Poll on hell

What do you believe?

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Euphemia said:
What scripture??
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Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jesus saying it was prepared for the devil and angels does not mean it was not prepared for us too.

It is a common atheist argument to suggest that God is evil in that He sends humans to a hell that was prepared for the angels. It's like sending juveniles to maximum security.
 
Juk said:
Yeah, but you said that the torture part of hell is due to being away from God. But what would be a good explanation for the fires that are in hell? You can have fire even on earth, where God is present. I am not explaining myself correctly.
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I see -- you're asking how fire could be something of hell when fire itself is a neutral thing. To begin, not every Christian believes hell is literally fire and brimstone -- but that it is LIKE fire and brimstone only to our understanding. They may believe that these are metaphors for what hell is. I don't think it's any kind of heresy to question whether the fires of hell are literal or symbolic so long as one accepts that hell is a real place and that souls do actually go there.

But let's say for a moment that fire and brimstone is literal in describing hell, because it's quite possible and I tend to think so...this is not fire you'd find on earth. There is nothing earthly about hell and all of the fictitious depictions we get of hell can only go so far if they can go anywhere at all. So if the hell described is literal, you can't count on the fire to be the same fire you've experienced in your life.
 
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KingJ said:
Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jesus saying it was prepared for the devil and angels does not mean it was not prepared for us too.

It is a common atheist argument to suggest that God is evil in that He sends humans to a hell that was prepared for the angels. It's like sending juveniles to maximum security.
Click to expand...

That is true but I know that you have heard the legal term of ....."Guilty by association".

Think of all the Bible verses that contradict your thinking KingJ.

John 3:16 for one.......
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

Verse 18.......
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

We go to heaven by association with the Lord Jesus and since that is Biblically true the opposite would be just as true or God would be a respecter of persons.

Rev. 20:10:
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever ".
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I see -- you're asking how fire could be something of hell when fire itself is a neutral thing. To begin, not every Christian believes hell is literally fire and brimstone -- but that it is LIKE fire and brimstone only to our understanding. They may believe that these are metaphors for what hell is. I don't think it's any kind of heresy to question whether the fires of hell are literal or symbolic so long as one accepts that hell is a real place and that souls do actually go there.

But let's say for a moment that fire and brimstone is literal in describing hell, because it's quite possible and I tend to think so...this is not fire you'd find on earth. There is nothing earthly about hell and all of the fictitious depictions we get of hell can only go so far if they can go anywhere at all. So if the hell described is literal, you can't count on the fire to be the same fire you've experienced in your life.
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Yeah, I think that fictional fire would make more sense and fall in line with what you have said before.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I see -- you're asking how fire could be something of hell when fire itself is a neutral thing. To begin, not every Christian believes hell is literally fire and brimstone -- but that it is LIKE fire and brimstone only to our understanding. They may believe that these are metaphors for what hell is. I don't think it's any kind of heresy to question whether the fires of hell are literal or symbolic so long as one accepts that hell is a real place and that souls do actually go there.

But let's say for a moment that fire and brimstone is literal in describing hell, because it's quite possible and I tend to think so...this is not fire you'd find on earth. There is nothing earthly about hell and all of the fictitious depictions we get of hell can only go so far if they can go anywhere at all. So if the hell described is literal, you can't count on the fire to be the same fire you've experienced in your life.
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I agree. IMO hell will be much, much worse than what our minds can conceive of today.
 
I think you are right Major. That is why I am grateful to Jesus for making it such that I will not be there.
 
YEs, true, we cannot comprehend hell in all it's glory - if that expression can be used.
Can you imagine worms that eat you, and never stops. But now, if something is being eaten it surely would get less and less until nothing remains. So does that mean whatever the worms are eating is being regenerated in some way that we on earth does not yet understand.
See what I mean - this stuff is just too big for us.
But I know this, if you can think of the most unpleasant thing that can happen to a person here on earth, that will likely not compare in any way to hell.
 
In contrast with heaven, just the concept of the joy we will experience doesn't lessen, which seems impossible since we know that, even with emotions, what goes up must come down.

Or with time -- I've heard people say "I'm afraid of going to heaven because after so much time, I'm afraid I'll get bored there." Eternity in heaven won't even be comparable to what we understand eternity to be which is a constant motion of time that never ends...instead, time won't even go forward or backward -- we will be in a realm of timelessness since we will be in the presence of God.

When considering heaven and hell, we can only go so far as we understand earthly concepts. We can't take human experiences and apply them entirely to what will happen in each place -- we can only use them to illustrate. Some illustrations are pretty stupid of course. Once you get to the idea of heaven being a place of your own enjoyment and not a place of eternal worship of God, then you've missed the mark.

"But I don't want to sing 'How Great is Our God' forever."

Nice try :p
 
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Yes, you are right. We just do not know.
We cannot even fully grasp eternity as it's something out of scope for us entirely - I mean who here has fully grasped eternity in any way? All we are and does revolves around time of some sort.
I think also of the description in Revelation about the road, which is pure gold, but yet it's not described in any way to it's golden lustre, but indeed to transparency. Now how would you understand that - how does gold become transparent, and like what does that even look like. We just cannot.
And that is amazing - because God is so much more than that.
 
Major said:
That is true but I know that you have heard the legal term of ....."Guilty by association".

Think of all the Bible verses that contradict your thinking KingJ.

John 3:16 for one.......
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

Verse 18.......
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

We go to heaven by association with the Lord Jesus and since that is Biblically true the opposite would be just as true or God would be a respecter of persons.

Rev. 20:10:
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever ".
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I am not disputing that we will go to hell. Just that we can't claim hell was not prepared for us because of Matt 25:42. My argument is it was. Just like heaven is prepared for some of us.
 
Major said:
I agree. IMO hell will be much, much worse than what our minds can conceive of today.
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I have narrowed my gripe with hell being a terrible place to one line / point. Can you consider it and give me your $1 million dollar ;) thoughts please.

How do you see a ferocious hell as evidence of God loving His enemy?

Just some thoughts to accompany that line:
1. How do we love our enemy except to isolate them and then proceed to look after them as much as is possible (Geneva convention)?
2. If God does not love His enemy but tells us to love ours, He is a hypocrite. God is not a hypocrite.
3. If the unsaved can see it fit to treat those that killed and tortured many with the Geneva convention, how much more us, how much more God? God who has heights and depths of love that we cannot grasp. Are we to think of God's treatment of His enemy as on par / worse then the Russians of WW2?
4. Why do we assume we cannot grasp a fitting punishment for the wicked, when we can use our brain to escape God's judgment 1 Cor 11:31?
5. Who here would punish the worst human for longer then a day in an excruciating fire? The worst punishment prophets enforced OT was being burnt at the stake. Now all deserve this?
6. How would we live with ourselves in heaven knowing those in hell are being ''tortured''? Shouldn't a Christian desire taking them water?
7. Does eternal torture VS eternal bliss / God's absolute hate vs His absolute love sound like a fitting contrast to those that ''''just''''' make into hell VS those that ''''just'''' make it into heaven? 1 Pet 4:18.
 
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God's promise is to do away with sin, death and the wicked forever, one day. His enemies will be vanquished physically from His Creation, and Jesus Christ and His people (the redeemed) will rule the universe as originally planned.
 
KingJ said:
I have narrowed my gripe with hell being a terrible place to one line / point. Can you consider it and give me your $1 million dollar ;) thoughts please.

How do you see a ferocious hell as evidence of God loving His enemy?

Just some thoughts to accompany that line:
1. How do we love our enemy except to isolate them and then proceed to look after them as much as is possible (Geneva convention)?
2. If God does not love His enemy but tells us to love ours, He is a hypocrite. God is not a hypocrite.
3. If the unsaved can see it fit to treat those that killed and tortured many with the Geneva convention, how much more us, how much more God? God who has heights and depths of love that we cannot grasp. Are we to think of God's treatment of His enemy as on par / worse then the Russians of WW2?
4. Why do we assume we cannot grasp a fitting punishment for the wicked, when we can use our brain to escape God's judgment 1 Cor 11:31?
5. Who here would punish the worst human for longer then a day in an excruciating fire? The worst punishment prophets enforced OT was being burnt at the stake. Now all deserve this?
6. How would we live with ourselves in heaven knowing those in hell are being ''tortured''? Shouldn't a Christian desire taking them water?
7. Does eternal torture VS eternal bliss / God's absolute hate vs His absolute love sound like a fitting contrast to those that ''''just''''' make into hell VS those that ''''just'''' make it into heaven? 1 Pet 4:18.
Click to expand...

Hello King,
When speaking of enemies such as love your enemies it is concerning people.
Not evil spirits or the devil etc.
There is a huge difference
 
KingJ said:
I have narrowed my gripe with hell being a terrible place to one line / point. Can you consider it and give me your $1 million dollar ;) thoughts please.

How do you see a ferocious hell as evidence of God loving His enemy?

Just some thoughts to accompany that line:
1. How do we love our enemy except to isolate them and then proceed to look after them as much as is possible (Geneva convention)?
2. If God does not love His enemy but tells us to love ours, He is a hypocrite. God is not a hypocrite.
3. If the unsaved can see it fit to treat those that killed and tortured many with the Geneva convention, how much more us, how much more God? God who has heights and depths of love that we cannot grasp. Are we to think of God's treatment of His enemy as on par / worse then the Russians of WW2?
4. Why do we assume we cannot grasp a fitting punishment for the wicked, when we can use our brain to escape God's judgment 1 Cor 11:31?
5. Who here would punish the worst human for longer then a day in an excruciating fire? The worst punishment prophets enforced OT was being burnt at the stake. Now all deserve this?
6. How would we live with ourselves in heaven knowing those in hell are being ''tortured''? Shouldn't a Christian desire taking them water?
7. Does eternal torture VS eternal bliss / God's absolute hate vs His absolute love sound like a fitting contrast to those that ''''just''''' make into hell VS those that ''''just'''' make it into heaven? 1 Pet 4:18.
Click to expand...

7.How does one just make it into hell ? You are either hell bound or you are not. There is no slim chance.
6..Heaven is nothing like we can grasp and I believe once God seals it up, non of us will even remember hell ever existed.
5... Thoes are not GOD....God placed His plan of salvation into being....He did this out of Love.
The rest is up to us to choose. We accept His love or we reject His Love. Eternity is our choice.
 
ATP said:
God doesn't teach immortality for nonbelievers.
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Spirits are immortal. The dead outside of Christ will be raised to stand before God---in bodies that won't disintegrate or die in His glorious presence. They will be cast bodily into the Lake of Fire, and their spirits will anguish forever.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Hello King,
When speaking of enemies such as love your enemies it is concerning people.
Not evil spirits or the devil etc.
There is a huge difference
Click to expand...
No, it is concerning a heart condition. Hatred cannot exist with love. There is no darkness in God at all 1 John 1:5, God wants the same for us. God wanted those being impaled by Nero to love him yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Do you have a verse that says we must hate the devil and / or the wicked? Jesus did not refer to the devil as our chief enemy? Jesus literally said only enemies that are people? Must the angels in heaven love the fallen angels? Must they also only love evil people?

If Hatred from God was complete / full measure, He would not tolerate wickedness in His universe at all. Making a strong case for annihilation. God keeping His enemy alive for eternity can only point to Him loving them. If His intentions are to keep them alive solely for torture...how do we not serve a God worse then Nero?
 
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Fish Catcher Jim said:
7.How does one just make it into hell ? You are either hell bound or you are not. There is no slim chance.
6..Heaven is nothing like we can grasp and I believe once God seals it up, non of us will even remember hell ever existed.
5... Thoes are not GOD....God placed His plan of salvation into being....He did this out of Love.
The rest is up to us to choose. We accept His love or we reject His Love. Eternity is our choice.
Click to expand...
7. So we must not be nervous of missing the rapture? We can boldly say we have made it? We must ignore 1 Cor 10:12? We cannot read 1 Pet 4:8 as is?

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.

6. Why will we not remember? Will God brainwash us? You will so easily forget your loved ones that don't make it?
5. OT Prophets were not inspired by God?
 
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