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Placing the fleece before God

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Siloam, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. There is a friend of mine who has several times indicated something on the order of flipping a coin and trusting the Lord to make it heads or tails to let him know what the Lord wished. To me this is great folly, am I am not even sure that my brother actually uses this, or if he simply wishes to make a point about God making His will known.

    Judges 6:36-40 [NASB]
    Then Gideon said to God, " If You will deliver Israel through me, as You have spoken, behold, I will put a fleece of wool on the threshing floor. If there is dew on the fleece only, and it is dry on all the ground, then I will know that You will deliver Israel through me, as You have spoken." And it was so. When he arose early the next morning and squeezed the fleece, he drained the dew from the fleece, a bowl full of water. Then Gideon said to God, " Do not let Your anger burn against me that I may speak once more; please let me make a test once more with the fleece, let it now be dry only on the fleece, and let there be dew on all the ground." God did so that night; for it was dry only on the fleece, and dew was on all the ground.

    This was sort of a scientific experiment, complete with experimental control to assess the will of God.

    How many times do we, in effect, say to God “If you want me to do thus and so, give me a sign”? Or, even “If you want me to do this, you must give me the sign I request”?

    What I am getting at, is how do we know that what we are doing is what God wants? Many will not without cause, say that scripture lets us know God’s will. And so it does. But we all have the same scripture, but we each have different ministries. That is right for my brother in the pew next to me is not necessarily right for me.

    Many of us experience periods where we do not feel the Lord’s leading, but the task before us does not wait until our dry period is over.

    I have learned that remaining faithful to our tasks He has laid before us during these times results in some of the greatest spiritual growth when our perception of His leading is restored.
    Juk likes this.
  2. Amen,

    There is His will for us which is His will for all of us and then there is His plan for each of us or our lives. Both take time with Him to see come to pass in our lives. Many will go their entire life and never come close to knowing what His plan was for their lives and yet feel they did His will and His plan.

    Just because there is a need that you can fill or something that just looks or feels right does NOT make it His plan for your life. His will is simple to find. Simply spend time with Him in His word and a willing to be willing heart and you will find your self living our His will for man. Now then His plan for your life takes more in-depth personal time with Him to unwrap if you will this most awesome and wonderful plan He has for you.

    In this plan you will find your true Happy Place for in His plan are all your provisions you will need and all the grace and peace and mercy and so forth. In His plan there are even the smallest of details such as where you should truly be working or going to church and so forth.
    Most people make these choices on their own.

    As the OP said it some times seems hard to know His will in a situation when it seems to be a dry season - However if we are walking in His will and doing His will which is simply living as he has designed us to in and by His written word we can find our selves making proper choices BUT if we miss it then GRACE simply takes over and God will make it work for it is not perfection that He is looking for but simple obedience or WILL YOU SIMPLY OBEY ME AND MY WORD NO MATTER WHAT ?

    Say God calls you to do a task and you are willing and happy to be obedient but make a mess of it..........Grace is there and God will fix it even if He has to call some one else to do it all over again BUT you get the credit as if you did it perfectly, why ? Simply put Obedient Heart...You went and did what He asked. It is our Heart and motives that speak loudly unto God. We can pull the wool over our brothers and sisters eyes but To GOD - well there is nothing hidden from Him.

    Brother Siloam I know I went a little bit in another direction from the fleece type praying but I just felt as I needed to say this. Maybe for me or maybe for another maybe both. ;)
    God Bless You
    Cturtle and Siloam say Amen and like this.
  3. As i read your post....i was pondering this question that you asked. And i thought that i would respond with my two cents.

    You are fully right that we should not be flipping a coin or praying the way that Gideon prayed anymore. Gideon was a timid person and I believe that he was not sure that God was talking to him. So the reason for laying out the fleece was so that God could show him that He was real and really talking to him.

    When Jesus died on the cross, and rose again...the first time that He visited His disciples.....He breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit John 20:22. So from that point on we have access to the Holy Spirit (He comes to live in us when we receive Christ as Lord, as in John 16:5-15) and thus should not be led by "fleece praying or outward signs" anymore, we should be led by the Inward witness of the Holy Spirit.

    Thanks again for the opportunity to respond. Grace and peace be yours in abundance!
    Siloam and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  4. While I agree it's better to be in a place where you're sensitive to God enough to not need a "sign" but remember, Aaron cast lots to see which goat was God's, Lev 16:8, the land was divided by lots, Num 26:55; Joshua 13 on; Acts 13:19, Israel was chosen by lot, Deut 32:9, Jonathan was chosen by lot for his sin, 1 Sam 14, Jonah was discovered by lot, Jonah 1:7, they used lots to take Jesus' garments, Mat 27:35; Psa 22:18, and the apostles cast lots to see who'd replace Judas, Act 1:26... then you have the Urim and the Thummim as instructed by the Lord.

    Why was (is) lot used? It's impartial.

    Proverbs 18:18 (KJV)
    The lot causeth contentions to cease, and parteth between the mighty. ​

    - Definition:
    1. lot
    a. lot - pebbles used for systematically making decisions ​
    2. portion
    a. lot, portion (thing assigned by casting lots)
    b. recompense, retribution ​
    - Origin: from an unused root meaning to be rough (as stone)

    So if the Holy Spirit was in the apostles, why did they still cast lots? To be impartial.

    Impartiality (also called evenhandedness or fair-mindedness) is a principle of justice holding that decisions should be based on objective criteria, rather than on the basis of bias, prejudice, or preferring the benefit to one person over another for improper reasons.

    Don't throw the baby out with the bath water :D
    Juk likes this.
  5. The disciples never cast lots to make a decision after the Pentecost. Since then we have the Holy Spirit. There are times that the HS gives us a sign, but I would be very careful of setting up some kind of test for spiritual sign thus demanding that the Lord speak on your terms and choosing from the alternatives you foreee.
    Cturtle likes this.
  6. They had the Holy Spirit before Pentecost, John 20:22, and yet they still cast lots. I don't know why you chose your last sentence, I'm only quoting the scriptures. If you have a problem with that take it up with God.
  7. This is my understanding (and I am not precluding you anyone knowing more or having a better understanding than I :)) The Holy Spirit is eternal and taught the people of God the things from above since the beginning. Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit to His disciples, but the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was not universal among those that had received Christ until Pentecost. At Pentecost the relationship between the common believer and the Holy Spirit changed because the Spirit now indwells every believer (even though some still war against Him in the flesh). The Holy Spirit can lead us directly, without tests, by directly communicating to us as we allow Him.

    Do you know of anything of this nature (setting up a test and requiring the Spirit to choose alternatives the believers themselves set up) after the indwelling of the Spirit?
    Cturtle likes this.
  8. I don't really know anyone who does this who is christian..sorry.
    Plenty of people do who aren't because they are indecisive. I think James warns that those who are double-minded won't receive anything from the Lord.
  9. When they cast lots to choose another apostle after Judas' betrayal it fell on Matthias, but obviously God thought otherwise, choosing Paul.

    Also think Jesus said the jews seek after a sign but no sign will be given except for the sign of Jonas (meaning his death, burial and resurrection). Those that practise divination usually ask for signs as well, from their god(s).

    Also we are not to be chasing after signs and wonders, as Satan can deceive using those as well.

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