Pastor goes from earth to heaven to earth!

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Abdicate said:
@Major question: in warfare, what tool is the most effective? Misinformation. But what if it was impossible to change, then what? Misdirection. How could that be done? Well, that's why we have the secret service, to track down counterfeit money, so it wouldn't destroy the economy (it's exactly what the feds are doing - legally - printing money; but that's another story). This is what the enemy does, he takes some of the most important information from the word of God and subtly changes it just enough to cause doubt, other times he steals the whole subject like meditation. The word of God is filled from genesis to revelation with supernatural events with examples of warfare, yet the vast majority of Christian explain away those examples. Why do you suppose that's so? Misinformation and misdirection. The Son of God Himself said we would do more than He did. If we scaled what He did as 100%, then I have done and experienced 0.0000001% of what He did, but I still believe His words that I would do 105% of what He did. The problem? Three things: me, myself, and I. Still I have prophesied, I have witnessed two healings, I have been given knowledge I cannot claim as coming from anyone but God Himself, but in all these experiences, they do not yet rank at even 1%. But I know and believe He will continue the work He started in me. That includes the supernatural.

What do you think the counterfeiter himself will do to gain the world's obedience?

*[[2Th 2:9]] KJV* Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Do you believe me about my experiences?
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I believe the scriptures, John 14:12, and you claim to be a Christian, so yes, I believe what you say.

How could I convince you otherwise?
 
Abdicate said:
@Major question: in warfare, what tool is the most effective? Misinformation. But what if it was impossible to change, then what? Misdirection. How could that be done? Well, that's why we have the secret service, to track down counterfeit money, so it wouldn't destroy the economy (it's exactly what the feds are doing - legally - printing money; but that's another story). This is what the enemy does, he takes some of the most important information from the word of God and subtly changes it just enough to cause doubt, other times he steals the whole subject like meditation. The word of God is filled from genesis to revelation with supernatural events with examples of warfare, yet the vast majority of Christian explain away those examples. Why do you suppose that's so? Misinformation and misdirection. The Son of God Himself said we would do more than He did. If we scaled what He did as 100%, then I have done and experienced 0.0000001% of what He did, but I still believe His words that I would do 105% of what He did. The problem? Three things: me, myself, and I. Still I have prophesied, I have witnessed two healings, I have been given knowledge I cannot claim as coming from anyone but God Himself, but in all these experiences, they do not yet rank at even 1%. But I know and believe He will continue the work He started in me. That includes the supernatural.

What do you think the counterfeiter himself will do to gain the world's obedience?

*[[2Th 2:9]] KJV* Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Do you believe me about my experiences?
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Yes. Misdirection and confusion is a great weapon.
 
Euphemia said:
If a man walked on water, he would have the faith to believe that a man would have died and been raised up again by God. It would be a non-issue with him.
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Peter said to Jesus..........“Lord, bid me come unto thee on the water” and actually walked on the water, which should have cemented his faith, but he got his eyes off Jesus, and his faith failed. I am not going to criticize Peter because that is the problem with us as well.
 
Cturtle said:
As i fully agree with you, it reminds me also that John 3:13 was prior to Jesus ascending to Heaven for the first time. He was to be the first born from the dead (Colossians 1:18) and in my mind the first one to rise to heaven as well. Besides i also believe that after Jesus defeated death, hell and the grave...all of the saints that were in Abraham's bosom are now in heaven (Matthew 27:52-53) as well as the other believers who have gone on before us. For it says in 2 Corinthians 5:8 to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
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Amen!
 
Major said:
Peter said to Jesus..........“Lord, bid me come unto thee on the water” and actually walked on the water, which should have cemented his faith, but he got his eyes off Jesus, and his faith failed. I am not going to criticize Peter because that is the problem with us as well.
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Peter's faith and confidence in Jesus is something we need to emulate.
 
Major said:
Of course that is true. Heavenly access is all about preparation. Would you agree to that????

If we are in Christ we are prepared. Access mean to we must be perfect to get to heaven because that is where God lives and He is perfect. Therefore to be like Him we must be perfect hence the process of a glorified body.

Do you then think that God will reverse that process so as to allow someone to go and then come back as a human and then repeat it all over again???

You are welcome to believe that if you choose I however do not.
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I know nothing about this man or even what he claims, but I have heard of others and I believe you are confused... They died and returned to their old bodies just like Lazareth ... They are accounting what happened to them while dead...to be absent from the body is to be in the presence with the Lord. I don't understand the issue with that. I'm not sure what it is you have a problem with.
 
Abdicate said:
I know nothing about this man or even what he claims, but I have heard of others and I believe you are confused... They died and returned to their old bodies just like Lazareth ... They are accounting what happened to them while dead...to be absent from the body is to be in the presence with the Lord. I don't understand the issue with that. I'm not sure what it is you have a problem with.
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I guess the question is......did they really die?

No problem at all Abdicate. Doctrinally speaking, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

So we both agree that the spirit goes to Heaven and the body to the ground. My question I guess stems from the idea that God would allow a reverse of that action. That's all.
 
Abdicate said:
And then what does one do with faith, act on it, with it, to affect the physical.
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Of course we act. I think that you will agree that acting on faith does not make it more believable.


One of the great Christian scholars ever was A.W. Tozer and he said ...........
"I do not recall another period when "faith" was as popular as it is today. If only we believe hard enough we'll make it somehow. So goes the popular chant. What you believe is not important. Only believe... What is overlooked in all this is that faith is good only when it engages truth; when it is made to rest upon falsehood it can and often does lead to eternal tragedy. For it is not enough that we believe; we must believe the right thing about the right One."
 
Major said:
I guess the question is......did they really die?

No problem at all Abdicate. Doctrinally speaking, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

So we both agree that the spirit goes to Heaven and the body to the ground. My question I guess stems from the idea that God would allow a reverse of that action. That's all.
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If someone is dead for three minutes or three days, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, not if but when they return to their old bodies, why would they not retain at least a memory of what they experienced during that time... Paul, Daniel and John didn't know what happened to them and in the Hebrew there's evidence that Daniel died as well as Jonah who saw the bars of hell.

It's not an issue for me because it won't change what is already written in the word of God, but shows that what happen can happen again. Why else would so many different examples be given except to point out nothing is impossible in our lives here on earth by God through us.

My boss was in the hospital with cancer. My family and I were praying very much for him. He was a Unitarian and he often joked with me after many conversations about the Lord that if he went before I did that he would come back and tap me on the shoulder and let me know the truth. He said these things in jest but I knew he would end up in heaven. We had just been transferred to Belgium and my whole family was praying for him very regularly with great unction. One Saturday morning we all woke up and we had such great peace about him and none of us had the need to pray for him any longer, and we all said the same thing. That unction was gone. That afternoon his wife called and said that he had passed away that very morning. While we were talking about him, in midsentence I saw him in a vision and he looked at me smiled that cheesy smile that he had and he nodded his head at me . It lasted all of 5 seconds. That was it . Now what did I see? I saw that he got saved and the Lord allowed me to see a vision of just him... there was no communication except for that nod he promised . That brought a great deal of joy to me . What do you do with that?

The seven trumpet angles were fellow servants just like John, saints like him. Elijah and Moses were seen by Peter, James and John and overheard their conversation they had with Jesus about His death. You read and believe those stories of the scriptures but you don't believe these events continue today as they have since the garden of Eden. God has not changed, so what makes you think these things stopped based only on the fact you haven't experienced it for yourself? Do you need to see to believe? Don't be Thomas brother. Have faith.
 
Abdicate said:
If someone is dead for three minutes or three days, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, not if but when they return to their old bodies, why would they not retain at least a memory of what they experienced during that time... Paul, Daniel and John didn't know what happened to them and in the Hebrew there's evidence that Daniel died as well as Jonah who saw the bars of hell.

It's not an issue for me because it won't change what is already written in the word of God, but shows that what happen can happen again. Why else would so many different examples be given except to point out nothing is impossible in our lives here on earth by God through us.

My boss was in the hospital with cancer. My family and I were praying very much for him. He was a Unitarian and he often joked with me after many conversations about the Lord that if he went before I did that he would come back and tap me on the shoulder and let me know the truth. He said these things in jest but I knew he would end up in heaven. We had just been transferred to Belgium and my whole family was praying for him very regularly with great unction. One Saturday morning we all woke up and we had such great peace about him and none of us had the need to pray for him any longer, and we all said the same thing. That unction was gone. That afternoon his wife called and said that he had passed away that very morning. While we were talking about him, in midsentence I saw him in a vision and he looked at me smiled that cheesy smile that he had and he nodded his head at me . It lasted all of 5 seconds. That was it . Now what did I see? I saw that he got saved and the Lord allowed me to see a vision of just him... there was no communication except for that nod he promised . That brought a great deal of joy to me . What do you do with that?

The seven trumpet angles were fellow servants just like John, saints like him. Elijah and Moses were seen by Peter, James and John and overheard their conversation they had with Jesus about His death. You read and believe those stories of the scriptures but you don't believe these events continue today as they have since the garden of Eden. God has not changed, so what makes you think these things stopped based only on the fact you haven't experienced it for yourself? Do you need to see to believe? Don't be Thomas brother. Have faith.
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My faith here is not the issue my brother. You may not agree and that is fine with me.

I have to stick with what the Scriptures say. I here you and understand the need to believe this however, I will stick with the Bible fact that in our fallen human condition, if God were to fully reveal Himself to us, we would be consumed and destroyed. Therefore, God veils Himself and appears in forms in which we can “see” Him. However, this is different than seeing God with all His glory and holiness displayed. Yes, people have seen visions of God, images of God, the glory of God and appearances of the
pre-incarnate Christ, but no one has ever seen God in all His fullness as written in Exodus 33:20.

I can not change what is written, I can only accept it or reject it.
 
Major said:
My faith here is not the issue my brother. You may not agree and that is fine with me.

I have to stick with what the Scriptures say. I here you and understand the need to believe this however, I will stick with the Bible fact that in our fallen human condition, if God were to fully reveal Himself to us, we would be consumed and destroyed. Therefore, God veils Himself and appears in forms in which we can “see” Him. However, this is different than seeing God with all His glory and holiness displayed. Yes, people have seen visions of God, images of God, the glory of God and appearances of the
pre-incarnate Christ, but no one has ever seen God in all His fullness as written in Exodus 33:20.

I can not change what is written, I can only accept it or reject it.
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Your mixing threads...God bless major :)
 
Abdicate said:
If someone is dead for three minutes or three days, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, not if but when they return to their old bodies, why would they not retain at least a memory of what they experienced during that time... Paul, Daniel and John didn't know what happened to them and in the Hebrew there's evidence that Daniel died as well as Jonah who saw the bars of hell.

It's not an issue for me because it won't change what is already written in the word of God, but shows that what happen can happen again. Why else would so many different examples be given except to point out nothing is impossible in our lives here on earth by God through us.

My boss was in the hospital with cancer. My family and I were praying very much for him. He was a Unitarian and he often joked with me after many conversations about the Lord that if he went before I did that he would come back and tap me on the shoulder and let me know the truth. He said these things in jest but I knew he would end up in heaven. We had just been transferred to Belgium and my whole family was praying for him very regularly with great unction. One Saturday morning we all woke up and we had such great peace about him and none of us had the need to pray for him any longer, and we all said the same thing. That unction was gone. That afternoon his wife called and said that he had passed away that very morning. While we were talking about him, in midsentence I saw him in a vision and he looked at me smiled that cheesy smile that he had and he nodded his head at me . It lasted all of 5 seconds. That was it . Now what did I see? I saw that he got saved and the Lord allowed me to see a vision of just him... there was no communication except for that nod he promised . That brought a great deal of joy to me . What do you do with that?

The seven trumpet angles were fellow servants just like John, saints like him. Elijah and Moses were seen by Peter, James and John and overheard their conversation they had with Jesus about His death. You read and believe those stories of the scriptures but you don't believe these events continue today as they have since the garden of Eden. God has not changed, so what makes you think these things stopped based only on the fact you haven't experienced it for yourself? Do you need to see to believe? Don't be Thomas brother. Have faith.
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Your comment in the beginning of your post reminded me of a story from the Bible.
I have heard and believe (because of the story of the rich man and lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) that our spirits are the part of our bodies that hold all information and memory. The brain also does but when one dies, it is not the brain that goes to heaven (for it is in the ground with the body), but the spirit of a person.

Blessings
 
Abdicate said:
While we were talking about him, in midsentence I saw him in a vision and he looked at me smiled that cheesy smile that he had and he nodded his head at me . It lasted all of 5 seconds. That was it . Now what did I see? I saw that he got saved and the Lord allowed me to see a vision of just him... there was no communication except for that nod he promised . That brought a great deal of joy to me . What do you do with that?
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That is believable. But it is worlds apart from Don Piper's experience.
 
Major said:
My faith here is not the issue my brother. You may not agree and that is fine with me.

I have to stick with what the Scriptures say. I here you and understand the need to believe this however, I will stick with the Bible fact that in our fallen human condition, if God were to fully reveal Himself to us, we would be consumed and destroyed. Therefore, God veils Himself and appears in forms in which we can “see” Him. However, this is different than seeing God with all His glory and holiness displayed. Yes, people have seen visions of God, images of God, the glory of God and appearances of the
pre-incarnate Christ, but no one has ever seen God in all His fullness as written in Exodus 33:20.

I can not change what is written, I can only accept it or reject it.
Click to expand...
No one here has even hinted that they have seen God.
 
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