispute the preterist or historical positions often make the same mistakes by trying to fit modern day events into the prophetic calendar :)
     
  14. i mentioned the preterist view in the opening post too.
    i think it requires twisting scripture for many of the ideas i've heard and read on forums to work contextually, but
    hey that's why i started this thread; simply to hear what people believe and why scripturally they hold their view.

    Blessings
     
  15. Pre-trib rapture without the smallest doubt!

    Common sense tells me that we are protected from God's wrath by the blood of Jesus. Exactly like the Jews who had to put blood on their doors when God's wrath hit the Egyptians.

    Common sense tells me that the devil / anti-christ CANNOT do as they please / fully have their way until we Christians are gone. Last I recall demons RAN from Jesus and since we have Jesus....it should be rather obvious.

    So MANY examples in the bible of how God delivers His people from '''''His''''' wrath. The trumpets hitting earth during the tribulation are His wrath on earth. I really DO NOT understand the confusion. It is rather simple and merely adding 2+2 to form what should be a painfully obvious conclusion.

    If the anti-christ was in my country I would bind him and cast the evil spirit into swine. Does anyone here honestly think I have not got the power in Jesus to do that? :)

    May I remind us as well that we can eat poison (un-intentionally) and not die...kind of makes the effects of the one trumpet causing water to be infected of nil effect.
     
  16. I have a different understanding...................I call it Multitrib. There are points that appeal in most if not all of the above 'tribia', so whatever Jesus is, I'll go with that.
     
    Rumely likes this.
  17. You are very correct my friend. Preterist is one theory in which the outcome must be forced into the Scriptures.
     
  18. Agreed!

    I also have studied all the theology concerning this question, and the Pre-trib is the one that maes the most logical sence to ME. That doe snot mean it it the correct one, only that it is to ME. It answereed my questions and gave proper context to the Scriptures without me having to "force" anything to make them acceptable.

    One must remember this one Biblical fact.......The Tribulation is all about the Jews, the nation of Israel and how God is going to deal with them in that time.
     
  19. Servant.......If I may,

    1.
    Rev. 3:10 is the promise that they will be kept FROM (Not through) the hour of temptation, which is the Tribulation peroid of chapters 6-19, that has come upon all the world of those who have completely settled upon the earth.

    2.
    The city was destroyed but God saved her and her family which is a picture of the grace of God not a picture of the church going through the Tribulation period. That would be the act of "forcing" what we think into what is actually written.

    The saving of her house was part of the miracle since it was part of the city wall (Heb. 11:30-31). This is not to mean that there is any validity to the idea that her house remained intact, BUT rather her FAMILY remained intact.

    How can I say that??? Because God is not interested in HOUSES but He is interested in People!

    "and Joshua saved rahad the harlot alive and her father's HOUSEHOLD".

    3.
    The same reason we warn unbelievers of the coming judgment of God.
    The same reason we tell our children to be careful.
     
  20. This is what i was referring to when i said scriptural evidence.
    Not our opinion, but just what we read.

    3 Hebrew boys were kept through the fiery furnace.
    Daniel was kept in the lion's den.

    Also, there are 2 houses Jesus speaks of; one built on sand and one on the Rock.
    Yet He says the following regarding both houses.
    24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and [o]acts on them, [p]may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the[q]floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not [r]act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the [s]floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

    We are not appointed to wrath, but i don't believe we see God's wrath before chapter 6 of revelation 6:14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the [m]commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the [n]presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

    Blessings


     

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