Example would be a friend of mine, he hates God. He follows a bunch of pagan deities and will not listen to anything that has to do with the One true God. I'm still his friend, but I cannot talk to him about God, he won't hear it at all. If I try and talk with him about Jesus and the Gospel, he shuts down and usually walks away. No reason to beat my head on that particular wall, it's not moving. I pray for him and ask God to open his eyes to His Truths, but that's all I can do.
Pearls before Swine
- Thread starter JohnC
- Start date
Example would be a friend of mine, he hates God. He follows a bunch of pagan deities and will not listen to anything that has to do with the One true God. I'm still his friend, but I cannot talk to him about God, he won't hear it at all. If I try and talk with him about Jesus and the Gospel, he shuts down and usually walks away. No reason to beat my head on that particular wall, it's not moving. I pray for him and ask God to open his eyes to His Truths, but that's all I can do.
I pray for Households now and include in that all that these individuals love. I am reminded that God loved Abraham and saved Lot's "household" as a result. I have been thinking for awhile now that we live in a time where it has gotten increasingly hard to show and tell folks the Truth. In ages past, the culture, generally, believed in God. Nowadays, the deception seems very thick - but maybe it has always been that way. Idk - but I pray that all hearts, ears, eyes, souls be made open to the love and divine will of God and that they remain open. I add @Lanolin and @Preachers Wife to those prayers.
Lanolin - family is the hardest because we want them most of all to understand and accept Christ. Pray about it and re-arrange your strategy. You were meant to show them the way.
Lanolin - family is the hardest because we want them most of all to understand and accept Christ. Pray about it and re-arrange your strategy. You were meant to show them the way.
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Pagans are a real hard group to reach. Most have been involved with Christianity at one point and hurt by it. I fell into the Pagan lifestyle for 10 years and Jesus called me home. Won't ever turn away again
When you have proclaimed the gospel and they have refused it - your part is done....
Think of Jesus exhortation to his disciples when he sent them out.... If someone refuses you - wipe the dust off of your feet as a witness against them....
Think of God's exhortation to the Prophets... When you tell them and they refuse - their blood is on their own hands...
It's one thing if we refuse to proclaim the gospel or to proclaim God's truth because we decide someone is an enemy or is unworthy... It's another matter altogether when we do proclaim and they refuse.
Thanks
Think of Jesus exhortation to his disciples when he sent them out.... If someone refuses you - wipe the dust off of your feet as a witness against them....
Think of God's exhortation to the Prophets... When you tell them and they refuse - their blood is on their own hands...
It's one thing if we refuse to proclaim the gospel or to proclaim God's truth because we decide someone is an enemy or is unworthy... It's another matter altogether when we do proclaim and they refuse.
Thanks
Wiping dust off feet is so very hard when you live with your family.
I know that scripture was meaning if you go into another city, wasnt talking about family members.
Although.. The disciples left their families behind to follow Jesus so am bit confused about this. Its only really mum that refuses..with my bros as they live in another house I wiped the dust off my feet already.
I know that scripture was meaning if you go into another city, wasnt talking about family members.
Although.. The disciples left their families behind to follow Jesus so am bit confused about this. Its only really mum that refuses..with my bros as they live in another house I wiped the dust off my feet already.
Matt 7:1-6 - Judging Others
I have a question. Why is the title of Matt 7:1-6 called 'Judging Others'. What does verse 6 have to do with judging. - ATP
1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
I have a question. Why is the title of Matt 7:1-6 called 'Judging Others'. What does verse 6 have to do with judging. - ATP
1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Is it meaning if we are judging, we are giving out pearls???
I mean, when we give advice, aren't we using our judgement? When someone asks for our opinion, is that asking for someone's judgement? If we seek approval from God, are we asking Him to judge us?
Eg when those singers sing before the judges on those idol shows, and the judges are judging them on their performance, are they giving out pearls of wisdom? If the singers don't like what the judges dish out, are they being pigs? Because the judges have the authority or the right to judge? Should we just accept with grace others assessment of us?
Is it better for a christian to judge, according to God's word, than a non-believer who has no insight at all?
Do we need to judge at times and be honest..or is it cruel to judge? What if someone ASKS us? The annoying thing is when someone asks and then they don't like what we say. But they asked. As christians we can't lie and just tell people what they want to hear.
I mean, when we give advice, aren't we using our judgement? When someone asks for our opinion, is that asking for someone's judgement? If we seek approval from God, are we asking Him to judge us?
Eg when those singers sing before the judges on those idol shows, and the judges are judging them on their performance, are they giving out pearls of wisdom? If the singers don't like what the judges dish out, are they being pigs? Because the judges have the authority or the right to judge? Should we just accept with grace others assessment of us?
Is it better for a christian to judge, according to God's word, than a non-believer who has no insight at all?
Do we need to judge at times and be honest..or is it cruel to judge? What if someone ASKS us? The annoying thing is when someone asks and then they don't like what we say. But they asked. As christians we can't lie and just tell people what they want to hear.
The scriptures show wisdom and light in many different ways one day it may mean something totally different then the next.. As you draw closer to him he abides with in.. but keep your self from sin. As he said in his word obey.. obey and he will reveal him self to us and the mystery of his word .
As far as casting your pears before the swine. Swines are the unclean which we are before we come to God .. pearls however are a bacteria or sand that is been encased by a protectant naturally made from the oyster to protect its self from irritation or hurt which is beautiful symbol our Lord as he shields us through his word given to us to protect us from the hurt of the world, sometimes we may have a revelation of God a word directly to us not for anyone else trying to defend what God has done for us we share it with someone maybe trying to win them over and often this person shows no interest or life change by Gods word they just throw it aside or they take it and shove it back in your face at another time because they wont receive what God has for them.
As far as casting your pears before the swine. Swines are the unclean which we are before we come to God .. pearls however are a bacteria or sand that is been encased by a protectant naturally made from the oyster to protect its self from irritation or hurt which is beautiful symbol our Lord as he shields us through his word given to us to protect us from the hurt of the world, sometimes we may have a revelation of God a word directly to us not for anyone else trying to defend what God has done for us we share it with someone maybe trying to win them over and often this person shows no interest or life change by Gods word they just throw it aside or they take it and shove it back in your face at another time because they wont receive what God has for them.
Maybe its talking about heaven.
The kingdom of heaven is likened to a pearl of great price. The pigs dont want heaven. They are happy in the mire. The dogs return back to their own vomit.
Sacred...is the Lord Jesus sacred or is he meaning Heaven, where He is?
Your pearls..notice plural. Meaning more than one? I immediately think pearls of wisdom. Pearly gates. Being adorned with pearls. Pearls are oysters tears becoming hard. I think of the eye verse, why eye? When we talk about God, is it in terms of seeing who He really is? Or, is it, making someone cry? If we tell them the truth about Jesus, how can they not cry out to Him after everything Hes done on the cross? Most proud people will not cry and fall on their knees to worship the Lord.
The kingdom of heaven is likened to a pearl of great price. The pigs dont want heaven. They are happy in the mire. The dogs return back to their own vomit.
Sacred...is the Lord Jesus sacred or is he meaning Heaven, where He is?
Your pearls..notice plural. Meaning more than one? I immediately think pearls of wisdom. Pearly gates. Being adorned with pearls. Pearls are oysters tears becoming hard. I think of the eye verse, why eye? When we talk about God, is it in terms of seeing who He really is? Or, is it, making someone cry? If we tell them the truth about Jesus, how can they not cry out to Him after everything Hes done on the cross? Most proud people will not cry and fall on their knees to worship the Lord.
Is it possible that this passage
"Matthew 7:6 - Do not give what is holy to the dogs, nor throw your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet, then turn again and rend you."
is in context to the previous paragraph "Matthew 7:1 through 7:5?
Matthew 7:1 through 7:5 -
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
The first five verses are about "judgement" and how its a dangerous game to judge lest you be judged yourself. Thus I content that it is a statement about caution regarding judgment to the non-aggressive sinner.
The swine and dogs are government and the Sanhedrin who abandoned Mosaic law and Natural Law; these two who also engaged in a legacy of violence, theft and power. Christ many times ethically stood up in public against them. Christ warned the Jews that if they are going to give "the power of arbitrary judgment to government and men," then they will viciously destroy and trample the church and the individual underfoot. The individual Christan is the pearl, and we are sent out as lambs among wolves.
Despotic power will hate us because they hate Christ, and Christ accuses the despotic nature of government and all compulsory punitive religious systems to be immoral. It is our ethical responsibility at great risk to denounce despotism publicly if we believe we are to walk as Christ walked.
Also Christ referred to the heathen as dogs.
Mark 7:27 - But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs
Thus if we the church result to arbitrary punitive judgment to harm the non-aggressive sinner, we will bring down upon our own head the compulsory state who will also arbitrarily consume the church to its end. This happens because: in order to "judge the non-aggressive sinner" we must first "empower the beasts that arbitrarily devour."
Thus again if a sinner does not violate another person or their property, then we should have no arbitrary laws to engage them with punitive judgment. But instead if we do support arbitrary laws of punitive judgment, then the compulsory state will eviscerate our liberty to live Godly and will destroy us in the natural.
Example: We must condemn any law regarding ambiguous immorality that would punish the sinner but are in right-standing to virtuously support any law that reacts to a violent act to person or property. Natural Law coming from scripture provides this ethical substrate in the form of Natural Rights.
Jesus intervened with organized violence in behalf of the adulterous woman, but did not stop organized violence from killing the thief on the cross who received salvation. Thus as Christians we should never support a law that imprisons the drinker, the smoker, those who engage in sexual sin, those who gamble, the homosexual, or the adulterer "if" none of these people in their actions do not trespass against life, liberty or property. If we support arbitrary laws, we support our own evisceration of liberty delegated to us by Christ.
"Matthew 7:6 - Do not give what is holy to the dogs, nor throw your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet, then turn again and rend you."
is in context to the previous paragraph "Matthew 7:1 through 7:5?
Matthew 7:1 through 7:5 -
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
The first five verses are about "judgement" and how its a dangerous game to judge lest you be judged yourself. Thus I content that it is a statement about caution regarding judgment to the non-aggressive sinner.
The swine and dogs are government and the Sanhedrin who abandoned Mosaic law and Natural Law; these two who also engaged in a legacy of violence, theft and power. Christ many times ethically stood up in public against them. Christ warned the Jews that if they are going to give "the power of arbitrary judgment to government and men," then they will viciously destroy and trample the church and the individual underfoot. The individual Christan is the pearl, and we are sent out as lambs among wolves.
Despotic power will hate us because they hate Christ, and Christ accuses the despotic nature of government and all compulsory punitive religious systems to be immoral. It is our ethical responsibility at great risk to denounce despotism publicly if we believe we are to walk as Christ walked.
Also Christ referred to the heathen as dogs.
Mark 7:27 - But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs
Thus if we the church result to arbitrary punitive judgment to harm the non-aggressive sinner, we will bring down upon our own head the compulsory state who will also arbitrarily consume the church to its end. This happens because: in order to "judge the non-aggressive sinner" we must first "empower the beasts that arbitrarily devour."
Thus again if a sinner does not violate another person or their property, then we should have no arbitrary laws to engage them with punitive judgment. But instead if we do support arbitrary laws of punitive judgment, then the compulsory state will eviscerate our liberty to live Godly and will destroy us in the natural.
Example: We must condemn any law regarding ambiguous immorality that would punish the sinner but are in right-standing to virtuously support any law that reacts to a violent act to person or property. Natural Law coming from scripture provides this ethical substrate in the form of Natural Rights.
Jesus intervened with organized violence in behalf of the adulterous woman, but did not stop organized violence from killing the thief on the cross who received salvation. Thus as Christians we should never support a law that imprisons the drinker, the smoker, those who engage in sexual sin, those who gamble, the homosexual, or the adulterer "if" none of these people in their actions do not trespass against life, liberty or property. If we support arbitrary laws, we support our own evisceration of liberty delegated to us by Christ.
With all due respect - I think you are over-allegorizing the saying to back into your assumed conclusion.
If you go through the proverbs - there's a common technique used all over the place... It's the "Hebraism"... It's a form of making a point of emphasis by comparing two things.... (A classic one is that a fool returns to his folly like a dog returns to his own vomit)... That's what Jesus was doing here....
Throwing Holy food to the Dogs to eat would show a blatant disregard and hatred for God and His ways set forth in The Law.... In likewise manner - making showy, false-pious grandstands such as an Orthodox Jew throwing his (Unclean) pearls before (Likewise unclean) Swine ALSO illustrates a blatant disregard and hatred for God and his ways....
We see this sort of thing today... I can name off a dozen examples I have seen in churches... For Example... When someone joins a particular denomination - the Denomination makes a big point of the new member Renouncing Alcohol! There are several Christian Colleges that demand similar vows... That's all fine and good if you are an alcoholic... but if you are NOT tempted by alcohol - it's a false-pious act that's worth NOTHING before God... I had friends who were pressured to BURN their entire (Sizeable) secular music collection.... I had other friends who were pressured to give up all their non-christian friends... Etc...
These sort of false-pious acts we do for show are worthless before God and in fact - show a disregard and disrespect for God and His ways...
If you go through the proverbs - there's a common technique used all over the place... It's the "Hebraism"... It's a form of making a point of emphasis by comparing two things.... (A classic one is that a fool returns to his folly like a dog returns to his own vomit)... That's what Jesus was doing here....
Throwing Holy food to the Dogs to eat would show a blatant disregard and hatred for God and His ways set forth in The Law.... In likewise manner - making showy, false-pious grandstands such as an Orthodox Jew throwing his (Unclean) pearls before (Likewise unclean) Swine ALSO illustrates a blatant disregard and hatred for God and his ways....
We see this sort of thing today... I can name off a dozen examples I have seen in churches... For Example... When someone joins a particular denomination - the Denomination makes a big point of the new member Renouncing Alcohol! There are several Christian Colleges that demand similar vows... That's all fine and good if you are an alcoholic... but if you are NOT tempted by alcohol - it's a false-pious act that's worth NOTHING before God... I had friends who were pressured to BURN their entire (Sizeable) secular music collection.... I had other friends who were pressured to give up all their non-christian friends... Etc...
These sort of false-pious acts we do for show are worthless before God and in fact - show a disregard and disrespect for God and His ways...
God Bless you JohnC and thank you for the kind respect
I agree with this statement and it resonates with me completely
But here I am in disagreement. I understand your premise and would find it compatible if the verse was void of context; yet the text does have a context, and the context is to avoid judging others with aggression. It’s simply a warning for us to not judge punitively. Yet I respect your liberty to disagree my friend.
I am highly unqualified to judge the actions of other churches or the people in them regarding their hermeneutical positions to reject or accept the various acts you mention; for I do not know them or their methods. However as an abstract, I can agree that a spirit of judgment and accusation can drive many people away in offense, and would also contend that love is better than accusations.
Casting your "pearls" before swine would fall under the same category as not praying for those who knowing continue in sin.
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
The "sin" that leads to death is "unbelief" as it is never forgiven. Casting God's Wisdom (pearls) before these people will not do any good.
Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
Darkness has always hated the light to the point they would rather kill you then listen to its truth as it a sword that pierces their hearts.
Guidance by the Holy Spirit is essential to proclaiming the Gospel.
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
The "sin" that leads to death is "unbelief" as it is never forgiven. Casting God's Wisdom (pearls) before these people will not do any good.
Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
Darkness has always hated the light to the point they would rather kill you then listen to its truth as it a sword that pierces their hearts.
Guidance by the Holy Spirit is essential to proclaiming the Gospel.
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Let's go back to the context of the entire thing.... Matt 5-7 is "The Sermon on the Mount" - a rather famous episode where Jesus puts on his "Messiah" hat and interprets sections of the law for the benefit of those present.... The "Context" is therefore a Rabbi teaching those who have more than a passing familiarity with The Law of Moses as well as the Oral Tradition that had been accumulated until that day...
The Sermon covers a giant slew of wide ranging topics - conduct before men, conduct before God, ethics, divorce, as well as a lot of picky topics that are bandied about in the Talmudic traditions...
So, then... Let's look at Matt 7 - the final paragraphs of this Sermon...
7:1-5 A section of wisdom - expressing that you ought to be careful with how you think about and deal with others... because you may have it given right back to you in the same manner as you dish it out...
7:6 - Wisdom pertaining to making false pious grandstands..
7:7-11 - Wisdom pertaining to petitioning God
Figuring out the context of Matt 7:6 - it makes a whole lot more sense logically to group 7:6 with 7:7-11 on petitioning God..
AKA - if you WANT to petition God - making false pious grandstands is NOT the way to do it... Those false pious grandstands show as much respect and admiration for God as throwing your portion of a holy sacrifice to unclean Dogs instead of eating it yourself as proscribed in Leviticus... RATHER... If you truly want to Petition God - simply ASK GOD... 7:8 - He who asks receives, He who seeks finds... - which echo's right back to Matt 6:33 - "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God..." a paragraph earlier
In my opinion - only then does it make sense to group 7:6-11 with 7:1-5 - into the greater context of bringing your petition before God. Now, if you want to tie the whole thing together....
If you want to petition God -
1. Don't try to "Butter up" God by casting down those whom you feel are doing wrong lest God return the favor (7:1-2)
2. Don't try to "Butter up" God by foolishly trying to "Help" others in matters that you are neither prepared nor equipped - and end up injuring them worse, rather focus on working out your own problems for yourself (7:3-5)
3. Don't try to "Butter up" God by making false pious grandstands (7:6)
Simply ask God and rest on HIS character and HIS faithfulness.... (7:7-11)
So, then 7:1-11 then ties back into the context of 6:25-34 - worrying about your needs - which is why you might want to petition God....
Thus it's a logical progression...
You need something out of God....
You won't get it by showing the flag and being the self-appointed God-Police...
You won't get it by being the self-appointed people-fixer (and injuring people in the process)
You won't get it by making big, showy acts...
You get it by asking God like a son asks his father for food...
Thanks
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We may have to agree to disagree my friend.
I understand your point, yet I must contend that all verses in Matt. 1-6 have a very precise and clear context, and that is “lawful punitive judgment.”
Your quote - “The "Context" is therefore a Rabbi teaching those who have more than a passing familiarity with The Law of Moses as well as the Oral Tradition that had been accumulated until that day...”
Thus to your own point, the “law” was indeed in focus, yet the “lawful context” is in relationship to “punitive judgment.” Organized penalty by force materializes by “lawful punitive judgment.”
Line by line – Matt. 7:1 - 6
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Context is lawful punitive judgment - Do not judge “with the law” or you will be judged by the law yourself - “punitively” In sermon on the plain, “lawful punitive condemnation is also used by Christ”
2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Context is lawful punitive judgment - If the church leverage’s lawful punitive judgment then that same lawful punitive judgment will be rendered back to the church, (those under the compulsory contract of the law – church – or society). Thus if society or the church leverage lawful punitive judgment to be cast upon the ambiguous sinner, then that same arbitrary law will in time be used against them as well.
For example: if we today leverage arbitrary law to punitively punish an adulterous then “arbitrary power” will then be given to despotic forces to then in-turn launch arbitrary punitive penalty against the church and innocent society. This is happening in our society today.
3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Context is lawful punitive judgment - If we use “arbitrary law” to punish the sinner, then we fail to see our own sin. Thus we should as the church not use the law to punish others in their ambiguous sin, but should focus on our own sin. Only are sins of violence worthy of the law. Thus Christ defended the adulteress from arbitrary law, but did not defend the thief on the cross and let him die, though he was saved by Christ to go to paradise.
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Context is lawful punitive judgment - Again we are to tend to our own problems and not use arbitrary punitive law against the ambiguous sinner.
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Context is lawful punitive judgment - A clear declarative mandate to focus on our own sin and never use arbitrary law to force others who are in ambiguous sin to be righteous using judgmental force.
6. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Context is lawful punitive judgment - Its clear to me that judgment is still the narrative and clear-context; we should not give “the power of judgment to dogs and pigs” for the compulsory State will eviscerate the church and its liberty to serve God after the State has been given the power to arbitrarily judge.
Are you then declaring that WE as Christians have full Responsibility and Authority over the laws enacted, enforcement, and punishment meted out by the Civil Authorities in The World?
Step back and think this through to it's logical conclusion...
For example - since WE CHRISTIANS decided Abortion is Great for everybody - thus WE are to blame for the children who have died....
But wait a second... That's FALSE TESTIMONY!... that's NOT actually what happened... Then as Now - we have fought tooth and nail against it - and continue to LOSE the battle before the Civil Authorities! You are saying that because we fought and Lost - we are somehow personally responsible for the decisions of those who WON?
See... this is exactly the sort of Propaganda that the Soviet Union used against The Church in WWII... Saying that because The Church could not STOP Hitler and the Holocost - that The Church is then RESPONSIBLE for it..... The actual truth is that Hitler killed MORE Christians than Jews because they resisted his efforts from beginning to end.....
Thus... I will argue that since "The Masses" have no actual Authority or Responsibility for Legislation, Passing Binding Judgement, or Arrest/Custody - thus Sermon on the Mount - Given to the Masses - is not to be taken primarily in the context of the responsibility and authority of Civil Authorities DUTY of conducting Punitive Judgement....
Responsibility and Authority are two different things.
“Responsibility” - Yes my friend, we will be “fully” held responsible before God regarding all actions we make “individually.” We have a deontological duty “individually” by scripture to “never” support personal or political actions that are arbitrarily violent. Thus Christ mandated that “WE” as "individual" Christians should “never” use, support, or endorse Civil Authority to lawfully commit acts of organized violence to harm society, the church, or the non-aggressive sinner.
“Authority” – Most likely not my friend, as Christian’s who vote, support and persuade “ethically” regarding Natural Law and Natural Rights are usually outnumbered, and wretched unjust law, edicts, and authoritarian violence will propagate in spite of ethical standings. Yet the Christian will be held “responsible” if they support any organized violence that abandons Natural Law, and Natural Rights from scripture. Also to this scriptural context, we will to eventual maturity reap what we sow in the natural as well.
You quote -“You are saying that because we fought and Lost - we are somehow personally responsible for the decisions of those who WON” - Not at all my friend, for we are “individually accountable” for supporting violence to the unborn. If a Christian will vote, campaign, finance, or support any actions, party, candidate, movement, or government that will slaughter the unborn, then according to scripture that “individual” will be judged by God accordingly for supporting violence; for “all” initiated violence is condemned in scripture. However if the individual in love will ethically reject abortion, then scripture confirms the “individual” will be rewarded.
Yet Christ gives us wisdom to consider, for his challenge to “not judge” or “to judge” is a two-edged sword; for if you judge violent murderer then you support that the “law is just” to react “justly” to murder, yet if you support “unjust law” to punitively judge personal gluttony arbitrarily, then you support unjust power that will harm the church regarding what they will eat. Thus Christ delivers us a profound caveat, that if we judge the ambiguous sinner with punitive penalty, then we set ourselves up to be judged harshly by the same arbitrary powers.
Therefore the “individual Christian” is each accountable for their own actions, yet we are also charged to politically condemn all violence that will trespass against Natural Rights from scripture. Thus abortions is violence, thus we can “justly” support that the law engage it as violence, however gluttony is not violence to another, thus its “unjust” to support unjust laws of arbitrary violence to engage gluttony. Abortion is aggress (initiated violence) which just-law can react, yet gluttony is not violence to another person or property, thus if the law engages gluttony with punitive violence, then the arbitrary law itself becomes the aggress (initiated violence).
Yet Hitler and Stalin are both despotic monsters from sheol that would thrash Natural Rights from scripture to pieces using every kind of compulsion, legal-plunder, and despotism imaginable; for compulsory Communism and compulsory National Socialism are both demonic tools from the abodes of sulfur and brimstone. I simply preach Natural Law from scripture and then proclaim that each individual Christian is individually accountable for their own “individual actions.” Thus I bear no propaganda but the pure truth that emanates from scripture my friend.
If a compulsory despotic government slaughters the innocent, then those “individuals” who made it possible will be standing before the King of Kings in a very difficult predicament; for there are warnings in scripture from Christ to those who would cause the innocent any harm. Yet each individual is accountable for supporting, or engaging violence and it’s a sure warning from Christ that we avoid supporting any lawful punitive judgment which engineers “aggress.”
JohnC, please know that I deeply respect you as my brother in Christ and also respect your liberty to disagree my friend.
Please know that my every rebuttal in given in a spirit of love and respect.