Poll on hell

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by KingJ, Oct 23, 2014.

?

What do you believe?

  1. Universalism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Annihilation

    17.6%
  3. Eternal torture

    55.9%
  4. Eternal torment / limited suffering

    26.5%
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  1. I was referring to the matter being raised on this forum and in this thread. Sorry for the confusion.
    Actually I have very little interest in this topic since I have Jesus' assurance that I will not go there. I probably won't even ever know what colour the walls are painted (if there are walls that is)
     
  2. It's always good to have interest though. There's a lot of false beliefs floating around, and you wanna be prepared to defend your way.

    2 Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
     
  3. Yes I think I remember reading that somewhere:)
    Point I made is not changed . There is no human language that can adequately describe things for which we have no direct comparisons.
    Zec 4:2. And he said to me, "What do you see?" I said, "I see, and behold, a lampstand all of gold, with a bowl on the top of it, and seven lamps on it, with seven lips on each of the lamps that are on the top of it.
    Zec 4:3. And there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left."
    Zec 4:4. And I said to the angel who talked with me, "What are these, my lord?"
    Zec 4:5. Then the angel who talked with me answered and said to me, "Do you not know what these are?" I said, "No, my lord."
    Zec 4:6. Then he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of hosts.
    have fun with this passage.
     
  4. Yes I want to tell people how Good the Lord is...therefore I worship Him, not how scary hell is so I worsh the Lord to keep from getting fried.
     
  5. Simple, it was a vision. It's actually considered "The fifth vision". It is a vision, similar to Matt 17 Transfiguration.
     
  6. #366 calvin, Apr 11, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
    Verse 6 relates back to verse 5 which relates back to verse 4 and so on.
    When asked what (note..what) are the two Olive trees and the bowl and the other things, the angel replies, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of hosts.
    Did the angel change the subject here or was there something about those items which in some way relate to the Spirit of God, ?
    In this instance was the Spirit being represented in some way by common ceremonial items or the way the Spirit works in our lives to accomplish things ?
    have fun with it.
     
  7. Spirits are considered breath and wind? Where ? What are they talking about ?
     
  8. Except for maybe that Jesus had not gone to the cross yet in the OT and He had not taken back the keys of death yet. Perhaps when Jesus took the saints of old home with Him after he defeated death might be a huge factor too.

    Until the cross and after the cross makes a huge difference what happened after death.
    Blessings
     
  9. The Hebrew and Greek translations for spirit is breath or wind. The Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek. God breathed the breath of life into us. So therefore man is not a spirit, rather man has a spirit.

    Scripture actually says we sleep in Jesus until the first resurrection 1 Thess 4:14. So why would death be any different in the NT than the OT..

    Job 10:18-22 NIV “Why then did you bring me out of the womb? I wish I had died before any eye saw me. 19If only I had never come into being, or had been carried straight from the womb to the grave! 20Are not my few days almost over? Turn away from me so I can have a moment’s joy 21before I go to the place of no return, to the land of gloom and utter darkness, 22to the land of deepest night, of utter darkness and disorder, where even the light is like darkness.”

    Job 14:10-15 NIV But a man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more. 11As the water of a lake dries up or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, 12so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep. 13“If only you would hide me in the grave and conceal me till your anger has passed! If only you would set me a time and then remember me! 14If someone dies, will they live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewal to come. 15You will call and I will answer you; you will long for the creature your hands have made.

    Psa 6:4-5 NIV Turn, Lord, and deliver me; save me because of your unfailing love. 5Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?

    Psa 30:9 NIV "What is gained if I am silenced, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?

    Psa 88:9-12 NIV my eyes are dim with grief. I call to you, Lord, every day; I spread out my hands to you. 10Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you? 11Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction ? 12Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?

    Eccl 9:5 NIV For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

    Isa 38:18 NIV For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness

    - ATP
     
  10. Thanks for the scriptures but it still does not tell me a thing.


    The Hebrew and Greek translations for spirit is breath or wind. The Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek. God breathed the breath of life into us. So therefore man is not a spirit, rather man has a spirit.
    I asked you to show me why you say spirits are breath or wind and have no shape or body ?

    As to the death part.
    How do you take this scripture..........2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
    8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
     
  11. Death only looks like sleeping, but when our spirits leave our bodies to go to God, our bodies cannot live. Our flesh will rot in the ground, but our spirits are with God. On resurrection day, we will reunite with our new bodies recreated as glorified flesh--like Jesus' body.

    So---no one sleeps, but all are destined to physically die, except for the last generation of believers who will rise translated to glory without seeing death.
     
  12. Of course breath and wind doesn't have a shape or body. God the Father does not obtain a body, because the Father is a spirit. Our spirits are but breath and wind because God breathed the breath of life into us. When you study scripture always go to the Hebrew and Greek. As you can see in John 3:8, "pneuma" is used both for wind and spirit..http://biblehub.com/text/john/3-8.htm

    Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

    John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

    In order to understand the passage correctly, you must expand on its context.

    Notice that 1 Cor 15:50-54 and 2 Cor 5:1-10 both speak of the first resurrection, immortality and being swallowed up.

    1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

    2 Cor 5:1-10 NIV For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7For we live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

    God is simple, and his message is simple. Sleep is just that, it is sleep.

    Job 14:12 so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep.

    Psalm 13:3 NIV Look on me and answer, LORD my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death,

    Matt 9:23-24 When Jesus entered the synagogue leader’s house and saw the noisy crowd and people playing pipes, 24he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.” But they laughed at him.

    Acts 7:54-60 NIV When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.
     
  13. Thanks for replying but I am still not sold. ;)
    Spirit beings do have form !! They operate in the second heaven and must slow down to our 3 dementional realm in order to be seen.

    The Holy Spirt filled the rooms and everything in them as a rushing loud wind in acts.
    Spiritual beings.........if they were just air or wind why would they be called Beings?
     
  14. #374 ATP, Apr 11, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
    God the Father is a spirit being because He is the origin of life. The reason that we die is because God takes the breath of life out of us and then gives it back at the first resurrection. How do we live with God in heaven without the breath of life. How does that work?
     
  15. Those scriptures will take longer then I have to write down tonight. It's late and I am so tired.
    I will see if I can get online tomorrow and bring some info for you. Think of it like this. Spirit man or flesh.......natural man unsaved man.......Born again man.....spirit man AND the spirit of God placed in us. If a man never got born again.........what could suffer in hell if he did not have a spirit? Souls is mind, will and emotions.

    Blessings
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  16. The only reason we are alive now is because of the breath of life. When we die the breath of life is taken away.

    1. God formed man from the dust
    2. God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
    3. Only then did the man become a living being

    Gen 2:7 NIV Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

    1. and the dust returns to the ground it came from
    2. and the breath of life returns to God who gave it

    Eccl 12:7 NIV and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    Good night, we'll talk tomorrow. - ATP
     
  17. ATP, are you sure Lazarus and the certain rich man is a parable? Check the parables again and sees if something is not different here.
     
  18. Hades is not the grave from what I can see, remember Hades and death are cast into the lake of fire, so what is death then. Hades are temp hell for unbelievers before judgement occurs. Our you think not?
     
  19. I agree with Euphemia, our earthly bodies may die, the spirit within is goes on forever. And as such, we are already part of eternity, we just do not fully grasp it as yet.
     
  20. Something else, how did the rich man recognise both Lazarus and Abraham if they were only a wind like spirit. No, they must look like they did on earth, Abraham also recognised the rich man as he was in Hades, so he surely looked like he used to. So all three must have received bodies looking like is used to be on earth, and yet, different.
     
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