Please Explain?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by rev3lations, Jul 8, 2013.


Is hell real or metaphorical

  1. Hell is real

    7 vote(s)
  2. Hell is metaphorical

    1 vote(s)
  3. I don't know?

    0 vote(s)
  1. You know that verse in revelation that says that death and hades will be thrown into the lake of fire with satan and his demons (aka angels)

    Ok so heres the verse

    Revelation 20:14
    Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

    Can someone explain to me why death and hades are going to hell and how does death and hades die a second time when they are death.
  2. The word hell in this instance is 'hades' in the Greek. In this instance, hades refers to the intermediate prison where souls are currently awaiting the day of judgment. The lake of fire is the final prison after judgment has been passed. It is referred to in other parts of the NT in the Greek as 'gehenna'. Throughout scripture 'death' carries the idea of separation. Our physical death is the separation of our soul from the body. The second death refers to eternal separation from God. Hence, it is the second 'separation' after one has experienced physical death. So, when death and hell are cast into the lake of fire, these things are eternally separated from the physical presence of Christ.

    A book that I would recommend to explain things relating to the afterlife is The Spirit World by Clarence Larkin.

    I hope this will be of some help to you.
    Major likes this.
  3. The word "hell" is translated from the Greek 23 times in the NT, and the vast majority (20, I reckon) are not, as Mr. Darby claims, from the Greek "Hades", but rather from a Hebrew secular place-name:

    Of Hebrew origin and ; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, famously used as the city's rubbish dump. It smoldered 24/7 and what was thrown in there never came out.

    The term "Hades" simply means "unseen", and any Greek mythological mixtures with Christian facts, I find suspect and unsupportable....unless you hang on tradition.
  4. Yes that was helpfull, very.
  5. That way very helpfull too, yes very :)
    Rusty likes this.
  6. I believe Rusty misread my statement. I actually said,

    "The word hell in this instance is 'hades' in the Greek."

    'In this instance' refers specifically to Revelation 20:14, not to the 'vast majority' of instances.

    Throughout ancient Greek literature, 'hades' does not always simply refer to an 'unseen place', but is regularly used to refer to the realm of departed spirits where wicked people are punished. A word's definition is fixed by it's common usage in a language.
    Major likes this.
  7. I am placing these portions of scripture to show how Jesus illustrated the unpleasantness of 'Hell'/ the afterlife separated from God.

    Luke 16
    19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
    20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
    21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
    23 And in hell*** he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
    28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

    Mark 9:
    38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
    39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
    40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
    41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
    42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
    43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell****, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
    48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
    50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

    Either way you translate it-it doesn't sound like a pleasant place.

    Someone more educated than I can verify this: but I have heard anything mentioned 3 times in succession is meant to illustrate extreme importance in the teaching.
    Major likes this.
  8. No Mr. Darby...You misread me...The bold point is my meaning and your ONE definition does not fit all explanations.

    I find it fair to give all examples, and not focus only one on.

    Addendum>I found in actuality 10 times it is translated "hades" and 13 times it is NOT. So it is still the majority of times the Hebrew-Greek place name of the city's garbage dump.
  9. Mike: Your Mark 9 verse, Jesus uses the word Gehenna, the always burning garbage dump of Jerusalem.....Where do worms eat humans? In graves dumps and land fills if you were cast there. "...where the worm never dies"....Yep...always have been grubs, worms, maggots in connection with dead bodies....And one of man's greatest revolutions is the degradation of the dead.

    I've made a study on ancient civilizations and their attempts at preserving dead bodies: even the Jews had elaborate attempts of minimizing the bodies decomposition. Recall the spices and wraps wound around Jesus?

    Are people "worms"? Does God call humans maggots?
  10. Yes-I purposely used verses with 'Hell' in the English from two different roots. I am not sure I understand your question? The point I was making was; from either 'hades' or 'gehenna', Christ's description of the afterlife without God is unpleasant-relating to we humans in a way we can start to comprehend it. Not sure what you are implying with: "Are people "worms"? Does God call humans maggots?"
  11. bolded the verses references to "worms"[grubs or maggots, same meaning]....not dying.
    What do you think this means?

    Are there eternal maggots in hell? I've heard many say the term "worm" is meant to imply the human souls.

    What is your reason for bolding the "worm" references?
  12. I think everyone wishes it was metaphorical :). I am curious, what scriptures would cause someone to assume it is metaphorical? Anyone here believe that?
    Major likes this.
  13. Not me.
  14. KingJ...........people who reject the Word of God will always come up with a Scripture that they will try and make fit into their way of thinking. IT is commonly referred to as "Cafeteria Christianity".

    Scriptures are clear and easy to understand for those who are enlightened by the Holy Spirit of God.

    The fact is.....Jesus taught more on hell (Sheol/Hades) than he did on heaven.

    Luke 16 clearly gives a picture of Sheol/Hades from Jesus Himself. THr only way to make hell an allagory is to make Luke 16 a parable which of course is why I have been saying that parables are real stories told by Jesus so that we will be able to comprehend the teaching of the Lord.
    KingJ and Mr. Darby say Amen and like this.
  15. Simply showing Christ's emphasis in the way He described it. I wasn't trying to dig or suggest another doctrinal depth here.

    I am good with accepting the text here as is in the KJV.
    Major likes this.
  16. It's not about "accepting the text", but understanding it.
    Jesus did not bold the "worms": you did...Why?

    Are there maggots in hell?
  17. I agree with you Major, but it isn't the end of the story,'s the "rest of the story"..., Jesus said He spoke in parables so that the Jews wouldn't understand, because if He spoke plainly they would be converted, ...against their will and that would be spiritual rape and Father doesn't do that, if anyone doesn't believer that then do a search on "the voice of God" in the Word before responding, also parables serve the same purpose today, the unconverted can't understand them, whereas the believers do.

    Back to the subject, the nonbelievers will be cast into a real, literal lake of fire in their brand new immortal superhuman bodies like Jesus' and ours, hence they can burn forever and never be consumed (rightful punishment for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit), however the worm part can be metaphorical in the sense that it represents all of the refused chances they had to receive Jesus but rejected Him, it's like we say something is eating away at my mind today, but they will be tormented both physically and mentally, that is, ...they will go insane, ...and believe me, I've been there and that's a torment I can't describe.

    Major likes this.
  18. God gives the damned eternal life...just not with Him? Eternal bodies??? Can you show more than one Scriptural evidence (not theory) of this concept....God give eternal life to the damned?
  19. Yup in immortal bodies, but I can't do all of the work for you, ...I'll let you do the homework, here's a clue to get you started, ...before regeneration our "life" is bios like in biological (flesh and blood) do a word search on eternal "life" it's a different word, ...there, I've given you two clues. LOL


    Major likes this.
  20. Hmmmm You make a point but have no interest in backing it up? That's a first for you, my friend....Must be busier than me, huh?

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